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View Full Version : Niolox/SB1 anyone?



tk59
01-15-2012, 12:28 PM
I don't know how much interest there might be but I've had a few requests to try out a Niolox blade over the last few months. I recently bought a second quality blade from Rottman that I was thinking of refinishing/modifying and I thought I'd let some people play with it before I get too attached. As it stands, it is a right-handed ground 240 mm hybrid "gyuji" with a largish wa-handle at 62 ish hrc. He also made a left-handed version for himself with a crude, smallish western style handle that he agreed to let me borrow, if there are any lefties that are interested. Again, these are not meant to be representative of his work since they really aren't particularly well finished but it's an opportunity to try out a difficult to obtain steel.

tk59
01-15-2012, 01:41 PM
FYI, Niolox is also known as SB1.

El Pescador
01-15-2012, 01:41 PM
Do I count?

tk59
01-15-2012, 01:46 PM
Haha. Of course.

heirkb
01-15-2012, 02:11 PM
I would like to try that right handed gyuji. Thanks, TK.

Pabloz
01-15-2012, 03:17 PM
Me Too?

tk59
01-15-2012, 03:56 PM
That's two righties and a lefty, unless I'm mistaken.

Lefty
01-15-2012, 04:04 PM
I'm a lefty, so I hope you mean two lefties and two righties :D

Pabloz
01-15-2012, 04:17 PM
I'm a righty so is Pescy the other lefty??

El Pescador
01-15-2012, 05:27 PM
Damn straight.

chuck239
01-15-2012, 06:54 PM
I'm a lefty an would be interested.

-Chuck

K-Fed
01-15-2012, 10:21 PM
Lefty here too... and also interested.

JohnnyChance
01-15-2012, 10:27 PM
Damn all the lefties are coming out of the woodwork for this one.

A normal, err I mean right handed, version for me please.

tk59
01-15-2012, 10:31 PM
Wow. Lots of lefties! Hey Chuck, I'm not sure you read the "smallish" handle part, lol. The handle on this one is probably going to completely disappear into your particular set of mitts.

tk59
01-17-2012, 10:24 AM
I'll be contacting everyone who is interested next week to set the rules, get your contact information and figure out timing. If anyone else is interested, you've got a few more days to decide.

Lefty
01-17-2012, 11:00 AM
As much as I'd like to try it, I think I might have to pull my name from the "interested list". If I receive another mystery box of bladed devices, my wife might turn me into the cops!

chuck239
01-17-2012, 03:36 PM
Wow. Lots of lefties! Hey Chuck, I'm not sure you read the "smallish" handle part, lol. The handle on this one is probably going to completely disappear into your particular set of mitts.

hahah yes, I saw the smallish handle part you ass.

RobinW
01-24-2012, 08:18 PM
I'm a lefty and if i can expect the knife within 3 month i'm interested. If longer i'll have moved back to Sweden....
Thanks

tk59
01-25-2012, 07:40 PM
Well then, maybe you can ship it back to Germany direct from Sweden. :)

tk59
01-26-2012, 06:31 PM
Alright! I the knives are off to chuck239 and JohnnyChance. The righty is going to heirkb then kalaeb then Pabloz. I think K-Fed gets the lefty next. I'm still waiting to hear back from some of the lefties.

Eamon Burke
01-28-2012, 12:24 PM
Wait, so there is a non-lefty version? I think I misread this. I only abstained because I'm not a lefty.

Did I miss a perfectly good passaround? :crytissue:

tk59
01-28-2012, 01:29 PM
Wait, so there is a non-lefty version? I think I misread this. I only abstained because I'm not a lefty.

Did I miss a perfectly good passaround? :crytissue:Haha. There, there. I'll put you in after Pabloz.

Eamon Burke
01-28-2012, 02:47 PM
Hooray!

tk59
01-28-2012, 04:01 PM
:)

JohnnyChance
01-31-2012, 05:13 PM
I received the Rottman yesterday. Bringing it to work tmrw, sharpening and maybe cutting some stuff tonight as well. And if you are all lucky, some pictures as well.

K-Fed
02-05-2012, 09:34 PM
I received the Rottman yesterday. Bringing it to work tmrw, sharpening and maybe cutting some stuff tonight as well. And if you are all lucky, some pictures as well.

So...... Pics? ;-)

tk59
02-05-2012, 10:32 PM
Chuck's had the other one for a bit, as well...

kalaeb
02-08-2012, 09:14 AM
are we lucky enough to get pics?

chuck239
02-08-2012, 07:26 PM
I'll be sending it off soon. I will post some comments on it. But I must say, I will probably be buying a knife after using this.

-Chuck

tk59
02-08-2012, 10:34 PM
Sounds good. I'm relieved I'm not the only one that likes this stuff. :)

heirkb
02-14-2012, 12:56 PM
Any news?

kalaeb
03-02-2012, 02:41 AM
Any idea where these are at?

JohnnyChance
03-02-2012, 02:46 AM
The Righty Rottman is on it's way to Matt.

K-Fed
03-08-2012, 09:29 PM
Got the knife today. profile/ geometry look pretty sweet.

stevenStefano
03-09-2012, 06:14 PM
Could we be so lucky as to get some pics? :knife:

WillC
03-09-2012, 07:04 PM
Would love to hear some reports of how the steel performs on this, having seen some pretty impressive video's of a thin sb1 blade hacking through bone and still shaving. So whats the steel like, nice to sharpen? fine edge? edge holding?

K-Fed
03-09-2012, 09:12 PM
I'll take some pics and post my thoughts after a couple more days with it. Used it a good deal today and initial impressions are pretty damn good. I touched up the edge on a 5k chosera and the 10k that dave used to sell followed by a light stropping. Shaved quite easily after the touchup and still feels like it could after a days use on poly boards.

K-Fed
03-11-2012, 03:15 PM
snapped some pics today at work ( still here, on break ) and will post them tonight when I get home.

K-Fed
03-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Here is a pic with a couple of my favorite western handled chef knives. for comparison. The knife in question is on the bottom.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0064.jpg

A shot of the tips. It is very close to my glestain in profile. Something that for me is a great thing as the glestain has my favorite profile of all of my knives with the Sab in a close second.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0065.jpg

Handle

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0066.jpg

Spine

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0067.jpg

Handle top side

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0068.jpg

stevenStefano
03-12-2012, 07:25 AM
Thanks for the pictures

K-Fed
03-16-2012, 11:39 AM
Who is next in line for the lefty western?

RobinW
03-16-2012, 12:01 PM
Well, I'm waiting for it, but i don't know if i'm next....

K-Fed
03-17-2012, 09:42 PM
Yup just got confirmation... You're next =) I'll get it out this week. probably Wednesday

RobinW
03-17-2012, 09:45 PM
Looking forward to it. Sent a PM with address. Let me know if it doesn't arrive.

Thanks

tk59
03-17-2012, 09:46 PM
Thanks for keeping this moving, K-Fed!

K-Fed
03-18-2012, 12:00 PM
Robin, question. Would you like me to touch up the edge on the knife before I ship it out or is this something you would like to do to get a better feel for the steel?

RobinW
03-18-2012, 04:08 PM
Feel free to touch it up. I'm always interested in comparing my edges with others....

Thanks

K-Fed
03-21-2012, 05:39 PM
The knife is on its way. Should be there on Monday.

RobinW
03-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Knife received!

Looking forward to putting it to use.

Just so i know, whos next after me (or do i get to keep it?:doublethumbsup:)

Thanks for the passarounbd by the way?

tk59
03-30-2012, 08:21 PM
Knife received!

Looking forward to putting it to use.

Just so i know, whos next after me (or do i get to keep it?:doublethumbsup:)

Thanks for the passarounbd by the way?
I'll send you a pm on this. Glad you enjoyed the passaround. :)

The righty is with heirkb, at the moment.

heirkb
03-31-2012, 04:59 PM
I'm planning on sending the right handed knife out on Tuesday if that's ok with everyone. That'd give me a few more chances to play with it and would be the best day for me to get to the post office.

kalaeb
04-06-2012, 11:04 PM
Righty received today. Looking forward to using it tomorrow.

JohnnyChance
04-07-2012, 02:33 AM
Sorry for the late "thoughts" but here they are:

Overall, an excellent knife. Profile looked a little...different, but performed excellently. I guess when I think of a "gyuji" I more or less picture a gyuto with a slightly shortened height. This is more of a tall suji profile, so the front half is curved, well suited for slicing (and rocking) and the back is taller and a little flatter for normal gyuto duties. Still fairly curved, so not perfect for straight chopping, but for the utility nature of a line knife the profile works great. Steel was very nice, comparable to AEB-L and other high quality stainless steels. Sharpened up nicely, burr removal was not a problem, held the edge well. Handle was nice, could use a little more taper. Cutting performance was excellent, one of the very best performing convex ground knives I have used. The knife is very thin and fairly flexible, but the distal taper is not drastic so it isn't too whippy. The only complaint I have is that spine is rounded, but some of the deeper lower grit scratch marks from the initial rounding were not taken out and the spine feels rough in some areas. I took a picture of it and sadly, appears to be the only picture I have of the knife before I sent it out.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4kBgrj6Be-k/T3-8NUr0lSI/AAAAAAAABdk/8GtL-rX4lBg/s1024/IMG_1413.JPG

tk59
04-07-2012, 09:57 AM
Thanks, JC. Just for the record, this is a second for a few reasons, the scratches begin one of them.

Pabloz
04-14-2012, 11:25 PM
The righty just arrived. Here are pics right after unpacking.

6116611761186119

First impressions:

Nice fit and finish. Blade has a really sweet right hand bias. This can clearly be seen from the scuff marks from previous sharpenings. The only real scuff on the left side was at the tip blade. Beatiful handle. Horn and wood have shrunk slightly, which is to be expected from natural products, but I would also expect it to swell back out when it gets home on the west coast. I would like a brass spacer at the rear also. The blade has a very nice consistent mat finish from a vertical scratch pattern. Matt put a fresh edge before shipping and it sliced through tissue (catalog print) easily and quietly. It had a small bend it the tip that cleaned up OK on the strop board. Next I cut about 5 large mushrooms with no resistance and very little sticking. Next cut 3 large red potatos w/ some sticking. Sorry no tomatoes available today. I would still say that is has excellent food release from the textured convex grind. The convex grind on this, IMO, is very smooth and consistent at about a 400 grit finish. To me this is a very light, nimble & agile knife weighing in at exactly 170 grams. The balance point is dead on at the heal of the blade. At this point in time, all I can say is THIS WOULD BE A REALLY EASY KNIFE TO OWN!!!!

Done for tonight...More to follow.

PZ

JohnnyChance
04-14-2012, 11:42 PM
I put the sharpening scratches there. In a rush, lost my concentration...I think that is the only time I have ever done that, haha. I broke the tip too, it was bent and blunted, so the scratches on the left side are from removing the bent part before restoring the tip from the spine down.

tk59
04-15-2012, 12:20 AM
Gee, JC. Thanks for adding some... uh... character to my knife! Maybe I'll do a WIP on the restoration, lol. I'll be sure to return the favor sometime. How about you send me that Rader? I'll make sure Pesky gets a turn with it. :)

JohnnyChance
04-15-2012, 12:25 AM
Gee, JC. Thanks for adding some... uh... character to my knife! Maybe I'll do a WIP on the restoration, lol. I'll be sure to return the favor sometime. How about you send me that Rader? I'll make sure Pesky gets a turn with it. :)

I think I have broken the tip and put scuff marks on every knife you have ever lent me sooooo...I was just keeping the streak alive.

Andrew H
04-15-2012, 12:25 AM
Gee, JC. Thanks for adding some... uh... character to my knife! Maybe I'll do a WIP on the restoration, lol. I'll be sure to return the favor sometime. How about you send me that Rader? I'll make sure Pesky gets a turn with it. :)

Obviously JC was just testing the durability and wear resistance of the steel. :rofl2:

Pabloz
04-15-2012, 02:12 AM
TK...I can try and clean it up some....with your permission.

tk59
04-15-2012, 01:46 PM
TK...I can try and clean it up some....with your permission.The pics I've seen of some of your work look much better than mine. If you'd like to do that, be my guest but to be totally honest, it will probably be undergoing some modification once it makes it back home. Thanks.

kalaeb
04-16-2012, 12:31 AM
I will not go too overboard on this, but will just post some general impressions. I used the knife on everything through easter weekend and probably put about 30 hours of use on it. I forgot to take measurement specs, but the knife is anorexic, in a good way...if you like that sort of thing.

Cosmetics: the scratches on the blade don't really bother me that much, it is going to get used anyway. The tang/ferrule fit was great, the handle was well put together, although there was a little shrinking in the wood causing the spacer to stand out, but that is easily fixed and almost expected. There are no gaps in the different handle junctions and everything is uniform. The spine was smooth, comfortable and as rounded as possible considering its size. Overall, good looking knife, (if you like that Wa style thing, good thing he makes western too).

Retention: Wow, I am blown away by the retention on this. I used it over Easter weekend and logged close to 30 hours. I touched it up once on a 5k and stropped daily and that was it. There was very little degeneration from a fresh edge even after half a shift of use. I would put the retention close to or better than AS.

Sharpenability:This sharpened up like a champ. I did not go through a full grit progression, but prior to sending it to Pabloz, I went through a 2k, followed by 5k, then balsa loaded CO. It raised a burr well on both grits and burr removal was not an issue.

Profile: The profile is the only thing I might alter a little, although it looks more upswept towards the tip than it feels. I might lower the tip just a bit, and call it good. I like the idea of a gyuto hybrid where it is not as tall as a normal gyuto.

Overall: Great knife, fun to play with, falls through food and has great retention. Personally, the knife is too thin for my taste, but it is something I am sure the maker could adjust.

Here is a pic of a profile shot, from top to bottom: Moritaka KS, Rottman gyuto, Fujiwara, and DT.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/mattstephens79/IMG_1616.jpg

Pabloz
04-16-2012, 09:32 PM
Here it is after touch up.

616361646165

I hope it is acceptable. Put a new edge to 5K Chosera and CrO3 strop. This really is one sweet knife. It is thin...Laser thin at .077 or 1.97mm atop the heal. I really don't think I'll be putting it through any strenuous work much less a 30 hr. marathon.

PZ

Andrew H
04-16-2012, 09:34 PM
Here it is after touch up.

616361646165

I hope it is acceptable. Put a new edge to 5K Chosera and CrO3 strop. This really is one sweet knife. It is thin...Laser thin at .077 or 1.97mm atop the heal. I really don't think I'll be putting it through any strenuous work much less a 30 hr. marathon.

PZ

Very nice job! What did you do to clean it up?

SpikeC
04-16-2012, 09:44 PM
It does look a little nicer now........

Pabloz
04-16-2012, 09:52 PM
Very nice job! What did you do to clean it up?

Well worn 400 cork belt, WET @ +- 1500 SFPM, slack (no platen).

tk59
04-16-2012, 10:53 PM
Looks good! Thanks, Paul.

Pabloz
04-16-2012, 11:53 PM
Hooray!

Well Eamon here comes another. I'm gonna play just a little more but it should be out by Saturday to you by Tuesday. All your previous addy info still good?

Tinh...what amount did you want this insured for??

Pabloz
04-22-2012, 12:15 AM
Left ABQ today for DFW. Enjoy Eamon.

Parting thoughts:
I will miss this knife. It was fun! Sharpened really easily. Burr came up quick and fell of on the strop easily. That could be an indicator of a softer blade but since I really did not put it through any rigorous tasks edge degeredation was insignificant to me. My wife and Chef James also loved it. It was truely pleasurable and set a standard to aspire to.
THANK YOU Tinh!!!!

PZ

Eamon Burke
04-22-2012, 12:58 AM
Cool, I thought you solved the issue of how to come to Texas and mailed yourself in a crate.

tk59
04-22-2012, 10:41 AM
Glad you liked it, Paul. Thanks for the TLC and keeping it moving in a timely fashion. I'm looking forward to having it back. :)

Pabloz
04-22-2012, 11:07 AM
Cool, I thought you solved the issue of how to come to Texas and mailed yourself in a crate.

That would be one hell of a crating charge.

Eamon Burke
04-24-2012, 04:50 PM
Got it last night. Nice packing job, Mr. Zalesak.

Pabloz
04-24-2012, 04:54 PM
Got it last night. Nice packing job, Mr. Zalesak.

Great....thanks for letting me know....BTW do you still have the Sigmas???

tk59
05-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Alrighty folks, last call on this passaround! That goes for righties AND lefties! :hoot:

SpikeC
05-01-2012, 03:38 PM
Any chance of sending the righty my way on it's way home?

Crothcipt
05-01-2012, 09:07 PM
I wouldn't mind trying the righty.

tk59
05-01-2012, 09:34 PM
Alright, we'll make it Crothcipt, Spike and one more stop before coming back to me. I think that'll be it for this passaround unless anymore lefties come out of the woodwork. :wink:

SpikeC
05-01-2012, 09:37 PM
Thanks!

tk59
05-01-2012, 09:39 PM
Thanks!My pleasure, Spike.

Crothcipt
05-01-2012, 09:39 PM
thank you

tk59
05-01-2012, 09:39 PM
thank youNo problem, C. :)

Crothcipt
05-07-2012, 07:46 PM
wow I got this in today and I can not tell that it has been all over the country. The blade is so taken care of I am afraid:sofa: to even put a smudge on it. Eamon did you do any stropping or anything on this, I cant tell at all.

well gonna have to do some cutting this week and do some comparing with other steals.

Ty again for letting me try this out.:thumbsup:

tk59
05-07-2012, 07:50 PM
wow I got this in today and I can not tell that it has been all over the country.For the record, it's been to Europe, too. :)

Eamon Burke
05-07-2012, 08:40 PM
Yup. It took a good edge.

Crothcipt
05-14-2012, 07:51 PM
I am very impressed with this knife, and steel. I got it from Eamon with a beautiful edge. With using it all week with moderate knife work, I only had to strop. after work on fri. and just before I sent it off.

The hybred part of the knife was def. different. When I was pinch gripping it I wanted to slide down to the end of the handle and hold it there. When I would use it for slicing on the end of the handle it felt right, were as normally I would feel very uncomfortable. I have no idea why this was a second, but then again i don't own a custom yet.

tk59
05-14-2012, 09:17 PM
...I have no idea why this was a second...It was an experimental knife and the finish was not great. I have a feeling PabloZ took care of a lot of the latter part.


...but then again i don't own a custom yet.The "custom"-ness of it has nothing to do with anything. Not all customs are created equal and some are a better value than others depending on what is important to you. Knowing what Rottman/Tilman's custom stuff is like, I had no problem springing for a second.

Crothcipt
05-14-2012, 09:31 PM
I agree with you there. Lovely knife. I wouldn't mind owning a second either. I hope I didn't come off as a jerk there. I was trying to say that in my mind he hit the mark, and even more. I'm sure I would be blown away with a first.