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DevinT
01-13-2012, 07:06 PM
I am curently experimenting with some steels in the super wear resistant range.

Up until now I've used steels that have good/great wear resistant properties with the greatest edge stablity and ease of sharpening.

The SWRS wil be hard to sharpen but will hold an edge for an extremely long time. They should have good edge stablity due to the powder metal process. They are a tool steel and not stainless. I'm making these in sanmai to make them easier to finish for me and the stainless clad will will hold up better in the kitchen.

We did some heat treat testing and some destructive testing and I'm very, very impressed.

I'm looking for some input on this so please chime in.

Hoss

P.S. I will have a couple of these for sale at the Vegas show.

tk59
01-13-2012, 07:12 PM
Aw man... I'm very, very curious! Decisions, decisions... I want to try sharpening one on stones before I decide to get something like this but sounds very cool.

DevinT
01-13-2012, 07:15 PM
Aw man... I'm very, very curious! Decisions, decisions... I want to try sharpening one on stones before I decide to get something like this but sounds very cool.

You should bring some of your sharpening stones to Vegas and try it out.

Hoss

tk59
01-13-2012, 07:18 PM
You should bring some of your sharpening stones to Vegas and try it out.

Hoss

Deal!:bliss:

ajhuff
01-13-2012, 11:45 PM
Back in my previous life we used to make the bulk of our foundry patterns out of cast iron with a wear coat of either hard chrome or nickel, nickel being superior. Later we transition into D2 tool steel which was an order of magnitude better than nickel. Expensive though so it was reserved for higher volume stuff, around 250,000 cycles or so. For the mega runners, the 500,000 or 750,000 cycle, even a million cycles we used PH13. Awesome stuff for wear. Down side was you had to be sure your pattern was absolutely perfect before you heat treated it because once it went to heat treat there was no going back. No engineering changes, no machining, no drilling, nothing.

It sounds like your steel is a step past that. So one concern I would address would be the angle of the edge. I imagine once it is set, it would be near impossible to change it. That's probably educating your customer issue. It also means either you need to choose wisely or your customer needs to be sure he chooses wisely.

The other concern I suspect would be the actual sharpening. I would have doubts that traditional stones would do the job. I remember back when I had to polish sapphire windows for engines it was diamond media only. The final stages were not that hard and I imagine restoring an edge on the knife would also not be that difficult, with the correct media. I imagine these knives might be similar in that stones might not be the best option and diamond media preferable or required. Probably just need a single diamond plate though, not a range of them. Again, a customer education issue.

Finally, I think with the difficulty in creating an edge to begin with, the knife would have to be supplied with the best OOTB edge possible from you since the end user would not really truly be sharpening the knife but rather just restoring the edge.

Those are the things that come to my mind. Sounds like a neat project.

-AJ

Hattorichop
01-14-2012, 02:31 AM
All I can say is that out of all my knives (even my Devin Thomas ITK) my Tanaka R2 which is a PM steel has the best edge retention of them all. It also sharpens up quit easily. IMO it is the best steel for knife making.

jmforge
01-14-2012, 02:39 AM
Hoss, if you have found a super wear resistant steel that can take the kind of edge that you demand in your knives, then I think this can only be a good thing. I know that steel like CPM M4 has incredible wear resistance and great edge stability at what is considered to be quite a fine edge in some pretty brutal applications like cutting comps, but I have no clue as to how absolutely fine of an edge it or other stuff like 3V will take. It will be interesting to hear what you find out.

JohnnyChance
01-14-2012, 02:49 AM
P.S. I will have a couple of these for sale at the Vegas show.


You should bring some of your sharpening stones to Vegas and try it out.

Bring your checkbook too TK. There are worse ways to rid yourself of money in Vegas.

I really love the edge retention of your AEB-L. And I think your mystery PM steel is significantly better than your AEB-L. So if we are talking about a large jump over the PM, this will be quite something. You might need nicknames (like you have for Spicy White) for all these secret steels so that we can keep them straight!

BraisedorStewed
01-14-2012, 03:33 AM
Of the knives I own, the only one that has crazy edge retention is a Harner in CPM154. I find it a difficult knife to sharpen, after a few times on the stones I was able to get a good edge on it. In order to do this I dropped down to a 320 Shapton Pro, I was a bit weary to do this from the beginning, I was able to form a nice burr then went to a Shapton 1k. Then I jumped to a Kitayama, previously I had used a Suehiro 5K but never liked where this got me. The softer stone never felt right on that steel. The edge was still not as sharp as most of the other knives I sharpen, but the edge held at about 90% for a few days without any noticeable difference. In the end it was a bit tricky for me but the time spent on the stones was more than made up for over the next few days. Just my 2 cents, the perspective of a relatively novice sharpener.

tk59
04-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Interesting. I didn't have any problems sharpening Harner cpm154. I thought it was fairly easy to sharpen, enjoyable, even. I also didn't thing it had crazy edge retention, although it was very nice in that regard.

Anyway, I just did my first profile fix on a DT-super gyuto. I started by sawing on a coarse stone to get out a hole in the edge. I sawed for several minutes and the damn thing still has a slight hole. Then I spent 15 min grinding an edge back on it with a 1.2 k sigma II. That wasn't a lot of steel either. It is a VERY thin knife near the edge. Now THAT is wear resistance, folks. That stuff is CRAZY.

El Pescador
04-09-2012, 08:43 PM
The edge on my 230 suji is holding up great.

Deckhand
04-09-2012, 09:34 PM
All I can say is that out of all my knives (even my Devin Thomas ITK) my Tanaka R2 which is a PM steel has the best edge retention of them all. It also sharpens up quit easily. IMO it is the best steel for knife making.

I think he just passed away.

ThEoRy
04-09-2012, 10:42 PM
I think he just passed away.

What?

shankster
04-09-2012, 10:49 PM
There's news that Mr Tanaka has passed away...

Mingooch
04-09-2012, 11:50 PM
I hope Tanaka didnt pass away, that would be a sad day for knife nuts everywhere.

On the PM steel note, I have an Itou in R2 and love it. Easy to sharpen, edge last a really long time. My favorite steel so far.

James
04-09-2012, 11:58 PM
I hope Tanaka didnt pass away, that would be a sad day for knife nuts everywhere.

On the PM steel note, I have an Itou in R2 and love it. Easy to sharpen, edge last a really long time. My favorite steel so far.

There's a topic in the other forum informing us about the news. It's a very sad day indeed.

Deckhand
04-10-2012, 12:05 AM
What?
Yes, unfortunate but true.

tk59
05-01-2012, 12:07 PM
I thought I'd give a little update on my experience with Devin's super wear resistant steel. This stuff is tougher to sharpen than other DT steels but the edge is holding very well under all conditions except one, so far. I was cutting basically all day on Sunday, periodically testing the edge on tomatoes. Like almost all steels, it lost a bit of sharpness almost immediately and settled into a very nice toothy edge. It survived cutting all kinds of things (not bone, frozen, etc) but plenty of cantaloupe, pineapple, and poly board contact. The only part that seemed to degrade the edge noticeably was torquing it every time it stuck in the poly board while peeling cantaloupe. Even then, you could only tell the difference on tomatoes, really. The last thing I cut that day was chives and they push-cut apart effortlessly a la kcma and with very little bruising. Next time I make salsa, I'll strop on some diamond and cut the tomatoes first. :)

Lucretia
05-02-2012, 02:04 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that I got an 210mm AEB-L ITK gyuto back in February and it still hasn't seen the stones. It's not getting used every day, but still--DANG that thing is holding its edge. Every time I use it I check the edge--maybe strop it on some cork, and it still shaves paper. Without a doubt the most impressive knife I have so far for edge retention. And yes, I'm kicking myself every day for not grabbing the 150mm petty at the same time. Sounds like there needs to be a PM San Mai in my future...

For my type of use, given the way the AEB-L is holding up, I don't know that I'd want to lose ease of sharpening for extra edge rentention. Assuming the AEB-L sharpens well. The way things are going, it may be another couple months before I find out.

Justin0505
05-03-2012, 12:05 AM
The funny thing about this thread is that I got an 210mm AEB-L ITK gyuto back in February and it still hasn't seen the stones. It's not getting used every day, but still--DANG that thing is holding its edge. Every time I use it I check the edge--maybe strop it on some cork, and it still shaves paper. Without a doubt the most impressive knife I have so far for edge retention. And yes, I'm kicking myself every day for not grabbing the 150mm petty at the same time. Sounds like there needs to be a PM San Mai in my future...

For my type of use, given the way the AEB-L is holding up, I don't know that I'd want to lose ease of sharpening for extra edge rentention. Assuming the AEB-L sharpens well. The way things are going, it may be another couple months before I find out.

I have an ITK cleaver in AEB-L and feel the same way. The edge takes a lot more force on a big cleaver thank on a small gyuto, but it still holds up amazingly well and also comes back to life very, very easily with just a little stropping. It's the best stainless steel that I've used to date. I haven't like any of the SWR steels that I've tried simply because I didn't feel that the extra edge retention made up for the extra hassle when it came to touch-ups or sharpening. That said, I was so impressed with his treatment of AEB-L that it makes me want to try the SWR just too see how WR steel can really be.

tk59
05-03-2012, 12:20 AM
Yeah. I agree. Devin's flavor of AEB-L is my first choice when ultimate sharpness and toughness is favored over wear-resistance. The swr is really only a great option if you don't ever want to sharpen or if you're happy with a fairly coarse edge. The pm stainless is a nice middle ground, I'd say.

mattrud
05-03-2012, 03:10 AM
Yeah. I agree. Devin's flavor of AEB-L is my first choice when ultimate sharpness and toughness is favored over wear-resistance. The swr is really only a great option if you don't ever want to sharpen or if you're happy with a fairly coarse edge. The pm stainless is a nice middle ground, I'd say.

I will give you my thoughts on the three in a couple weeks. But D*mn do I want to own some more knives from Hoss besides my itk.

TB_London
05-03-2012, 07:46 AM
But D*mn do I want to own some more knives from Hoss besides my itk.

That's exactly how I feel.
Managed to keep my ITK sharp enough just by stropping it for a long time, give it a full progression on the stones and then back to stropping for touch ups again. I think I've only been through all the stones 2-3 times in the whole time I've owned it. I'm just a home cook and I have a few gyutos to choose from but it's an easy knife to keep an edge on.

tk59
05-04-2012, 12:02 AM
...But D*mn do I want to own some more knives from Hoss besides my itk.+1. Devin makes great cutting knives and they don't look too bad, either. :)

eshua
05-04-2012, 12:59 AM
I tend to sharpen each sat night when I'm locking up, and I always have to sharpen my carter, but my dt I only do it because its so easy its fun.

While I'm finishing up I always tell my self...man this carter feels great...love the balance the big wa handle vs the dt western ect...I'm gona start using this a lot more...but 2-3 days into the work week I just get angry with it because the edge is dying, the tip isn't thin, the whole thing cuts like its thicker than the dt, but it still flexes more.

Its probably my terrible sharpening but I'm about ready to lose the carter and ask DT to make me one that looks just like it , but cuts and sharpens like his.

AEB-L may have less wear resist than some of his others, but it beats out a lot of my other knives.

tk59
05-04-2012, 01:09 AM
I tend to sharpen each sat night when I'm locking up, and I always have to sharpen my carter, but my dt I only do it because its so easy its fun.

While I'm finishing up I always tell my self...man this carter feels great...love the balance the big wa handle vs the dt western ect...I'm gona start using this a lot more...but 2-3 days into the work week I just get angry with it because the edge is dying, the tip isn't thin, the whole thing cuts like its thicker than the dt, but it still flexes more.

Its probably my terrible sharpening but I'm about ready to lose the carter and ask DT to make me one that looks just like it , but cuts and sharpens like his.

AEB-L may have less wear resist than some of his others, but it beats out a lot of my other knives.

I dunno how long you've had your Carter but mine was awesome when I bought it. About a year later, I sent it to a pro who used it for a few weeks and it came back feeling like a POS. I thinned out the secondary bevels and now it's feeling fairly close to the way it performed out of the box. I don't know if you've tried that but it sounds like you definitely need it. As for Devin's AEB-L, it's a bit of a freak. I've tried AEB-L by a couple of other manufacturers and while they all sharpen up quite nicely, Devin's holds an edge noticeably longer.

eshua
05-04-2012, 05:18 AM
Guess I can try thinning. If I don't get the job done...maybe you can recommend someone who can take a more experienced look at it...don't wan to clog up this thread anymore though.

El Pescador
05-04-2012, 02:27 PM
I really like the SWR but it doesn't seem to get as sharp as his carbon mystery steel.

kalaeb
05-04-2012, 02:32 PM
I really like the SWR but it doesn't seem to get as sharp as his carbon mystery steel.

+1,I am about to try the pm, but the mystery carbon is a dream, both on retention and overall sharpness.

tk59
05-04-2012, 06:05 PM
+1,I am about to try the pm, but the mystery carbon is a dream, both on retention and overall sharpness.+1. I think I might like it better than 52100. I wonder if the performance of the clad mystery carbon is different than the monosteel.

El Pescador
05-04-2012, 07:14 PM
+1. I think I might like it better than 52100. I wonder if the performance of the clad mystery carbon is different than the monosteel.

Sounds like my DT "Dark Side" Gyuto needs to travel south for a Battle Royale!

Lucretia
05-12-2012, 01:37 AM
Thought I might need to sharpen the AEB-L for the first time this morning, but first pulled out the hone and stropped it on a piece of wood and a cork. The freaking thing is sharper than ever.

tk59
05-12-2012, 01:41 AM
Is it Devin's stock edge?

Lucretia
05-12-2012, 02:00 AM
It's as it came from EE--don't know the answer to that.

tk59
05-12-2012, 02:02 AM
I doubt they resharpened the knife after they got it from Devin. Devin's edges are very toothy and aggressive. That type of edge will last you a long time if you treat it right.