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View Full Version : San Mai Elmax super steel with a damascus cladding.



HHH Knives
12-31-2011, 08:18 AM
OK this is to funny not to share, Even though at the time I didnt find much humor in what happened, at all! :fanning:

I am always challenging Randy Jr. to try new things. and to experiment. Pushing him so to speak to continue trying stuff and stretching his skill set.. (As any good day should do IMO) And as any kid should he often dont listen to me or takes one part of what I say and then does it his way.. lol God Bless him! :angel2:

This time I may have went to far. :O
I had a bar of Elmax stainless steel on my bench and told Jr he needed to sandwich it in between some damascus and make me a san mia bar! Which at the time seemed like a GREAT idea. lol you know, the beauty of damascus with a Elmax core. :D Man If we pull it off it would of been awesome kitchen cutter.. As Elmax has gotten RAVE reviews in the custom knife community as being one of the best powder stainless steels to date.

. Anyways, This time he listened to my silly suggestions. and put together a stack, of San Mai, and carefully prepared it to go into the forge. After a reasonable soak time he pulled that bar out and took it over to the forging press. Now you might be thinking,,,,,, this dont sound half bad. I gota try that.. :scared4: DONT DO IT! lol This is where the $HIT HIT THE FAN!!

At the point where the press touched the billet, MOLTEN STAINLESS started shooting out of the bar. spraying in all directions and all the way across my shop, bouncing off walls. I exaggerate not. It was like someone shot it out of a gun. and then there were little fires caused by it in 3 areas on my shop. Its was kinda scary! Thankfully, no one was hurt. And after it was all over, Jr and I both kinda got a chuckle out of it..

Now, I cant tell you that I wont be pushing him to try some other stupid crazy combination in the near future.. Because I probably will. and I have a feeling one of the combinations one day will be a winner. In the mean time.. I think we will stay away from the forge with Elmax!! lol


Thanks guys for all your support and help this year. This community is the best and I count myself as being blessed to be a part of it!
Happy New Year!
Randy

echerub
12-31-2011, 09:19 AM
Whoah... press and out squirted the molten steel? Definitely glad everyone's okay - and yeah, that's one of those things that makes a good story afterwards because everyone's okay :D

Happy New Year, Randy!

tk59
12-31-2011, 09:42 AM
Holy crap! I was expecting some pretty pics, lol! Glad you didn't lose more than the bar!

HHH Knives
12-31-2011, 10:14 AM
Yea, it was pretty crazy, molten metal flying in all directions. and Jr hit it with the press about 3 or 4 times B4 he realized the extant of what was happening. I hit the floor ducking for cover.lol then it was a mad dash to put out the fires and make sure there were gona be no more.. :(

tk59 were gona keep trying and working on a few other combinations. So some time soon there will be pretty pics :D

jmforge
12-31-2011, 10:52 AM
Yipe!!! What kind of press do you have? :lol2: I would not be inclined to forge Elmax or other PM stainless steels to begin with for fear of screwing up what the mill had worked so hard to get, but now I have another reason.:eek2: I'l stick with stock removal for that stuff.:biggrin:

ajhuff
12-31-2011, 11:16 AM
You must have been really hot then, eh?

-AJ

Delbert Ealy
12-31-2011, 11:33 AM
Sometimes you just have to learn these things for yourself. I read the title of the post and thought to myself, no way he's done this, and I have to admit that when I saw the line about molten stainless squirting out, I laughed. Not because it was funny, molten steel shooting at you is not funny(I know, I have had this happen too). There is a reason there are so few stainless steels used for damascus and for forging. The high alloy content in steels like elmax lowers the overall melting temperature of the steel, combined with the intense pressure from the press which lowers the melting temp even more explains what happened.
Thanks,
Del

PierreRodrigue
12-31-2011, 11:38 AM
Oh man! WOW! Glad you guys are all ok! Now I have to admit to giggling a bit picturing you guys running around putting out hot spots!

Lefty
12-31-2011, 12:13 PM
Yikes! Glad you two are ok!
This might sound like a dumb question, but is it possible to forge the elmax core at a lower temp, while having a separate bar (different material) for the cladding going at a higher temp, then sandwiching them together at two different temperatures? I have a feeling this isn't doable, but who knows. I'm guessing you'd need two forges and that the hotter cladding would affect the core temperature. I'm just curious....

Andrew H
12-31-2011, 12:16 PM
Glad you guys are okay, but imagine how amazing those pictures would have been :lol2:

jmforge
12-31-2011, 12:56 PM
Del, when you heat treat those super high alloy PM steels at 1900-1975, how close are you getting to the temperature where they will sinter/forge weld?
Sometimes you just have to learn these things for yourself. I read the title of the post and thought to myself, no way he's done this, and I have to admit that when I saw the line about molten stainless squirting out, I laughed. Not because it was funny, molten steel shooting at you is not funny(I know, I have had this happen too). There is a reason there are so few stainless steels used for damascus and for forging. The high alloy content in steels like elmax lowers the overall melting temperature of the steel, combined with the intense pressure from the press which lowers the melting temp even more explains what happened.
Thanks,
Del

HHH Knives
12-31-2011, 01:29 PM
I figured you guys would get a giggle reading this. and yea, Thank God everything and everyone is OK!! I even got a couple phone calls today from guys who were still laughing so hard they had to call and laugh at me in person! lolol Thanks guys!! :D

BUT, Like I said, I just cant leave well enough alone and am always pushing to try new stuff and or testing something.. If were not trying something new and exciting theres somethings missing in my shop. :D So im ordering some more elmax and a few others and gona keep up the R&D and continue on my quest to make some of the sickest most amazing san mia available!! Oh yes, We will! :)

But we wont make that mistake again! lol

Eamon Burke
12-31-2011, 01:35 PM
Hey, but you got to see it! I wish I'd seen it. Molten steel shooting out in every direction, starting fires. Sounds awesome.

jmforge
12-31-2011, 03:32 PM
Correction.....up to 2100 for some of the PM steels!!!!!!
Del, when you heat treat those super high alloy PM steels at 1900-1975, how close are you getting to the temperature where they will sinter/forge weld?

HHH Knives
12-31-2011, 07:41 PM
LOL, Yep, I was ducking for cover.. yelling at Jr. to stop.. It was sorta funny!

Back to the drawing board. I have a NEW plan.. Ill keep you guys updated and we should have something sweet to work with soon!! :)

HHH Knives
12-31-2011, 07:44 PM
Yikes! Glad you two are ok!
This might sound like a dumb question, but is it possible to forge the elmax core at a lower temp, while having a separate bar (different material) for the cladding going at a higher temp, then sandwiching them together at two different temperatures? I have a feeling this isn't doable, but who knows. I'm guessing you'd need two forges and that the hotter cladding would affect the core temperature. I'm just curious....

Lefty, Thanks for the suggestion, I dont think that would work. Stainless is tricky and needs special treatment when forge welding it. But who am I to give advise, after this post! LOL

kalaeb
12-31-2011, 07:54 PM
You guys need to get a webcam going. Lol.

ajhuff
12-31-2011, 08:08 PM
LOL, Yep, I was ducking for cover.. yelling at Jr. to stop.. It was sorta funny!

Back to the drawing board. I have a NEW plan.. Ill keep you guys updated and we should have something sweet to work with soon!! :)

LOL! Yeah liquid metal squirting at you under pressure is only funny AFTER the fact. BTDT.

-AJ

Eamon Burke
01-01-2012, 06:06 AM
You guys need to get a webcam going. Lol.

The HHH Knives SURVIVORCAM

Shepherd
01-07-2012, 03:25 PM
Guys on the west coast had the same thing happen with their initial workings of timascus

Mike Davis
01-08-2012, 07:10 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! How did i miss this thread!!!?!?!?!?! Sorry to hear about the insanity Randy, but it is pretty funny. Glad you guys(Both Randy's AND the equipment) are safe. I second the SurvivorCam!!!

Randy Jr
01-08-2012, 08:47 PM
Yeah it was great! but a survivorcam needs to be intalled asap, possibly a helmet cam that i could wear or it might be funnier if dad had it on so you guys could see the liquid steel flying at the camera! Get out your 3-d goggles cuz this is gonna be exciting!:lol2:

jmforge
01-08-2012, 10:52 PM
I have heard of that happening with monument, but not very often with steel.