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View Full Version : Which Knife(s) Should I Buy? (And stones)



scotts
01-27-2012, 01:22 AM
I've been spending a ridiculous amount of time searching forums, and browsing some of the online stores (chefknives, japanesechefsknives, cutleryandmore, and korin mostly) but I'm feeling overwhelmed so I figured I should make a post and see what the experts recommend. Most of the threads I've seen refer to Western style handles but I'm looking more for a Wa (traditional Japanese) handle. My wife does most of the cooking and I'll be doing the sharpening but our cutting methods and grips are similiar. Anyways here's my info land I apologize in advance, I tend to ramble.

What type of knife(s) do you think you want? I'm looking at a Gyuto (undecided between a 210mm and 240mm) and possibly a Nakiri (for now).

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing? I've wanted to replace out current knife set for quite a while or at least piece by piece with the most used knives being the first. We have a set of Henckels International (Chef's, Bread, Paring, Utility, Steel Rod), as well as a Henckels 5 Star 8" Chef's that was lent to us indefinitely (about 6 months ago).

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics- Looks aren't a big concern for me, other then I can tell the Internationals are cheaply made and Wa handles have a cool look to them.
Edge Quality/Retention- The edge quality was decent at first however besides honing we haven't had them sharpened since we received them as a wedding gift 2.5 years ago.
Ease of Use- Neither of us have handled anything other then Henckels.
Comfort- My wife likes the smooth end of the handle of the five star over the Internationals which is why I'm leaning more towards a Wa style handle.

What grip do you use? My wife uses a pinch grip and I've always used a hammer grip. I've realized with all the reading I've done lately my technique is lacking to say the least so I'm switching to a pinch grip.

What kind of cutting motion do you use? Push-cut and Rock. For the Nakiri I would learn to chop for no other reason then I it amuses me :biggrin:

Where do you store them? Knife Block

Have you ever oiled a handle? No, I'm going to google that as soon as I post.

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use? Wood only.

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Rod.

Have they ever been sharpened? No.

What is your budget? I'm looking at around $100-200 for the Gyuto, $100-$150 for the Nakiri, and around $200 for stones.

What do you cook and how often? We eat mostly chicken (breasts and thighs) and nearly every kind of vegetable. We're purely home cooks, but we like to try new recipes often. We cook every evening.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)? None.

As I said above my wife prefers a smoother handle butt(?) on the Henckels 5 Star, or Twin Cuisine as apposed to our Internationals or the 4 Star. For this reason I think a Wa handle would better suit her needs and I do prefer the look of the Wa handle if anything. Weight is also something I am concerned with as my Wife has problems with her wrist when dealing with a lot of cutting and a heavy knife. This was one of the reasons that really drew me to Japanese Knives in the first place, the lack of weight and better edges (less pressure required to cut). Something I also want to mention is I am not looking at anything NON-stainless. The knife most likely will get left on a board after chopping tomatoes and it would kill me to see an expensive knife rust, so stainless only please.

I have never sharpened a knife but I'm willing to learn and will buy the proper stones. My question is are good stones really worth the price, i.e. what makes a Chosera 1000 warrant double the price of a Arashiyama 1000? I don't know how hardcore I plan to get into sharpening, if anything I just want to be able to keep a really nice edge. For this reason a 1K and a 3K or 4K or 5K seems like a good route, again though which of the last 3 would you recommend? Also would a ceramic rod be worth it as well?

Now for knife brands I have no loyalty I'm just looking for the best bang for your buck. The Tojiro seems to be highly recommended with the only caveat being VG-10 seems a little more difficult to sharpen (if someone could give a simple explanation why I'd really appreciate it) and is more prone to chipping. Originally this seemed like the knife to get but I would rather just spend a little more money to buy a less chip prone blade. This is where I've been getting a little overwhelmed with Tojiro selling a VG-10 for a certain price and Masamoto selling a different VG-10 for a different price. Is VG-10 VG-10 or can the same steel vary from one manufacturer to another?

We live close to Edmonton, Alberta and I know somewhere in town that carries Global which should give me a better idea of the weight difference between a Japanese and German knife as well as Miyabi for the feel of a Wa handle. Speaking of the Miyabi it doesn't seem to be a highly regarded knife (the Gyuto 7000 MC for example). On paper this seems like a really nice knife with the Japanese style and MC66 steel at the price you can pick one up for. Is it the weight that pushes so many away? Thanks in advance for helping out a newbie.

welshstar
01-27-2012, 01:28 AM
OK

One suggestion, call Jon at JKI, he will guide you and ensure you get great knives at your price range

Alan

El Pescador
01-27-2012, 01:34 AM
How involved do you want to become? Getting a knife really Sharp and then maintaining that sharpness means new skills and care of your knives that you probably haven't experienced in the past.

Pesky

sachem allison
01-27-2012, 01:35 AM
welcome! what he said!

Seb
01-27-2012, 01:49 AM
Since you live in Canada, it makes sense to buy direct from Japan.

Wa-gyuto: Sakai Yusuke Wa from Bluewayjapan's store on ebay.

Wa-nakiri: Fujiwara-Kanefusa FKV from japanesechefsknife.com.

Stone: King #1000/6000 combo.

The Edge
01-27-2012, 02:43 AM
I would easily call Jon at JKI and ask for his advice. His customer service is the best I've ever encountered. The combination King stone Seb mentioned is a great starting point for sharpening. As far as your question about VG10 being VG10, this is a yes and no answer. VG10 is VG10, however, when looking at kitchen knives, it comes down to the heat treat a maker uses that really defines how the blade will hold up. The best example I can give you from this is between Shun's SG2 and Miyabi's MC63 (which is really SG2). This is the same steel being used in both knives, but the Shun's edge tends to be chippy, while the Miyabi's edge holds up quite well.
While I have no experience with Miyabi's MC66 (really ZDP-189), I've heard nothing but good things about it, and I'm sure others would recommend it without hesitation.

shankster
01-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Check out knifewear in Calgary.They carry some nice stuff at all price points..

http://www.knifewear.com

scotts
01-27-2012, 10:04 AM
How involved do you want to become? Getting a knife really Sharp and then maintaining that sharpness means new skills and care of your knives that you probably haven't experienced in the past.

Pesky

I was thinking daily honing but I still need to do some more reading on sharpening. Does 10 minutes a week sound reasonable per knife to keep a good edge? How much time do you spend?

James
01-27-2012, 10:07 AM
Since you live in Canada, it makes sense to buy direct from Japan.

Wa-gyuto: Sakai Yusuke Wa from Bluewayjapan's store on ebay.

Wa-nakiri: Fujiwara-Kanefusa FKV from japanesechefsknife.com.

Stone: King #1000/6000 combo.

+1; I would also add that bluewayjapan also carries a white #2 nakiri that should be interesting if you're comfortable with using carbonsteel in the kitchen

Lefty
01-27-2012, 01:29 PM
You seem like a cool guy and you're Canadian. If you're not in a hurry, I have a great Yamawaku nakiri I can send you to try out. It's carbon steel, and very rustic, but you will be able to handle/use a properly sharpened and ground J-knife. It's a budget knife, but the thing out cuts most knives I've used.
Let me know :D

El Pescador
01-27-2012, 01:34 PM
Take up Lefty on his offer quick!

Lefty
01-27-2012, 01:47 PM
I've been thinking we senior dudes need to help out the new guys who are showing an interest in good knives a little bit more readily than we have been. For a while there, we definitely weren't being overly welcome. I had some INCREDIBLY generous makers and members show me the ropes when I first discovered this passion and just this week I was taken aback by one maker in particular. Consider this me, paying it forward.
What's a few bucks for shipping if it can help someone decide what they really like?
I'm sure you guys agree with me on this one.

Lefty
01-27-2012, 02:11 PM
I should ammend the last post, but this will do.
I have been the benefactor of an extremely generous member as well.
That's all :)

Hattorichop
01-27-2012, 03:25 PM
Scotts,

If I were you I would forgo purchasing a nakiri at this point and spend a little more on one really sweet gyuto.
As someone else mentioned Knifewear in Calgary is a great place to start looking.
I purchased my father a 240 Massakage Kato San gyuto for christmas and after handling it I had to have one myself.

If you purchase a good knife made with a good knife steel you should only have to sharpen it a couple times a year.
10 mins every week would be a little excessive.

El Pescador
01-27-2012, 06:55 PM
There isn't a right answer to this one. As to how how long/much should you sharpen you need to figure out if you like sharpening to begin with. if the meditative quality of Sharpening is something you want to not experience then I'd buy something super wear resistant. If you want something crazy Sharp all the time and think sharpening is for you then is go with a white steel blade.

Still-edo
01-27-2012, 07:16 PM
I've been thinking we senior dudes need to help out the new guys who are showing an interest in good knives a little bit more readily than we have been. For a while there, we definitely weren't being overly welcome. I had some INCREDIBLY generous makers and members show me the ropes when I first discovered this passion and just this week I was taken aback by one maker in particular. Consider this me, paying it forward.
What's a few bucks for shipping if it can help someone decide what they really like?
I'm sure you guys agree with me on this one.

Hey Lefty I think thats a really awesome attitude to have. Being a noob myself, it makes me that much more excited about knives, knowing there are people like you and forums like this to help fledgling knife connoisseurs like me.

Thanks!

Lefty
01-29-2012, 01:19 PM
Thanks, edo!
Well...the offer is about to expire....

scotts
01-29-2012, 06:53 PM
I will take you up on your offer, thanks Lefty!

Lefty
01-29-2012, 07:35 PM
Great! I'm glad I can help a bit.
I'll sharpen it up tomorrow to 6k or ohiro suita with a slight convex so you can play around with it.
PM me your address and I'll get it in the mail tomorrow or Tuesday. :)

Eamon Burke
01-30-2012, 12:03 AM
Nice, glad that worked out

Lefty
01-30-2012, 01:07 PM
All done the sharpening. I worked the j-nat for this one. It's a freakin' slicing and dicing machine!
Here's what you have to look forward to Scott.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/9e397ab1.jpg

Johnny.B.Good
01-30-2012, 01:09 PM
Good to see someone fanning the flames of addiction like this.

Pretty knife Lefty. Nice looking edge too.

heirkb
01-30-2012, 01:12 PM
Nice work, Lefty.

Eamon Burke
01-30-2012, 04:18 PM
lookin good

scotts
02-01-2012, 01:39 PM
I'll let you guys know what I think of the Nakiri that Lefty is lending me when it comes, I'm really excited to try a sharp J-knife!

JasonD
02-01-2012, 02:21 PM
Lefty, do you think you'll manage to get through your normal prep now that you don't have this knife for a little while? :D PS: It looks great and it's pretty awesome to see people helpin out the new guys.

Lefty
02-01-2012, 03:51 PM
Jason, i'm sure I'll manage. At work I use purely a cleaver and parer, because of wear and tear and the fact that everyone takes a turn, and at home I have my multiple gyutos, pettys, parers and a surprisingly great little Kiwi nakiri that had completely slipped my mind until right now! I'm looking forward to breaking it out again!

Andrew H
02-01-2012, 08:07 PM
Jason, i'm sure I'll manage. At work I use purely a cleaver and parer, because of wear and tear and the fact that everyone takes a turn, and at home I have my multiple gyutos, pettys, parers and a surprisingly great little Kiwi nakiri that had completely slipped my mind until right now! I'm looking forward to breaking it out again!

Would it happen to be this nakiri? http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/d6f3fa8d.jpg
:devilburn:

Lefty
02-01-2012, 11:15 PM
That's the beauty right there! I think it's in need of a face-lift.

scotts
02-27-2012, 12:18 AM
I just placed an order with Dave from Japanese Knife Imports (I should have called him in the first place) for a Yoshihiro 240mm Gyuto and a King #1000 stone. Dave was fantastic to deal with and even Skyped me (if you're reading this Dave I was having a lazy day :) so I could have a look at the different bolster colors on the knives he had in stock. I'm really excited to get the new knife and I'll post some pics when it arrives. Now I just have to decides on boards from The Boardsmith and I'll be set...for a while. Oh and Lefty I'll let you know when I ship your knife back.

JBroida
02-27-2012, 12:23 AM
I'm jon... dave is from japanese knife sharpening :P

scotts
02-27-2012, 12:34 AM
I'm jon... dave is from japanese knife sharpening :P

Bah sorry Jon, I was even sending emails to Dave (The Boardsmith) addressing him as John and he didn't correct me. I'm going to blame the large amount of snow we just got on my brain not functioning.

VoodooMajik
02-27-2012, 01:26 AM
Lefty, That's super cool of you.


You seem like a cool guy and you're Canadian. If you're not in a hurry, I have a great Yamawaku nakiri I can send you to try out. It's carbon steel, and very rustic, but you will be able to handle/use a properly sharpened and ground J-knife. It's a budget knife, but the thing out cuts most knives I've used.
Let me know :D

VoodooMajik
02-27-2012, 01:43 AM
sorry for the second post.

Lefty, You helped fuel my addiction (I've always loved my knives in a strange way) just by sharing. It makes me not only want to use better knives but show others how great it is. Thank you

And I can't imagine you guys not being welcoming, You guys have been great.

Johnny.B.Good
02-27-2012, 01:54 AM
Congrats on the new gyuto Scott. I like the looks of those Yoshihiros. I hope you'll post some pics and let us know what you think of it once it arrives.

Lefty
02-27-2012, 07:57 AM
Scott, what were your thoughts on the nakiri? Did it help you in your decision making process?
Congrats on taking the plunge. Jon won't steer you wrong.

scotts
02-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I really liked the Nakiri, but my wife wanted a smoother handle and we both agreed Carbon might not be a good fit for us at the moment (we washed and dried your knife immediately after each use but we don't want that for our permanent knife). Also the handle shape compared to our Henckels was a nice change, something my wife wasn't 100% sure on until she used the knife. It definitely also helped convince me that the weight (or lack thereof) of Japanese knives is a huge plus to German knives. I can already guess I'll be picking up a Nakiri in the future but I'll work on my cutting and sharpening technique more (and stash some more cash) before I buy something else. I'll post pictures when it comes.

red49er
02-27-2012, 04:34 PM
Hey Jon, Thanks again for spending so much time with my wife and I on Sunday afternoon. I thought sure picking out a new knife would be easier than it is turning out to be. If you think of another option (with the rounder, smoother wa style handle go ahead and e-mail me. Mike

scotts
05-21-2012, 06:27 PM
I finally got around to taking some pictures of my new knife, I've been really busy lately (mostly in the kitchen) but that's another story. Anyways here is the Yoshihiro 240mm Wa-Gyuto along with my new Mahogany Boardsmith board (which I'm having a hard time actually using, it's just so good looking!). I have to thank you again Lefty for lending me your Nakiri, you and everyone on this board have opened my eyes (and maybe my wallet lol) to the wonderful knives available.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7225/7244590322_8098fb3bb6.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/7244481328_f3866e15bc.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5311/7244477866_b207ec2214.jpg

99Limited
05-21-2012, 06:36 PM
Go Big or Go Home .... You definitely went big here. Good looking setup.

SpikeC
05-21-2012, 07:36 PM
Puurty.....