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apicius9
01-25-2012, 09:33 PM
I just want to play around with that and could do trial and error, but maybe someone here makes it and has a few tips? I have looked online a bit, what I want to do is:

max. half all purpose flour, the more whole wheat flour the better
maybe throw in a few flax seeds, rolled oats, other seeds
make enough for 2 or 3 loafs and keep the dough in the fridge (?)
get a nice crust on it
planning to bake in a dutch oven
prefer denser over too fluffy, hearty over too fine

Does that work?
Will I need to add gluten if I use whole wheat?
Can I just start the dough, let it rise for 12h and then keep it in the fridge until needed? Covered air tight? And then take it out, let it rise for 2-3 hours and bake?

Any specific recommendations, recipes or other tips?

Just assume that I am a complete dummy when it comes to baking... I'll be happy to explore other methods, but this seemed like a good and easy place to start before I began thinking about the details... Baguettes and rolls will be next.

Stefan

P.S. I remember Warren had some tips on his site but I lost the link, does anybody have that? Thanks!

WildBoar
01-25-2012, 11:18 PM
Warren's site is down. I asked here last month if anyone had heard from him and had no response. "recipesonrails"

cnochef
01-25-2012, 11:40 PM
You can go up to 60% whole wheat without adding gluten. With more whole wheat flour, your bread will benefit from prolonged fermentation in the fridge of 2-3 days.

Peter Reinhart has developed a method of making 100% whole wheat bread, without having to add gluten. It involves making one sponge with dry yeast that stays in the fridge and a second sponge that you leave out overnight for natural yeasts to act on. Then you combine them, add more flour, other bread ingredients, proof and bake:
http://littlebluehen.com/?p=950

If you're adding flax seeds they either have to be ground or soaked in water to release their nutritional benefits.

Here is the classic no-knead bread recipe:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/081mrex.html

JBroida
01-26-2012, 12:05 AM
hey, i did a sharpening class for the littlebluehen lady (and her husband)... how cool. I used the NY times version when i did it way back when... came out good.

James
01-26-2012, 12:24 AM
hey, i did a sharpening class for the littlebluehen lady (and her husband)... how cool. I used the NY times version when i did it way back when... came out good.

I've recently started using the nytimes version as well; you want to bump up the temperature to 475-500 though, otherwise the crust is a bit weak

don
01-26-2012, 01:11 AM
I recommended weighing your incredients, you'll get more consistent results.

Cooking with a dutch oven is great for producing a nice crust, and providing the loaf a nice spring. Preheat oven at 500 deg, with the dutch oven. When you place the dutch oven back in the oven, reduce heat to 450 deg. Bake for 20 minutes with lid on, then 10-20 minutes to finish depending on size of loaf. Internal temperature goal is 210 deg.

If you're going to buy a no knead bread book, I recommend Peter Reinhart's artisan breads every day. This book has straight forward and simple recipes that will get good bread on the table with little fuss.

Lucretia
01-26-2012, 01:29 AM
I make all our bread, but have an Electrolux Assistent that does the kneading so I don't know how our recipes would work no-knead. I've been working on a multigrain recipe that I use for our regular bread, but I've burned up 2 KitchenAid Professional 600s making it--it's a really heavy dough. (Love the Electrolux--it's TONS better than a KitchenAid. Pricey, but worth it.) I use bread flour instead of AP, but don't add any extra gluten. The white flour is less than half the recipe--it also has oatmeal, oat bran, whole wheat, sunflower seeds, ground flax, a whole grain mix and a high fiber cornstarch from King Arthur. King Arthur makes GREAT flour and baking products. It is really worth the extra money for their flour--baked goods just come out a lot better. They also have a lot of helpful information on their website, if I remeber correctly. I use quick oats rather than old-fashioned rolled oats--they disappear nicely into the dough. I make 3 loaves at a time, and rather than let the extra dough sit in the refrigerator, I spray quart-sized ziploc bags with cooking oil and put a loaf-sized portion of dough in the bag after kneading but before the 1st rise. (If you let your dough sit in the refrigerator too long, it will sour.) Then I toss the bags in the freezer. They keep well, and I just take it out of the freezer the night before I'm ready to bake and put it in the fridge to thaw. Then just go thru a normal rise and bake cycle the next day. The same freezing method works for rolls, etc. "Baking with Julia" (Julia Child) has a good mixed starter bread for baguettes. And for your "starter", you can take a walnut-sized piece of dough from a white bread recipe (or pizza dough--yum!) and put it in the freezer in a ziploc and it will be ready when you are.

www.thefreshloaf.com is a pretty good forum for bread bakers. People there are as nutty about their bread as people here are about knives.

sachem allison
01-26-2012, 01:46 AM
Baguette - no knead - larger loaf

Photo:

Title: Baguette - no knead - larger loaf

Ingredients:

Default
2.0 pound Flour, all-purpose
1.6 pound water
17.9 gram salt
2.9 gram Yeast

Instructions:

1.

Weigh all the ingredients into a dough bucket. I use a clear container I bought in the restaruant equipment area at Sam's.

2.

Mix by hand in the dough bucket, and let rest 20 minutes.

3.

Fold by hand about 20 times, pulling dough away from edge, pulling back over the dough, and slapping back on top.

4.

Cover (my bucket came with a lid) and let rest for 20 minutes.

5.

Fold by hand about another 20 times, pulling dough away from center and slapping back on top, and let rest for anoterh 20 minutes.

6.

Fold by hand (third time), about 15 times. Dough should form a smooth ball by now. Let ferment for 2.5 hours.
7.

Pre-shape the dough, and let it rest for a few minutes. Then shape the dough

8.

After the 2.5 hour fermentation, the dough will spread out and look a little bubbly on top.

9.

Lightly flour the dough while still in the bucket. The top will become the bottom.

10.

Flour your work table.
Use a scraper or bench knife to loosen the sides. Dip the bench knife in flour first, and then scrape between the side of the bucket and the dough. This is a quick down motion, and then back up. Dip in flour again, and repeat in an adjacent area. Repeat, working your way around the bucket. This is just to stop the dough from sticking to the sides of the bucket. Then turn the bucket upside down, reach underneath wiht your scraper, and scrape between the dough and the bottom of the bucket, letting the dough fall onto your floured worktable.

11.

Lightly flour the top of the dough, and keep your hands well floured. Divide the dough into 4 equal pieces.

12.

To shape the dough as a boule, first lay the flat piece on the work table.

13.

Then fold the top third over itself.

14.

Then fold the upper two corners over on itself.

15.

And finally fold the bottom two corners over on itself. Then pick up the dough and tighten into a ball with the seams down. This is hard to explain without pictures, and I didn't have anyone to shoot them as I did it. Maybe some day in the future.

16.

Place the rounded shaped dough ball on the worktable or board to rise.

17.

Allow to rise till doubled in bulk, about an hour.

18.

Sprinkle a peel with some coarse corn meal, and put the dough on the peel.

19.

Put the dough into your oven. I like 425 when using an indoor oven, but 500 F when using the BGE.

20.

Steam is important for the bread to bake properly. If you look close, my Egg setup is the inverted plate setter, a pan for water, the rack and a pizza stone. I pour water into the pan as I put the bread onto the stone, and then I spray the bread with water just before I close the dome.

Bake for about 25 minutes.
21.

Made a video of the process:

sachem allison
01-26-2012, 01:46 AM
This is warren's recipe
Baguette - no knead - larger loaf

Photo:

Title: Baguette - no knead - larger loaf

Ingredients:

Default
2.0 pound Flour, all-purpose
1.6 pound water
17.9 gram salt
2.9 gram Yeast

Instructions:

1.

Weigh all the ingredients into a dough bucket. I use a clear container I bought in the restaruant equipment area at Sam's.

2.

Mix by hand in the dough bucket, and let rest 20 minutes.

3.

Fold by hand about 20 times, pulling dough away from edge, pulling back over the dough, and slapping back on top.

4.

Cover (my bucket came with a lid) and let rest for 20 minutes.

5.

Fold by hand about another 20 times, pulling dough away from center and slapping back on top, and let rest for anoterh 20 minutes.

6.

Fold by hand (third time), about 15 times. Dough should form a smooth ball by now. Let ferment for 2.5 hours.
7.

Pre-shape the dough, and let it rest for a few minutes. Then shape the dough

8.

After the 2.5 hour fermentation, the dough will spread out and look a little bubbly on top.

9.

Lightly flour the dough while still in the bucket. The top will become the bottom.

10.

Flour your work table.
Use a scraper or bench knife to loosen the sides. Dip the bench knife in flour first, and then scrape between the side of the bucket and the dough. This is a quick down motion, and then back up. Dip in flour again, and repeat in an adjacent area. Repeat, working your way around the bucket. This is just to stop the dough from sticking to the sides of the bucket. Then turn the bucket upside down, reach underneath wiht your scraper, and scrape between the dough and the bottom of the bucket, letting the dough fall onto your floured worktable.

11.

Lightly flour the top of the dough, and keep your hands well floured. Divide the dough into 4 equal pieces.

12.

To shape the dough as a boule, first lay the flat piece on the work table.

13.

Then fold the top third over itself.

14.

Then fold the upper two corners over on itself.

15.

And finally fold the bottom two corners over on itself. Then pick up the dough and tighten into a ball with the seams down. This is hard to explain without pictures, and I didn't have anyone to shoot them as I did it. Maybe some day in the future.

16.

Place the rounded shaped dough ball on the worktable or board to rise.

17.

Allow to rise till doubled in bulk, about an hour.

18.

Sprinkle a peel with some coarse corn meal, and put the dough on the peel.

19.

Put the dough into your oven. I like 425 when using an indoor oven, but 500 F when using the BGE.

20.

Steam is important for the bread to bake properly. If you look close, my Egg setup is the inverted plate setter, a pan for water, the rack and a pizza stone. I pour water into the pan as I put the bread onto the stone, and then I spray the bread with water just before I close the dome.

Bake for about 25 minutes.
21.

Made a video of the process:

don
01-26-2012, 01:46 AM
Here's a few recipes:
Reinhart's 100% whole wheat hearth bread. As opposed to the blogger, the original recipe has the bread rise overnight to develop the gluten. Then 3 hrs before ready to bake, take the dough out of the fridge. Shape the cold dough, and let rise 2-3 hours until 1.5x in size. http://lalalaraine.tumblr.com/post/6047356472/100-whole-wheat-hearth-bread

Cook's Illustrated take on the no knead bread. Parchment sling if you're using a Dutch oven is nice. http://blog.seattlepi.com/devouringseattle/2008/01/06/how-to-improve-no-knead-bread/

+1 for www.thefreshloaf.com

apicius9
01-26-2012, 03:21 AM
Cool, lots of great tips and leads, thanks! I hope to get to it this weekend and start playing around.

Stefan

wenus2
01-26-2012, 05:10 AM
Got some good advice going here. A couple bakers around I see...
Follow Dons baking advice for the dutch oven.

I will add a few tidbits:

If you proof 80 percent or so before going in the fridge to retard (it will continue to grow as it cools) you can then go straight into the oven when you are ready to bake, in fact I would suggest doing it that way. there's no need to proof the addition couple hours unless you feel it's under proofed.

You can do half whole wheat in your bread no problem (although somewhat less ideal for a no-knead) but you will need to increase your water accordingly from what the recipe calls for. You are very humid so I have no clue what would be right for you, I just know it's a lot less that what I would have to add here in the desert.

What will make your loaf dense is all those adjuncts, not the whole wheat.
If you don't mind it dense, sub in some rye as well (I like around 5% total flour). It adds a lot of character to your final product.

Read the protein content on the nutritional info label of your flour, you want it to read at least 4g, 5g would be better. And fresher is better, the old AP flour in your cupboard won't make as good of bread as a fresh high protein flour will, regardless of whose blog says it will :)

I wouldn't keep the dough in the fridge more than about 3 days or so, it will get too sour. You can form a ball and freeze it, then just pull it out and put in the Dutch oven to defrost and rise before baking. On second thought, do that in a mixing bowl unless your Dutch oven is enamel coated (or similar).

There's a learning curve.
Good luck!

apicius9
01-28-2012, 06:45 PM
Well, so far so good. May have given it a moment too long since my apartment manager showed up when I should have watched it, pulled it at 218F. As a good scientist I should have started with a 1:1 replication, but I am not patient enough for that :nah: This is the NYT recipe but I replaced 1/3 of the all purpose flower with whole wheat flower and added about a 1/4 cup of extra water. We'll see, waiting for the cool-down. Getting :hungry3: just looking at it, and I don;t even have anything nice in the house to eat it with.

Stefan

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7142/6778394503_63a073d049_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgapicius/6778394503/)


Stefan

apicius9
01-28-2012, 07:15 PM
Sorry, crappy pics but here it is:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6778558023_1471a414c8_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgapicius/6778558023/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6778558333_a0da1c0016_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgapicius/6778558333/)


I almost hate to say it, but this is very likely the best bread I have had in the 6 years I have now been in the US. The best in the sense that it is the closest to what I know from growing up in Germany. The crust is perfectly crunchy, I should record a sound byte when the Guede knife goes through it. The density is excellent for my taste, I like the somewhat irregular wholes in it also. Taste is very nice, a bit nutty and hearty. A few notes too bitter at some parts of the crust, not burnt but maybe that's the 5 minutes I had it in the oven too long.

So, why on earth are people buying these plastic loafs in the supermarkets? ;) This is definitely fun and I will continue playing with making bread. Thanks again everyone for the encouragement and the great tips.

Stefan

PierreRodrigue
01-28-2012, 07:38 PM
Very nice! I'm gonna have to try that! I was in Germany for 2 1/2 years, and I still miss it, that and good spaetzle!

WildBoar
01-28-2012, 08:57 PM
That bread looks awesome, Stefan!

and Pierre, if you are going to try bread, you should be able to knock out spaetzle with no problem. It's pretty easy!

Adagimp
01-28-2012, 10:48 PM
If you proof 80 percent or so before going in the fridge to retard (it will continue to grow as it cools) you can then go straight into the oven when you are ready to bake, in fact I would suggest doing it that way. there's no need to proof the addition couple hours unless you feel it's under proofed.


The proofing prior to and after the fridge is one of the things that I really like to play around with any bread I make. Doing more proofing before the fridge tends to result in a denser loaf with crumb structure consisting of many smaller gas pockets, while doing more proofing after the fridge tends to have the opposite effect. If you don't like your crumb structure try fiddling with your pre and post fridge proof time.

Lucretia
01-29-2012, 11:13 AM
Beautiful! I might have to try some in a dutch oven if it come out that nice!

don
01-30-2012, 12:03 AM
Fantastic looking bread, Stefan. Glad to hear that it tasted great too.

Home made bread is amazing isn't it? I'm also confused on why people are satisfied with supermarket breads.

Funny, your "crappy pictures" look pretty ideal to me.

PierreRodrigue
01-30-2012, 12:06 AM
I have yet to do a no kneed bread. Is it more trouble to handle than a traditional bread? I would love a good sourdough recipe! That has to be one of my favorites.

El Pescador
01-30-2012, 12:29 AM
Try it with the Kona Longboard. Made it that way for thanksgiving and was really happy with the flavor.

Pesky

slowtyper
02-10-2012, 06:52 AM
Baguette - no knead - larger loaf


Made a video of the process:
Do you have a link to the video?

lowercasebill
02-10-2012, 09:25 AM
http://recipesonrails.com/tags/bread/
link to warrens recipe list .. site worked for me

WildBoar
02-10-2012, 10:23 AM
http://recipesonrails.com/tags/bread/
link to warrens recipe list .. site worked for meAwesome! When I checked a couple months ago it was MIA. I thought the chocolate bread recipe was lost forever.