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bieniek
01-23-2012, 08:19 AM
Soo, winter is really good time to play with steel and stones, isnt it?

And so I sent my Masamoto budget edition to spa.

I polished the front entirely and set new, quite cool kasumi with the naturals im using now.

Please notice on the photo how angles of reflection changes for the iron cladding and steel edge :)

The result:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3263.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3260.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3258.jpg

Kasumi, huh? :wink:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3257.jpg


Some photos with my home made oak saya

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3256.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3255.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3254.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3253.jpg

I really like fow the wood is reflected in the blade :)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3252.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3251.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3249.jpg

That is what I think a kasumi is :)
Im thinking of polishing the back also :D

maxim
01-23-2012, 08:27 AM
and where are pictures of these Naturals :spankarse:
Nice finish BTW !! :D

Lars
01-23-2012, 08:30 AM
That looks fantastic - great pics..!

..and nice job on the saya as well..

Lars

stevenStefano
01-23-2012, 08:33 AM
Great job, I bet that took a while

bieniek
01-23-2012, 08:34 AM
Jesus, Master Yoda, please, just not with the stick... :D:D ;)

I dont have pics in action, but have photo of yesterdays carrot cake instead ! :tease:

bieniek
01-23-2012, 08:36 AM
Thanks,

it shure took some time, but thats the only thing I dont have to pay for

schanop
01-23-2012, 08:52 AM
Very good work, biniek. Seems like a good amount of hamaguriba too.

May I please join for fun? Kasumi on yoshi with hakka from the master, and no finger stone. It is more of a fine matt kasumi finish. Still learning to do a hazy mirror kasumi, but not quite there yet.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JbYYZDkFGHw/TxdfVbbbGTI/AAAAAAAAAYU/6pImeyhkVvk/s800/PICT0006.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BIPDS3bo11E/TxdfSOQXlXI/AAAAAAAAAYE/NCKU7KADkD0/s800/PICT0004.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YNa8STmovvs/TxdfRO3ZgfI/AAAAAAAAAX8/U4sGZsDe8cc/s800/PICT0002.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8a9ofOYilt4/TxdfLscOzWI/AAAAAAAAAXs/Lt1Ya0-BqAg/s800/PICT0003.jpg

bieniek
01-23-2012, 09:04 AM
Very good! :)

[Come on people, shake what your momma gave ya...yyy no... show me your kasumi!!]

You need fingerstones man!! :D

Those are the three indivuduals responsible, provided by Maxim. And a set of fingering stones which I dont know what are they, two looks the same to me, I just used them so much to find out which is what, hardness and how each works on what step of the process.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3267.jpg

Bryan G.
01-23-2012, 09:21 AM
You guys are really talented around here. One day I'll get time and focus enough to be able to do as well as some of you guys. Super sweet looking

heirkb
01-23-2012, 01:10 PM
That looks really nice. How did you polish the part above the shinogi (I forget what it's called). The part with the stamps. On stones?

GlassEye
01-23-2012, 01:32 PM
That is gorgeous. What did you use to polish the face of the blade, grit#?

bieniek
01-23-2012, 01:50 PM
No guys, this wasnt on stones. I started with 120 grit sandpaper and water. In steps 120/180/320/400/600/800/1000/1200/1600/2000.

Then I went down to 1000 and did it again.

Then I went to hard felt and polished with my blue compound, and then with my green compound, which should be .5, I dont care of numbers too much.

Then I polished few minutes with microfiber cloth with the green compound and there you have it.

Less than two hours I would say

heirkb
01-23-2012, 02:02 PM
Wow. I'm impressed you managed to keep the shinogi clean when sanding with sand paper. Oh, nice saya, too!

bieniek
01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
i used my favourite sandpaper holder - wine cork :D, and by holding fingernail of other finger in the spine, I guided the paper on cork jsut above the shinogi. Of course i finished kasumi after that action:)

schanop
01-23-2012, 02:53 PM
Wine cork works very well. I've used normal wet/dry sand paper up until about 2000/3000 grit. Then it is 3M polishing paper which goes up to 8000 grit. That kk must have come quite flat that bieniek could do all that in two hours. And yup, do the body polishing first, before sharpening again. This way, retouching/cleaning up patina on the body is an easy wipe with 3M 8000 grit paper, and sometimes also with slurry from finishing stone.

bieniek
01-23-2012, 02:55 PM
I straightened it Murray Carters style before.

Its a shame straightening of edge is whole different story.

Schanop man your profile of yanagiba is perfect, smooth and sexy :)

schanop
01-23-2012, 03:05 PM
I straightened it Murray Carters style before.

Its a shame straightening of edge is whole different story.

Schanop man your profile of yanagiba is perfect, smooth and sexy :)

:whistling: It is getting there thank. That yoshihiro tip came a bit crooked, and I have tried to fix, and learned about, the problem, and screwed the tip part through out last year. And with some tips from Jon, it has now come back reached that stage. I've lost about 15mm along the way :clown: getting my lessons and may be one or two mm jabbing it into sink while washing it. It is now just about 280mm from handle to tip.


Very good! :)

You need fingerstones man!! :D



Fingerstones are very good, and I do have some from Maxim. Just that with soft muddy stone, you can do matt kasumi without fingerstone too. Do you remember Mr. Broida's work here (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/3577-Suisin-sharpening-fun-JKI)?

schanop
01-24-2012, 05:54 PM
How do you make kasumi on your deba. Do you go to a great length to keep it nice?

I've just received this Atagoyama Aka-pin from Maksim, and played around with it briefly with my deba. I think it is a very good stone for the task: making a nice toothy edge, and leaving a nice even scratch pattern on jigane. It is a muddy stone, and quite easy to use.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2020/pict0010ry.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3633/pict0008ab.jpg

I know, I still have to work on that shinogi line around the tip. And this is the stone when wet during sharpening.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4320/pict0003l.jpg

JBroida
01-24-2012, 06:22 PM
looks like a fun stone... seems like a pretty solid base to work from for a nice finish

mainaman
01-24-2012, 07:10 PM
those red aotos are really really nice stones I love mine

bieniek
01-25-2012, 12:54 PM
I didnt do it yet on my deba, as that didnt arrived yet, but I worked on some for others.

I would allways go full way through. I also noticed it is easier on "damascus", or damascus cladding. I have my theory of that but its crazy and I wont tell.

But, As I got some pretty messed up knives, first thing is knife straightening, of what I can do with stick and hammer, and then secondary bevel straightening with DMT. Then I would work 1K stone until all scratches are gone from diamond.
And then start kasumisation, which doesnt really take all that long :) :D

Before I was pretty crazy on having really beautiful finish on my knives and polished edge, now I still want polish :D, but I realize sometimes its better to have some natural scratches but knife more ready for the task in hand! Like the Hiromoto for example, I dont go Ohira with it, no point.

schanop
01-25-2012, 04:09 PM
@Mr Broida, it is a fun stone, get one :idea2: and join the club :thumbsup:

@bieniek, it is interesting that you have a theory for damascus knife. I haven't tried my hands on one yet, haven't been brave enough to put my kitaeji knife to use and anywhere near the stone.

My deba has seen a better finish in the past, but as soon as it goes through snapper head, I would say "oh no, not again ...." to myself. I think I am content with coarser finish for now; a king 800 muddy finish + finger stone, either natural or synthetic, works well too and is very easy to do.

bieniek
01-26-2012, 12:40 AM
It is just a knife.
I like working with steel and wood by hand, because theres some margin for errors.

You cannot make so big mistake working on the stone not to being able to fix it.

And you cannot learn if you not going to do it, can you?

The kasumi stays like it is for a few edge-touchups-sharpenings, if theres litle scratches from bone or chopping board or similar I wouldnt care.

The king effect is quite decent, i just use the mud on cork dont need fingerstone :)

bieniek
01-26-2012, 12:41 AM
Now it somes to me you actually can, If you drop the knife on stone floor and it breaks in half :D

Dave Martell
01-26-2012, 10:40 AM
This is really beautiful work. What impresses me is the level of shine on the blade road combined with a kasumi finish and of course your overall attention to detail. It's just really nice!



Soo, winter is really good time to play with steel and stones, isnt it?

And so I sent my Masamoto budget edition to spa.

I polished the front entirely and set new, quite cool kasumi with the naturals im using now.

Please notice on the photo how angles of reflection changes for the iron cladding and steel edge :)

The result:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3263.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3260.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3258.jpg

Kasumi, huh? :wink:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3257.jpg


Some photos with my home made oak saya

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3256.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3255.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3254.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3253.jpg

I really like fow the wood is reflected in the blade :)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3252.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3251.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_3249.jpg

That is what I think a kasumi is :)
Im thinking of polishing the back also :D

bieniek
01-26-2012, 11:42 AM
Thanks a lot Dave, to hear that from you is really nice :)

Andrew H
01-26-2012, 03:19 PM
I love the finish. I'm also impressed you are brave enough to go at a yanagi with a DMT.

Johnny.B.Good
01-26-2012, 03:27 PM
Very impressive.

Adagimp
01-26-2012, 04:35 PM
Wow fantastic work on both yanagis. I've never gotten my kasumi finish to turn out quite that nicely, but I've never used the complete sandpaper method. I am definitely going to have to give that a try.

schanop
01-26-2012, 04:51 PM
Fine sandpaper on the body/face of the knife where kanji is for mirror polishing not for the bevel. Kasumi on the bevel is made with stone.

Just asserting in case you've got the wrong impression


Wow fantastic work on both yanagis. I've never gotten my kasumi finish to turn out quite that nicely, but I've never used the complete sandpaper method. I am definitely going to have to give that a try.

Adagimp
01-26-2012, 09:22 PM
Fine sandpaper on the body/face of the knife where kanji is for mirror polishing not for the bevel. Kasumi on the bevel is made with stone.

Just asserting in case you've got the wrong impression

I did indeed get the wrong impression so thanks for clarifying. Guess I just need to experiment more with stone and fingerstone combinations on the bevel.

bieniek
01-27-2012, 12:19 AM
Thanks.

Andrew, I dont see anything wrong with using DMT for shaping. Im not sharpening with it. But It would kill my stone to try to have really really flat bevel.
And after that it is just about smoothing the surface out of those big scratches.

It is also useful when you encounter a blade from somebody who all his life was just grinding on the heel for example....
Adagimp, "dont underestimate your ability to observe things" as Murray Carter said.
If our not happy with the scratches, you have to work some more. And then more, until you reached what the stone has had to offer.
:)

slowtyper
01-28-2012, 12:50 AM
Can you get a nice finish like that using synthetic stones? How much are a few fingerstones?

bieniek
01-28-2012, 10:27 AM
Type Gritbox in the search here at kkf, I written a thread with photos somewhere how to do that kind of kasumi on synthetics. Other than that you can just use 1k stone to get that kind of finish:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/101_3036.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/101_3034.jpg

And after stone you use slurry this way:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/101_3030.jpg

Fingrstones 20 bucks or something.

schanop
01-28-2012, 10:30 PM
If I am not mistaken, kcma finished this kk bevel on synthetic stone, but am not quite sure which one.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QScc67oMD-o/Te8ZBURa_4I/AAAAAAAAALA/Iduymv-QQJ0/s912/P1010274.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DS06yryQBf4/Te8Y4BecKNI/AAAAAAAAAK8/HfFR6Lxgl_4/s912/P1010273.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lSHFXLtLZ90/Te8YygUJwYI/AAAAAAAAAK4/Fmnp7Q4JsGI/s912/P1010272.jpg

slowtyper
01-28-2012, 11:39 PM
When I do hamaguriba I find it hard to get an even scratch pattern with the 1k stone. does the cork help with that?

JBroida
01-28-2012, 11:43 PM
the pic from KC was a 10k super stone

for even finishes, you can use cork, cotton, or damn near anything to apply the mud.... but super soft pressure and a lot of mud on the stones work just as well (and i mean REALLY REALLY light pressure and A TON of mud)

jgraeff
01-28-2012, 11:49 PM
hey jon do you think you could do a video showing how to do this?

bieniek
01-29-2012, 12:31 AM
I dont think low pressure can help you on 1k Stone. Some visible scratches will stay there. I use cork cause its flat, easy to have a good grip on it, its readily available, and it works fine.

In the video you would just see him moving the blade on the stone, but you wouldnt get the feeling of the pressure used,

JBroida
01-29-2012, 12:34 AM
visible on 1k, yes... but even and smooth

JBroida
01-29-2012, 12:40 AM
In the video you would just see him moving the blade on the stone, but you wouldnt get the feeling of the pressure used,

yeah... this

Seth
01-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Do you guys ever do the opposite and totally obliterate the different appearance between hard and soft in the blade road?
s.

heirkb
01-29-2012, 12:47 PM
hey jon do you think you could do a video showing how to do this?

I saw it in real life and still don't quite get how he did it!

bieniek
01-29-2012, 01:07 PM
Do you guys ever do the opposite and totally obliterate the different appearance between hard and soft in the blade road?
s.

You could do that just by polishing the fell out of it. But to make it work takes the same amount of time and determination :)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/1832-Gritbox%C2%AE?highlight=gritbox

This the thread on that same subject when I still used synthetics

K-Fed
02-01-2012, 07:20 PM
I Just finished fixing( lots of chips and fubar'd bevels and ura from dished out stones ), and sharpening a yanagiba for a co-worker. I got a very nice high contrast kasumi finish from taking the knife through the synthetic progression( the fixing part ), then droping back to the aoto and finally finishing on a light nakayama karasu. I like how it turned out and it's a night and day difference from how it looked before.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/023.jpg

schanop
02-01-2012, 07:31 PM
Nice,,, I have found that having an even and relatively flat jigane from a good course/medium stone work helps a lot.

schanop
02-05-2012, 05:42 AM
More kasumi porn.

http://www.suisin.co.jp/toku02/2009-02/images/10.jpg
http://www.suisin.co.jp/toku02/2010-01/images/6.jpg
http://www.suisin.co.jp/toku02/2011-03/images/002.jpg
http://www.suisin.co.jp/toku02/2009-01/images/6.jpg
http://www.suisin.co.jp/toku02/2009-01/images/10.jpg

I think these are all Tatsuya-san's work.

Tristan
02-05-2012, 08:47 PM
Thanks much for the thread. Sometimes the most obvious things like your grit progression, and photos of the cork and the slurry really REALLY help complete noobs like me assimilate the knowledge. Often the pros contribute so much but omit basic information (because seriously, we should know better) but just wanted to say the really basic info helps me loads!

Erm, can I just ask another silly question. The difference in the hazy vs the polished portion all along the bevel Is achieved through first taking the knife edge to a polish that you are satisfied with, then polishing above the edge with a progression of naturals? How do you achieve that inconsistent wavy line all through the length? Sorry if my question is stupid.

Tristan
02-05-2012, 09:01 PM
Oh, just thought of one more. Do you cut a small piece of sandpaper and drag it around with the cork end wrapped in it? Or do you actually try to match the cork diameter with a round cutout for more control?

heirkb
02-06-2012, 12:29 AM
The wavy line is the line where the outer steel meets the core steel of the knife. Some stones highlight that lamination and others don't. Typically, people polish with stones that highlight that contrast all the way through their sharpening. That means that as you sharpen more, the scratches become less visible on the misty cladding steel and the core steel gets shinier. Some stones are better for this than others.

The thing with the cork is using the mud from the stone to even out the scratches from sharpening. There is no actual sandpaper on the cork. Cork alone is abrasive and the mud helps in getting a more even finish. It's kind of like using a fingerstone to even out the polish. You can look on Maksim's (Japanesenaturalstones.com) YouTube page for videos of him polishing a knife and using a fingerstone.

On the knives in the post above yours, there is some more tricky work involved. Some of those knives are made from one solid piece of steel, which means that there are no naturally contrasting core and cladding steels. The reason they have a misty and a shiny section in the blade road is that the polisher was really clever and used different stones to change the aesthetics.

Tristan
02-06-2012, 02:02 AM
i used my favourite sandpaper holder - wine cork :D, and by holding fingernail of other finger in the spine, I guided the paper on cork jsut above the shinogi. Of course i finished kasumi after that action:)

Thanks heirkb - I was exactly wondering how you showed Kasumi on a monosteel INOX blade like the Suisin one. I believe that for the other clad knives if your technique is right and you sharpen with natural stones or using the cork method as described on this post would show the wavy lines below the shinogi?

As for the sandpaper question, it was related to shining up the part above the shinogi to the mirror finish. I was wondering how bieniek 'mounted' the sandpaper or held it in place.

bieniek
02-06-2012, 03:01 PM
K-Fed, thats quite sexy looking effect and the knife itself is an appealing one

Tristan, the wavy line is there all the time, if you have a blade with two metals.
Well, not every knife actualy have the joint wavy, somecheapo yanagibas would have the connection completely flat.

To bring it out, You dont really need natural stones. Just regular 1K stone is enough to make it visible, then you need more time and patience and stones to get the better effect.
It will be visible after 1k, but it wont be crisp :)

If I would use natural stones, and have the secondary/primary connecting just where the metals come together - so the hamaguri I currently have, I would first start of working on the mud from the iron, then, when I would be satisfied and couldnt polish it more on that stone, I would move to sharpening the steel. The same action with all the rest of your stones. Pressure changes also as you work at a stone, not only when you change stone. What I mean when you built up the mud and you have nice paste there, you just slide the blade on it. It doesnt really feel like you touch the stones surface.

I used my middle finger and thumb to hold sanding paper on place and the cork itself. I used the index finger as guide sliding on the spine. The middle finger is also working as a weight on the cork. The cork was quite dry, i first trimmed it a bit so its surface is flat.

bieniek
02-16-2012, 01:32 AM
Nice,,, I have found that having an even and relatively flat jigane from a good course/medium stone work helps a lot.

Oh hell of yes.

And that is why I flatten it with DMT.

bieniek
05-10-2012, 03:10 PM
OK.
This might get little boring. :scared4:

I sold my Masamoto, to make space and funds for something new ...:)
I actually sold both yanagis, but only with the masamoto I went that extra mile to clean it and polish it and baby it, as I really believe it were great years of faithfull service[and abuse] that this knife provided, and I want the next person to get good very sharp knife OOTB that he will [hopefully] cherish.

I really think the level of sharpness attainable is quite close to way much more expensive knife, and it is only 280 bucks new!!

So before I shipped the knife, I took the handle out, sanded it, polished it, cleaned and patinaed tang, polished the whole blade and sanded and polished sheath.
I also epoxied the handle/tang connection spot, so hopefully no more problems from that direction.

Now time for the effect. Bye bye masamoto. I feel kinda sad.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4071.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4072.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4077.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4079.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4083.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4085.jpg

Duckfat
05-10-2012, 04:02 PM
Type Gritbox in the search here at kkf, I written a thread with photos somewhere how to do that kind of kasumi on synthetics.

I did a search but no luck finding the thread but I'm blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. If any one has a link I'd sure appreciate it.

Dave

heirkb
05-10-2012, 04:08 PM
Beautiful work. I wonder, have you done anything to that Yoshikane petty I sent you a while back? I know it was ugly with all the scratches, but it's such a nice cutting petty that I think it really deserves to be cleaned up.

schanop
05-10-2012, 05:31 PM
Nice work. What are you getting next? My yoshihiro has gone too. But since then, have acquired a couple of newer yanagibas already :-)

slowtyper
05-10-2012, 10:30 PM
I did a search but no luck finding the thread but I'm blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. If any one has a link I'd sure appreciate it.

Dave
Enter this into google (or your browser address bar, if it automatically searches google)

site:kitchenknifeforums.com gritbox

bieniek
05-11-2012, 12:17 AM
Dave

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/1832-Gritbox%C2%AE?highlight=

Heirkb, the Yoshikane petty was polished to mirro and then to haze with fingerstones. I dont remember now if I took photos but can do next time.
Yeah, that petty is awesome. The steel doesnt get as sharp as lets say AS from hiromoto, but keeps that edge forever. It also is quite resistant to abrasives I have

Schanop, not yet :) If all play itself out well, I will have a nice surprise... Anyway Im just gonna use the new one, and the 330 sakimaru for bigger fish.

I might buy second yanagiba after[Im not sure yet but Yoshikane or Hide], just to rotate with, but thats it. I have to stay at managable level, so I can love[and use the shite out of] all of the knives equally.

heirkb
05-11-2012, 12:13 PM
Heirkb, the Yoshikane petty was polished to mirro and then to haze with fingerstones. I dont remember now if I took photos but can do next time.
Yeah, that petty is awesome. The steel doesnt get as sharp as lets say AS from hiromoto, but keeps that edge forever. It also is quite resistant to abrasives I have


That's good to hear. I made that petty into a much nicer cutter (IMO), but also made it really ugly by doing that. I'd love to see a pic of it now.

bieniek
05-11-2012, 03:11 PM
will do.

bieniek
05-27-2012, 03:18 PM
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4205.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4210.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4214.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4216.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_4217.jpg

DaveRossy
05-27-2012, 04:40 PM
They are frigging gorgeous.....I want one

heirkb
05-28-2012, 07:36 PM
Great to see it so well taken care of. I almost want another one...

DaveRossy
05-28-2012, 11:42 PM
I want ALL my knives to look like that :bigeek:

bieniek
05-29-2012, 03:59 AM
Great to see it so well taken care of. I almost want another one...

Thanks :)

It was bit of a hassle cause I havent smoothen sides with stones first, just with piece of sandpaper on my thumb. So the finish from fingerstone was somewhat hard the execute. But some corner cutting and it all worked rather well :)
Its far far away from perfect though.

heirkb
05-29-2012, 02:59 PM
Makes sense. I always had trouble getting a good fingerstone finish on that knife. The surface wasn't ever quite flat enough for it. You still did a nice job.