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View Full Version : Who makes a cleaver with a "point"?



454Casull
01-10-2012, 12:15 PM
Most, if not all, commercially-available cleavers have a square "point". I'm looking for one with tapered point, perhaps with a cutout 15-30 degrees from the vertical. It seems like this would make it more versatile.

Of course, as a scraper it would not function as effectively, but if the blade is 7-9" long, there's more than enough scraping surface to begin with.

echerub
01-10-2012, 12:36 PM
From your description I'm picturing something like a vertically-stretched kiritsuke/kensaki-type tip on a cleaver. If that's the case, nothing off-the-shelf comes to mind, but I think any of the custom makers who make cleavers would be able to craft a version that matches what you have in mind.

With regards to the squared off tips... that far corner on the cleaver is actually pretty fine. Really fine, actually, on a good cleaver - I just happen to have 3 handy right here and checked one :) - and does any kind of regular gyuto tip work that I've tried without issue.

heirkb
01-10-2012, 12:47 PM
Doesn't Mike (mhenry) have a huge Butch Harner gyuto/kiritsuke/cleaver combo knife for sale in the BST? You might want to look at that. I think it was priced pretty well.

TB_London
01-10-2012, 01:53 PM
Like this?

http://www.chefsmall.net/images/cck/KF2201.jpg
http://www.chefsmall.net/CCK-Chinese-Butchers-Knife-Butcher-Knives-XL

Eamon Burke
01-10-2012, 04:42 PM
The point on a Chinese cleaver is not un-versatile. It's useful for so many different things. You can do some really intricate stuff with one, you just can't bridge your left hand over the spine of the knife, unless your fingers are freakishly long or the food is really big.

JohnnyChance
01-10-2012, 04:56 PM
The point on a Chinese cleaver is not un-versatile. It's useful for so many different things. You can do some really intricate stuff with one, you just can't bridge your left hand over the spine of the knife, unless your fingers are freakishly long or the food is really big.

I hate the bridge/pinch the product with the left hand maneuver.

schanop
01-10-2012, 05:04 PM
How about Maestro Wu? It is probably on the smaller side of the scale compared with 220x110 size that many people use.
http://www.kochmesser-shop.com/images/categories/maestro-wu-damast-158.jpg
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/maestro-wu-vegetable-cleaver.jpg

JohnnyChance
01-10-2012, 05:48 PM
Just buy a regular cleaver, send it to Dave, and have him grind in the giant kiritsuke style tip with a belt sander.

SpikeC
01-10-2012, 06:01 PM
Or just grind it in on your King 500!

454Casull
01-10-2012, 06:50 PM
Like this?

http://www.chefsmall.net/images/cck/KF2201.jpg
http://www.chefsmall.net/CCK-Chinese-Butchers-Knife-Butcher-Knives-XL
Nah, I'm talking about something that would look like a vertically-stretched kiritsuke as someone mentioned above.

454Casull
01-10-2012, 06:51 PM
How about Maestro Wu? It is probably on the smaller side of the scale compared with 220x110 size that many people use.
http://www.kochmesser-shop.com/images/categories/maestro-wu-damast-158.jpg
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/maestro-wu-vegetable-cleaver.jpg
Yeah, like that, except similar in size to a regular cleaver.

DeepCSweede
01-10-2012, 07:18 PM
My grandfather had an old cleaver he used that I believe was an Utica that had a bit of an edge on the front. I don't remember how much. I looked for it a couple of years after he passed away, but never could locate it.

Seb
01-10-2012, 08:40 PM
Get a custom from Ashi Hamono - they will pretty much do whatever you want at a very reasonable cost. You can use JKI or BWJ - they both have a connect with Ashi.

half_hack
01-10-2012, 09:14 PM
to the OP, have you used a cleaver much? I only ask because when I'm using mine, like echerub, I hardly ever find myself wanting more of a point. I find the sharp corner versatile enough for me.

l r harner
01-10-2012, 10:09 PM
i ll put a pack man mouth o a cleaver for you :)

really tho it would not be much a problem to build somethingk like that or even mod a cleaver to have a "tip"

Noodle Soup
01-11-2012, 09:43 AM
I've been told that the ones with the slanted point are a traditional Taiwan style of cleaver but all I've seen seem to run a little smaller than the rectangular models. In any case, I think they make excellent general purpose utility knives for most Asian cooking. I have one of the Maestro Wu's and a couple of others I have picked up here and there.

chazmtb
01-11-2012, 03:03 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Chefs-Knife-21-Kom/dp/B001JL2NMC


Can it be a Thai style cleaver/chef's knife like this?


3618

Justin0505
01-11-2012, 04:51 PM
Before I bought/used my first slicing cleaver aka Chinese chefs knife I also spent some time looking around for a "cleaver with a tip. "
But then I actually used one and came to the same realization that others have already mentioned: the traditional corner / tip is actually pretty darn agile once your technique adapts to the tool.

Even just a little thing like beveling the nose back a few degrees is going to change the dynamics and feel of the tool. The tip will lose some strength and the balance point is going to change. You may get a slight drag reduction in some applications like making horizontal cuts in onion, chopped but it may increase the tendency to "lift and separate" onion layers on the vertical upstroke. It will also make scraping the board with the nose more awkward.

My recomendation would be to buy a CCK, but use it "stock" for awhile then send it to Butch, Dave, or your choice of custom maker for a nose job (and to maybe smooth /even the bevel behind the edge while they've got by the grinder).

Then, let us know what you think of the before/after. This would probably be the cheapest and most scientific method to see if you like it better. Then you can sell or keep the test knife and order a custom later.

chuck239
01-11-2012, 11:25 PM
Or you can do the opposite. I have a Butch Harner Cleaver with a rounded tip that works very well. I like the shape more then my standard Chinese Cleaver but I do not use it nearly enough. I wish it got more use then it does.

-Chuck

edit: Butch makes a hell of a cleaver

454Casull
01-18-2012, 02:58 AM
Yes, I have used a Chinese cleaver for many years. So have my parents. I was born into a fairly traditional Chinese family.

Now that that's out of the way, I will state that I prefer being able to concentrate more pressure (and therefore more cutting power) on the tip area for cuts where I am not able to freely start a slice. For example, the vertical cuts in an onion to start a mince; the tip must go straight down. For an edge that is not perfectly maintained, this is less than easy if the edge needs to remain parallel to the board as it does with a square-front cleaver.

Somebody mentioned a reduction in tip strength. That's the last thing I have on my mind considering that most kitchen knives have tips much, much sharper and nobody complains about those.

echerub
01-18-2012, 09:49 AM
I will state that I prefer being able to concentrate more pressure (and therefore more cutting power) on the tip area for cuts where I am not able to freely start a slice. For example, the vertical cuts in an onion to start a mince; the tip must go straight down. For an edge that is not perfectly maintained, this is less than easy

I have to admit I'm confused by this here. I use nakiri and cleavers all the time to mince onions, garlic, and shallots without issue. The blade goes straight down on vertical cuts, no slicing in the motion. I have never had any issues and don't see what difference a pointed tip would make there.

The edge doesn't need to be perfect, but it certainly needs to be sharp. If it's an issue of keeping an edge in good condition, I think that's a very different thing from having a point or not :)

454Casull
01-19-2012, 11:07 PM
If you can tilt the blade upwards, the tip cuts better due to there being greater pressure.

SpikeC
01-19-2012, 11:15 PM
I think that we need a video to see what this means.