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karloevaristo
12-19-2011, 11:24 AM
Just wondering... Does mud/slurry really work? Is it really that important to develop mud during sharpening?

Does it even make any difference at all versus continuously splashing the stone with water? Is there like a study of some sort that proves that mud really aids in sharpening?

I know some members here don't even bother with mud/slurry. I for one have been using mud cause I've read threads about it before when I was just starting up and just decided to go with it even if I really didn't understand fully why...

I kinda get the picture a little bit, but I just wanted to really make things clearer... :thumbsup:

I have a hunch that it could really be that important, cause if it's not, I don't see the point of using naguras... (or does it depend if a stone is a slow cutter?)

Followup Question:
What's the component in waterstones that makes them slow or fast cutters?

Karlo

Eamon Burke
12-19-2011, 02:28 PM
Oh my gosh yes. It is abrasives suspended in water with swarf from the knife, and you can sometimes break picked down and get a different performance.

It is very important.

heirkb
12-19-2011, 02:38 PM
I'm more experienced with razors so I have a razor example, but the general idea applies well to knives.

A lot of people like to use a really really hard Japanese natural stone to finish their razors. The way some people do it is that they set their bevel on a 1k stone, and then they move on to the Japanese natural using different naguras (usually something like botan, to tenjyou, to meijiro, to tomonagura). I don't think you could ever get a good edge just jumping from a 1k to the finisher without those in-between steps with mud. Even with those steps, sometimes it's necessary to go back and refine the edge more before finishing on water alone.

With knives there is also the different finish that you can get when playing with mud as opposed to just water on the stone.

schanop
12-19-2011, 03:33 PM
I don't have any scientific back up, but for kasumi knives, the metal swarf from jigane when it forms with particle released from stone, both natural and synthetic, as mud seems to help in sharpening and polishing. It seems that cutting rate is a bit faster when I have dark mud with metal swarf in there, and it seems to polish finer too, with natural stone in particular.

Pensacola Tiger
12-19-2011, 05:11 PM
Just wondering... Does mud/slurry really work? Is it really that important to develop mud during sharpening?



With natural stones, it's very important, since the abrasive particles in the slurry will break down into smaller pieces and effectively give you a higher grit polish; with synthetic stones, not so much, since the particles are more resistant to breaking down. I flush a synthetic stone frequently to remove metal particles and expose a fresh abrasive surface.

tk59
12-19-2011, 05:51 PM
I haven't worried too much about slurry but Jon does wonders on single bevels. For the life of me, I cannot duplicate his finish.

JBroida
12-19-2011, 05:55 PM
slurry is important for a few reasons... the most important for me are an even, streak free finish through curves and for filling high and low spots (yeah, i cheat like this). However, i also like it for cutting speed.

On naturals, its necessary to build up slurry for grit refinement.

Cadillac J
12-20-2011, 12:35 PM
I love me some mud on Chosera 600 and Naniwa Super Stones, and even getting a bit going with my Bester...couldn't imagine sharpening without it.

A bit ago I decided to start using the nagura that came with my Chosera (one on the left) for all my stones including higher grits, and it quickly became my favorite for everything I have even over the specific nagura I purchased a long time ago just for polishing stones and the DMT mini snowboards in XC, C, F and EF that I got a month ago.

(funny thing is that even though I've never used a King before, I suspect its a piece of some King stone...maybe 800?)
http://i44.tinypic.com/2012gs6.jpg

Benuser
12-20-2011, 12:45 PM
The Chosera Nagura is said to be a 600 one.

Don Nguyen
12-20-2011, 01:35 PM
Nooooo wooonnnddeeerrr!!!!


I'm using a cheap two sided Naniwa - the 1000/3000. Doesn't have a slurry of any kind, and loads up with metal instantaneously. I always get streaks, and I thought it was super bad technique; maybe it is. I know for the most part though, the angle is relatively the same.

kalaeb
12-20-2011, 01:38 PM
Where did you get those dmt mini diamond naguras?

Cadillac J
12-20-2011, 02:09 PM
Where did you get those dmt mini diamond naguras?

This is where I got mine at, but looks like you can get them straight from the DMT site too.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2063644/24682/DMT-Mini-Diamond-Ski-and-Snowboard-Stone-Kit-of-3-Stones.aspx

rulesnut
12-20-2011, 03:42 PM
I find the Diaface Moonflex are much superior to the DMT.
http://www.diaface.com/contents/media/t_mini%20100_1%2bombra.jpg

mainaman
12-20-2011, 03:56 PM
+1 on what John said
my current most favorite low grit stone is a SS king 800, the muddiest and fastest thing I have seen so far.

geezr
12-20-2011, 04:39 PM
o/t - since I started sharpening knives over the stainless steel double sink in the kitchen one sink is noticeably shiner than the other side. because of this thread about mud/slurry I realize what has happened - will now also use the "other" sink to sharpen :biggrin:

heirkb
12-20-2011, 07:03 PM
+1 on what John said
my current most favorite low grit stone is a SS king 800, the muddiest and fastest thing I have seen so far.

SS King? Is that the standard King 800?

mainaman
12-20-2011, 07:15 PM
SS King? Is that the standard King 800?
no it is the New king for Stainless Steel, you can find them @ tools from japan
I used it on my honyaki yanagi and it worked super, very muddy very fast cutter.