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View Full Version : Gyuto: Mighty vs Laser



JMJones
02-03-2012, 12:05 PM
What constitutes a "Mighty" gyuto and what constitues a "laser". How much differance is there between weight, thickness, grind, ect for a given blade lenght and what are the pro's and cons of each style.

Thoughts?

tk59
02-03-2012, 12:15 PM
Frankly, this is very subjective but generally speaking, a 240 gyuto that has a maximum spine thickness of ~2 mm with full distal taper is a laser. Anything that is forged will generally not be a laser because people will look at the spine over the heel and and the thickness will exceed 3 mm.

slowtyper
02-03-2012, 06:05 PM
I think its all in the "if you hold it, you will know".

I've always thought the term "mighty gyuto" is really dumb though. "Laser" too but not as bad as "mighty"!

Marko Tsourkan
02-03-2012, 06:25 PM
I think tk59 definitions is quite accurate.

I have never been a fan of lasers, mostly because the thinner the knife, the more flex there is (at 2mm it will flex at the handle) and the more flimsy it feels in one's hand.

You can control weight of the knife with how much metal you leave on the spine (distal taper) and mid section (grind). If you grind it thin at and above the edge, a knife will perform really well and extra weight will be beneficial if you do a lot of cutting (a feedback I got from a pro kitchen).

For me a performing mighty gyuto would be 3mm over the heel, 2.1mm (or so) half way, 1.7mm 2" from the tip and about 1mm 1/2" from the tip ground to less than .005 at the edge and thin above it.

M

Eamon Burke
02-03-2012, 06:52 PM
If we are voting, I agree with tk and Marko.

RRLOVER
02-03-2012, 06:57 PM
If we are voting, I agree with tk and Marko.

Count me in on that vote.I don't care for a super thin and flexy blade.

mhlee
02-03-2012, 07:19 PM
I agree with what tk and Marko describe as a laser, and mighty gyuto.

I also don't care for a blade that's somewhat flexible. Stiff is good.

NO ChoP!
02-03-2012, 07:20 PM
I don't find my lasers to have much flex, plus it would only be evident if one was using side to side torque, which wouldn't be involved in any form of proper gyuto technique.

tk59
02-03-2012, 07:25 PM
I don't find my lasers to have much flex, plus it would only be evident if one was using side to side torque, which wouldn't be involved in any form of proper gyuto technique.
I can't say I've had a problem with my "lasers," either. Sometimes, it is nice to have a heftier knife for slicing, though.

Lefty
02-03-2012, 07:26 PM
I agree with the guys, but I like thin sometimes and beef others.
So far, the best balance I've had of this is my Misono Swede. However, a Carter gyuto at about 2mm with no flex is also damned nice.

Marko Tsourkan
02-03-2012, 07:40 PM
The flex might not be evident on a short knife, but if you have a 240mm or 270mm knife with 2mm over the heel and you try to cut through a hunk of Swiss cheese, you will feel a flex.

It's all about preferences.

M

tk59
02-03-2012, 07:43 PM
The flex might not be evident on a short knife, but if you have a 240mm or 270mm knife with 2mm over the heel and you try to cut through a hunk of Swiss cheese, you will feel a flex...Actually, I don't and all of my lasers are 270's. This is what No Chop was talking about. If your technique is clean, you will not feel flex.

Marko Tsourkan
02-03-2012, 08:07 PM
This has not been my experience (cutting through Swiss cheese or any hard cheese for that matter in downward motion applying some pressure), but we might have different perception what flex is. Sort of like Bill Clinton's memorable phrase "it depends what is, is" :)

A distal taper plays a big role whether a knife flexes or not. if you have 2mm thick over a heel knife without a distal taper, you won't see much flex.

M

Andrew H
02-03-2012, 08:11 PM
I agree with Tk's definition. From a grind POV you have more room to work with on a thicker knife (ie for convexing), but a thin knife with a terrible grind will usually be better than a thick knife with a terrible grind.

Cadillac J
02-03-2012, 09:13 PM
I don't find my lasers to have much flex, plus it would only be evident if one was using side to side torque, which wouldn't be involved in any form of proper gyuto technique.

Agree 100%.

ecchef
02-03-2012, 09:15 PM
The flex might not be evident on a short knife, but if you have a 240mm or 270mm knife with 2mm over the heel and you try to cut through a hunk of Swiss cheese, you will feel a flex.
M

...or a "TINK". :( It was the Parmesan.


There are times when one style performs better than the other, but to echo what's already been said, it's got a lot to do with technique.

jgraeff
02-04-2012, 09:14 AM
I like a thin blade overall, however i feel that you need a happy medium depending on what you use it for. For me i love my Kono HD, however it flexes too much for hard things like root veggies or cheese.

I think a slight flex at the tip is ok, but if it flexes in the middle than it would be too much. I prefer is tin tip on the knife. Although i think if the grind is really good a thicker tip shouldn't be an issue.

JohnnyChance
02-06-2012, 02:49 PM
I don't find my lasers to have much flex, plus it would only be evident if one was using side to side torque, which wouldn't be involved in any form of proper gyuto technique.

But they are flexible, regardless if you notice it or not. And as a multitasker, the gyuto is often asked to do things more than straight forward cutting or chopping. You can live with the flex, but there is no real benefit to having a gyuto flex, so if you can make one with very little/no flex, why not?

tk59
02-06-2012, 02:53 PM
...the gyuto is often asked to do things more than straight forward cutting or chopping...I guess that is true to an extent. I just opened a coconut with the Burke proto. I probably wouldn't have done that with something really thin but that's pretty much it. What else do you do in the kitchen where a thin knife can't do it?

RRLOVER
02-06-2012, 09:03 PM
I guess that is true to an extent. I just opened a coconut with the Burke proto. I probably wouldn't have done that with something really thin but that's pretty much it. What else do you do in the kitchen where a thin knife can't do it?

OT: You really need to get a camera brother........Burke proto and no pics.Were is a SUPERMOD when you need one.

SpikeC
02-06-2012, 09:13 PM
OT: You really need to get a camera brother........Burke proto and no pics.Were is a SUPERMOD when you need one.

Having Supper??

tk59
02-06-2012, 10:07 PM
OT: You really need to get a camera brother........Burke proto and no pics.Were is a SUPERMOD when you need one.Haha. I have a camera. In fact, I have pics. I'm gonna post them in a week after a few other folks get a chance to see this knife and give me their opinions.

JohnnyChance
02-07-2012, 12:07 AM
I guess that is true to an extent. I just opened a coconut with the Burke proto. I probably wouldn't have done that with something really thin but that's pretty much it. What else do you do in the kitchen where a thin knife can't do it?

Open up #10 cans, Flay style. I prefer a stiff knife for digging out cores of cabbage, fennel, etc. And I don't care how good your technique is, a thin knife will take the path of least resistance through a big wheel of hard cheese, even if that means steering, bending and flexing. And extra blade weight is helpful in tons of tasks. A thin knife can do most things, but the flexibility is never benefit, so I just prefer a thicker one.


OT: You really need to get a camera brother........Burke proto and no pics.Were is a SUPERMOD when you need one.

I agree, shall I ban him?


Having Supper??

Bwahahaha!

Salty dog
02-07-2012, 07:59 AM
I apply left side pressure when chopping an onion quickly. It naturally brings the blade to your knuckle when it clears the onion. The faster you go the more pressure. (We're not talking about a ton here.) A flexible blade adds another variable when it does clear the onion. I find it is often the case for an onion to "porcupine" and I'm more likely to cut myself.

mhlee
02-07-2012, 12:20 PM
And I don't care how good your technique is, a thin knife will take the path of least resistance through a big wheel of hard cheese, even if that means steering, bending and flexing. And extra blade weight is helpful in tons of tasks. A thin knife can do most things, but the flexibility is never benefit, so I just prefer a thicker one.

I was thinking of this exact example as well. I've also tried using thinner knives for cutting through squash and I've always preferred a stiff knife for this task as well. I know people here have said that they prefer a thin knife for this task, but I've regularly had steering issues when cutting through hard squash like kabocha when using a thinner, flexible knife.

Eamon Burke
02-07-2012, 03:36 PM
I apply left side pressure when chopping an onion quickly. It naturally brings the blade to your knuckle when it clears the onion. The faster you go the more pressure. (We're not talking about a ton here.) A flexible blade adds another variable when it does clear the onion. I find it is often the case for an onion to "porcupine" and I'm more likely to cut myself.

I agree with this. You've got to use a slight pulling motion to finish the cut, and unless your knife is thin AND tall, it won't be easy not to graze your knuckles. This is the reason I now bring my CCK and my Shig to work and leave the Tojiro at home with the wife.

Lefty
02-07-2012, 09:09 PM
This is somewhat related, so I'll add it in. I've noticed that certain blades have more of a tendency to cut me. So far, I haven't cut myself with a Carter or Rodrigue (no flex), but I have cut myself with my Misonos, a Konosuke and a few other more flexy knives. Maybe what Salty said is the reason...I never put it together, before now.

stevenStefano
02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
I am not a huge fan of flexy knives, but one thing they are great for is mincing garlic. My 210 petty is a little flexy and is is perfect for turning garlic into a paste very quickly. The thing I don't like about flexy knives is they sort of limit their use. A couple of my thinner knives struggle to cut the top off an onion

NO ChoP!
02-08-2012, 12:01 PM
When working the sushi bar I learned to cut maki rolls. A long, dainty, feather light, upwards draw to break through the roll, ever so gently, as to not crush or damage it; followed by a quick downward to the heel sweep. I tout it the violin cut.

I have carried this long draw slice to my everyday work, and have found that lasers lend well to the technique...

Different strokes, they say; Harleys for some, Hiyabusas for others....

Salty dog
02-08-2012, 03:16 PM
Same reason you like your sujis.

Cadillac J
02-08-2012, 03:31 PM
Out of all my lasers, the only one that I would say where the flex can be a slight issue at times is my 210 Suisin petty, boy is it thin...like on another level of anorexia.

Even with sideways pressure while rapidly cutting with my Kono 300 suji, 270 suji or 270 gyuto, I have not run into the issues that others are mentioning here. These things aren't THAT flexible in my experience.

I like more robust knives like my Yoshikane too...depends on what I'm in the mood to use.

tk59
02-08-2012, 10:46 PM
...the only one that I would say where the flex can be a slight issue at times is my 210 Suisin petty, boy is it thin...like on another level of anorexia...+1 I must say, it was shocking to hold one for the first time.

Dieter01
02-09-2012, 12:40 PM
I just bought this: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11003.m43.l1123/7?euid=f817c2ace84f483a8d229211338e8964&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.d ll%3FViewItem%26item%3D380402829433%26ssPageName%3 DADME%3AB%3AEOIBSA%3AGB%3A1123

I don't expect it to do all tasks that a normal gyuto but still hope its going to be fun. Look forward to checking it out!

stevenStefano
02-09-2012, 12:59 PM
I just bought this: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11003.m43.l1123/7?euid=f817c2ace84f483a8d229211338e8964&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.d ll%3FViewItem%26item%3D380402829433%26ssPageName%3 DADME%3AB%3AEOIBSA%3AGB%3A1123

I don't expect it to do all tasks that a normal gyuto but still hope its going to be fun. Look forward to checking it out!

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it. The Sakai Yusuke knives are already very thin so it should be interesting to see what this one is like. I think there's been a few people looking at them but haven't pulled the trigger

JasonD
02-09-2012, 03:03 PM
Wow I just saw the choil shot on that Special Thin version. They aren't kidding.

olpappy
02-10-2012, 01:57 PM
No one tool can do every job well. That's why you need one knife for coconuts, one for squash, one for hard cheese, one for soft cheese, one for hard bread, one for soft bread, a cleaver to save your knuckles, a laser, a thin petty, and a mighty gyuto.

Also a mukimono, deba, mioroshi deba, kiritsuke, yanagi (one of each size), takohiki, fuguhiki, a curved Thai knife for carving chrysanthemums and a carving set for Halloween pumpkins.

Explain this to your wife.

Deckhand
02-10-2012, 02:03 PM
No one tool can do every job well. That's why you need one knife for coconuts, one for squash, one for hard cheese, one for soft cheese, one for hard bread, one for soft bread, a cleaver to save your knuckles, a laser, a thin petty, and a mighty gyuto.

Also a mukimono, deba, mioroshi deba, kiritsuke, yanagi (one of each size), takohiki, fuguhiki, a curved Thai knife for carving chrysanthemums and a carving set for Halloween pumpkins.

Explain this to your wife.

:biggrin: Love this! I don't even try. Easier just to let her buy a new pair of shoes, blouse,dress, pant suit, purse,etc.,etc.,etc.

olpappy
02-10-2012, 02:45 PM
Not a purse!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a0JlxwMQZD.I

http://forum.purseblog.com/handbags-and-purses/what-designer-purse-purses-would-you-buy-3000-a-729403.html

Valentine's Day is coming soon

tk59
02-10-2012, 07:35 PM
No one tool can do every job well. That's why you need one knife for coconuts...That's right. Everyone should own a Burke for coconuts, haha!

Deckhand
02-10-2012, 08:41 PM
Not a purse!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a0JlxwMQZD.I

http://forum.purseblog.com/handbags-and-purses/what-designer-purse-purses-would-you-buy-3000-a-729403.html

Valentine's Day is coming soon

You are right no purse shopping for my wife. I beat her to it she wanted a tv in the bedroom for a long time. Got it for her Valentine's Day. Thought I spent a lot until I saw those links :eek2:

Phip
02-13-2012, 09:16 PM
Closest thing I have to mighty is a Yoshikane SKD gyuto. Nice knife, but I feel like the Takeda, Konosuke HD, and Carter leave it in the dust. Even for things like winter squash, I much prefer the thin screaming sharp blades.