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View Full Version : Need a new line knife...



Vertigo
03-21-2011, 04:10 PM
And having some trouble deciding, so I thought I'd open the discussion up to suggestions.

We recently had a slight remodel in the kitchen, and the old crappy undercounter in my station got yanked to make room for a shiny new prep-top. As thrilled as I am to have my mise accessible from above now--no more ducking in and out of that cooler every 2 minutes--it meant loosing my full sized cutting board. Having a 270mm knife on a 6 inch wide board is awkward as all get out (I either hang off the back of the board, or bump into the lid of the cooler), so I think I need to invest in something smaller.

What I'm looking for:
Stainless, not semi or carbon. I can care for carbon all day long when prepping, but my coworkers are seriously disrespectful towards my knives when they're on the line, and they get mucked up. People grab them without asking, set crap on them, chop with them and then throw them in the bleach bucket. So I think I need to resign myself to stainless.
210mm should be the right length. Most of the German 8" knives at work are fine in the new station.Western Handled, because of the aforementioned abuse at the hands of my peers, I'd rather not deal with ho wood stained with blueberry juice.Monosteel would be ideal, as a matter of personal preference. "Stainless clad with stainless" doesn't click, for me.Flat Profiled, or as flat as possible, no big bellies like our German knives.Thin is in, though it needs enough legs to stand up to some abuse.Easy Sharpener, which may be a bit much to ask with everything else I'm looking for. But since it's going to get a ton of abuse, I need to be able to get it back into action quickly.

Any suggestions? I'm currently checking out the Misono 440, the Mac Pro, and the Masamoto VG, though I'm sure there are other (and possibly better?) options out there.

Thanks!

Pensacola Tiger
03-21-2011, 04:27 PM
Ask Jon Broida to special order you a 21cm Konosuke wa-petty with a stabilized handle. Meets all of you criteria except for "Western handled" and the stabilized handle should take care of the reason you want a Western handle. It'll take a few weeks to get, but it's worth it. Spaceconvoy did a great writeup of his, and it prompted me to order one from Jon. Mine should be here today.

http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?9758-New-Konosuke-HD-210mm-wa-petty-review-amp-pics

UglyJoe
03-21-2011, 04:28 PM
I'd look into the Konosuke stainless line through JCK. I know you said no wa handle, but they offer a "stabilized" handle option at no extra charge (I believe) which others on the various forums have put through the wringer (like left sitting in a jar with vinegar or some such for an extended period of time) and the handles have held up just fine. It fit's all your other criteria. If you really think western handle would be best I *think* that that is an option as well. On the plus side of the wa handle, some of your coworkers might be less inclined to grab it without a handle they are used to. I really think this is exactly what you are looking for, and it won't cost you an arm and a leg either...

UglyJoe
03-21-2011, 04:28 PM
UGH NINJA'D...

sigh

Yes, PT is right. You could also look at a 210 gyuto from the same line if you like something with a bit taller blade. I think a 210 petty and 210 suji in this series are going to about be the same knife, don't know what the difference would be.

Pensacola Tiger
03-21-2011, 04:30 PM
UGH NINJA'D...

sigh

Sorry. Two minds with the same thought...

obtuse
03-21-2011, 04:34 PM
How about a Minamoto Kotetsu from Japan blades http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/western-style/1146.html Swedish stainless, thin behind the edge. 185mm but the profile looks pretty flat.

UglyJoe
03-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Sorry. Two minds with the same thought...

You know what they say about great minds.

maxim
03-21-2011, 04:46 PM
I think Aritsugu A will be a good chose this link for western handle.

11000 yen is very cheap for 210mm western gyuto and you support Japanese when you buy direct :)

http://www.aritsugu.jp/cart/html/09gyt.htm

Vertigo
03-21-2011, 05:43 PM
On the plus side of the wa handle, some of your coworkers might be less inclined to grab it without a handle they are used to.
Genius!

My boss is one of the worst knife-abusers I've ever met. I've seen him rabidly hack away at a pile of lettuce with my Hattori HD santoku, hearing a metallic "clink, clink, clink" each time the blade came down. Turned out there was a honing steel hidden under the lettuce, and he either didn't notice or didn't care. To pour salt on the wound--which, given the state of the edge at this point, was great--he then tossed it from 10 feet into the dish pit, putting two big dings on the spine.

I doubt he would have even picked it up in the first place had it been a wa-handle. That's a great idea. It'll also be less likely to accidentally end up in the Hobart if it looks distinctive enough. Though... you never can tell what the hell these grubby-pawed 16 year old dishwashers are thinking.

The HD is "semi-stainless," right? Will it survive a few hours of tomatoes and citrus? If the boss ends up in my station and I end up in his (because he's a dizzy bimbo), will it suffer an extended stay in the bleach bucket?

A part of me thinks the best solution would be to just pick up a Victorinox for the line, and keep the good knives in the bag for when I can prep.

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

UglyJoe
03-21-2011, 05:51 PM
The HD is semistainless, yes. You'd have to ask an owner or JBroida about it's corrosion resistance for something like that. However, Konosuke also has a "real" stainless line, which is cheaper than the HD and might be more what you are looking for. Cheaper, so you won't be quite as paranoid about it, stabilized handle, right size, will include a saya. All you could want.

SpikeC
03-21-2011, 06:35 PM
"My boss is one of the worst knife-abusers I've ever met. I've seen him rabidly hack away at a pile of lettuce with my Hattori HD santoku, hearing a metallic "clink, clink, clink" each time the blade came down. Turned out there was a honing steel hidden under the lettuce, and he either didn't notice or didn't care. To pour salt on the wound--which, given the state of the edge at this point, was great--he then tossed it from 10 feet into the dish pit, putting two big dings on the spine."

This gave me actual chills down my spine! And you let him live?!?!? That belongs in the "worst things you've ever seen" thread!

obtuse
03-21-2011, 06:48 PM
"My boss is one of the worst knife-abusers I've ever met. I've seen him rabidly hack away at a pile of lettuce with my Hattori HD santoku, hearing a metallic "clink, clink, clink" each time the blade came down. Turned out there was a honing steel hidden under the lettuce, and he either didn't notice or didn't care. To pour salt on the wound--which, given the state of the edge at this point, was great--he then tossed it from 10 feet into the dish pit, putting two big dings on the spine."

This gave me actual chills down my spine! And you let him live?!?!? That belongs in the "worst things you've ever seen" thread!

+1 ouch! I say go with the victorinox...

Pensacola Tiger
03-21-2011, 07:07 PM
"My boss is one of the worst knife-abusers I've ever met. I've seen him rabidly hack away at a pile of lettuce with my Hattori HD santoku, hearing a metallic "clink, clink, clink" each time the blade came down. Turned out there was a honing steel hidden under the lettuce, and he either didn't notice or didn't care. To pour salt on the wound--which, given the state of the edge at this point, was great--he then tossed it from 10 feet into the dish pit, putting two big dings on the spine."

This gave me actual chills down my spine! And you let him live?!?!? That belongs in the "worst things you've ever seen" thread!

"I conclude it was Vertigo, in the kitchen, with the knife."

shankster
03-21-2011, 07:11 PM
+1 ouch! I say go with the victorinox...

Agreed.Considering you work with a bunch of disrespectful buffoons,I'd go with the victorinox..

SpikeC
03-21-2011, 07:19 PM
If they weren't so overpriced I would say Cutco.

spaceconvoy
03-21-2011, 07:23 PM
In that environment, I wouldn't recommend any Konosuke. No matter how big a microbevel you put on it, they're still very thin behind the edge and won't stand up to serious abuse. The Misono would be a better choice, but from what I hear, maybe not the best for edge retention. I second going with the Aritsugu A, which at 210mm should be thinner behind the edge than the 270 most people complain about.

And I wouldn't worry about the wa handle so much - soak it overnight in mineral oil and it should be pretty resistant to most stains.

Not sure about buying it direct, since they might want you to pay by bank transfer, but you should definitely try sending them an email and report back your findings :) Aframestokyo would be another source.

Vertigo
03-21-2011, 07:55 PM
"I conclude it was Vertigo, in the kitchen, with the knife."
Ha!

It was surreal, for sure. I think a lot of my anger was offset by the compassion I have for the poor bastard. The first time I went to work for him was '94, and he was already 23 years into running a high volume restaurant. By now, hell, it's a miracle he's even on his feet. He just bumbles up and down the line breaking our eggs, burning our toast, sticking his ass crack out as he shoves the shop-vac under the grill (in the middle of service), shouts profanity at the dining room, and occasionally mangles my cutlery.

So yeah, I wanted to be mad... but he's an old, tired dog, too stuck in his ways and too stubborn to know when to quit. There but for the Grace of God will I go.


Agreed.Considering you work with a bunch of disrespectful buffoons,I'd go with the victorinox..

Yeah, the more I sound this out the more it seems like the logical choice. Hell, the one time I left my Misono carbon at work (in the back, on my shelf, in it's saya), the night shift took it out, abused it, and left it wet on the mag strip where I found it--and it's fancy new rust!--the next morning.

:angry1:

SpikeC
03-21-2011, 08:03 PM
I used to work with another jeweler who was a tool abuser. He was always trying to borrow my tools because his were dull and messed up. Drove me bonkers. I hid stuff, but could not turn my back on him!

Kyle
03-21-2011, 08:37 PM
Yeah, the more I sound this out the more it seems like the logical choice. Hell, the one time I left my Misono carbon at work (in the back, on my shelf, in it's saya), the night shift took it out, abused it, and left it wet on the mag strip where I found it--and it's fancy new rust!--the next morning.

:angry1:

This is infuriating, not just because the knife was mistreated, but the principal of it! I work in a mechanic shop (I help run the shop, but I'm not actually a mechanic) and every now and then I will borrow one of the guy's tools while I do simple repairs on my own car such as an oil change or a brake job. Anyways, I ALWAYS ask permission and everytime I bring a tool back I show it to them so they know that not only is it back in their possession but it hasn't been misused. Some of the guys will grab tools from another guy's box and might keep it for a few days. Who in their right mind thinks this is acceptable behavior?!? :angry1:

kalaeb
03-21-2011, 09:48 PM
I would agree with spaceconvoy on this one, definately no konosuke in that environment. But I just can't bring myself to go with the forschner either. I just bought a cheap fujiwara stainless for a new prep cook that has actually turned out to be a pretty good knife, larger primary bevels say 18-20 degrees and it should put up to some abuse, but still cut better than a german knife. Either that or a tojiro, their 210 is a pretty good all rounder, my only grip is the lack of height.

good luck, kick your boss for me when you get a chance.

JohnnyChance
03-21-2011, 11:40 PM
How about a Gekko/Inuzama from JCK? Korin also sells the same knife from under the name Togiharu, but I didn't see a gyuto in their lineup.

rysara
03-22-2011, 02:57 AM
Jesus. I would've had their hand if they treated my knives like that. Boss or not. I don't care, that's simple disrespect. In that kind of environment, I would go to the asian store, buy a box of cheap ass knives and a cleaver, pull out your knives for prep and keep them with you wherever you go, then for service, put your good stuff away, pull out your cheap ass knives and go to town. Once they get dull, throw it away or give it to your boss so he can eat cereal with them.

Eamon Burke
03-22-2011, 12:45 PM
I had a really overbearing, rude boss(he was a head sushi chef, brother of the owner, go figure). Nobody criticized him to his face, and he'd fly off the handle and insult people all the time(turnover was high). One day, he was about to put soap on my shapton pro(he wasn't using it, just helping) and I screamed, and jumped like a startled fox. He gave it right back.

I would not tolerate ANYONE screwing with my stuff.

Cadillac J
03-22-2011, 04:33 PM
Others suggested a Konosuke 210 petty (I have its cousin the Suisin inox 210 petty and love it), I definitely would want something cheaper/tougher in that environment...

...there is something about the Hiromoto G3 210 sujihiki for under $100 that really has my attention. Looks like a great all-around knife to me.

Audi's or knives
03-22-2011, 11:33 PM
What about a Fujiwara FKM 210 gyuto or suji, fits most of your req's, not sure on the thinness since I've never used one; there pretty cheap as well. 210 FKM $68 @ JCK. I have a Konosuke HD petty and would highly recommend but your kitchen would destroy that in 2 days. Maybe Jon @ JKI could source you something that would work.

K-Fed
03-23-2011, 10:47 AM
I think a stainless Yoshihiro would fit the bill of the not to thick, not to thin and not too expensive gyuto, and is to my knowledge in stock at JKI. Or was last time I was eyeballing them.