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dragonlord
02-23-2012, 12:24 PM
What type of knife(s) do you think you want?

I've been browsing this and other knife forums for a couple of days and I've narrowed it down to these 3

http://www.akro.co.uk/kai_shun_chefs_knife_25cm.php

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tojiro-Senkou-Chefs-Knife-21cm/dp/B000VRXU0Y/

http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/KNIVES/SINGLELAYERSTAINLESSSTEEL/SUISIN/GYUTO240MM/tabid/290/Default.aspx

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

As I'm getting better at working in the kitchen my current 20 knife is showing it's limitations

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?

Edge Quality/Retention-
Blunts far, far to quickly (after a punnet of mushrooms)

What grip do you use?
Still developing my grip

What kind of cutting motion do you use?

still developing

Where do you store them?

currently in a drawer, but will be buying a magnetic wall mount.

Have you ever oiled a handle?

nope, but will if necessary

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?

wooden or plastic

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?

Mino sharp and steel atm
Have they ever been sharpened?

yes

What is your budget?

100-200
What do you cook and how often?
anything we decide to eat for dinner, and pretty much once a day every day.


Which of the knives above do you recommend (or any others), and which suppliers would you recommend for them?

oivind_dahle
02-23-2012, 12:36 PM
I recommend a gyuto. Most here recommend 240 or 270, but for a home chef I found 225 to be ideal. However they are hard to find so 210, would be a good length for you :)

If you want carbon: 210 Carbonext is a hottie
If you want semi stainless the Konosuke HD 210 is a hottie
If you want stainless I would go for torjo DP or Fujiwara FKM series (these are really cheap and great starters)

The Hiromoto is also a knife you would find fun to start off with. Its a nice learner knife...

ManateeAndy
02-23-2012, 01:05 PM
Hiromoto As, Carbonext, Fujiwara FKM are good reccomendations, check http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/products.html as they ship cheap to uk, i'd also reccomend getting a stone http://www.axminster.co.uk/ice-bear-japanese-combination-waterstones-prod22468/?searchfor=japanese%20combination%20waterstones 1,000/6,000 is a good starter stone.

dragonlord
02-23-2012, 03:27 PM
Would any of the knives I linked to be appropriate ? As I'd rather not import if possible

El Pescador
02-23-2012, 03:35 PM
I was lucky enough to use a Suisin at JKI. Thats a great knife and the last of the ones you have listed.

Pesky

Johnny.B.Good
02-23-2012, 03:43 PM
If I had to choose between the three you listed as finalists I would go with the Suisin as well (based solely on my reading here and elsewhere).

DanB
02-23-2012, 03:51 PM
I have a Tojiro Senkou 240mm that I am very happy with. But it's a somewhat different style than the one you linked with here (which in the states is called Flash). Cutleryandmore has what I'm talking about, and it's listed on Tojiro's site too. Not too expensive, very sharp, very nice fit and finish.

Timthebeaver
02-23-2012, 05:22 PM
Buy from japanesechefsknife. No probs with HMRC.

Deckhand
02-23-2012, 05:39 PM
I have a Tojiro Senkou 240mm that I am very happy with. But it's a somewhat different style than the one you linked with here (which in the states is called Flash). Cutleryandmore has what I'm talking about, and it's listed on Tojiro's site too. Not too expensive, very sharp, very nice fit and finish.
I think senkou and flash are different lines of Tojiro. I have a couple tojiros I like them a lot. That being said I ditto the Suisin comment. It is on my list of better knives also based solely on reading about them.

Deckhand
02-23-2012, 05:40 PM
Post Error

JLH
02-23-2012, 05:42 PM
Would any of the knives I linked to be appropriate ? As I'd rather not import if possible

from my experience it is better to import, can sometimes even work out cheaper...but saying that you can't get knives that you find from CKTG and JKI on any site in the UK. I bought a konosuke fujiyama 240mm gyuto from chef knives to go and with shipping it came to $230 which is less then 200 pound. It worked out abit more with import duty but i suppose its worth it. You should check out the konosuke HD or White #2 gyuto. You can get sharpening stones from edenwebshops.co.uk for a reasonable price at a later date to keep your knife in check...the prices on there to the uk are pretty good.

Johnny.B.Good
02-23-2012, 05:46 PM
Buy from japanesechefsknife. No probs with HMRC.

If you haven't checked out this website, do so.

dragonlord
02-23-2012, 06:09 PM
Just used this (http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/) site to work out how much an HD-8 would cost to import (before post office holding charges) and it works out at 182 total cost to land, which unfortunately is at the top end of my budget

edit : corrected price

VoodooMajik
02-23-2012, 06:18 PM
I have a similiar shun, 8" hollow ground. I really like the knife, really sharp.

Timthebeaver
02-23-2012, 06:19 PM
Just used this (http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/) site to work out how much an HD-8 would cost to import (before post office holding charges) and it works out at 182 total cost to land, which unfortunately is at the top end of my budget

edit : corrected price

import duty will be nil with jck unless you want to tell them otherwise.

dragonlord
02-23-2012, 06:20 PM
ok, how does that work? or do they just not label the package with anything useful?

Timthebeaver
02-23-2012, 06:25 PM
ok, how does that work? or do they just not label the package with anything useful?

Japanese EMS shipping is awesome. Very fast and reliable.

140 quid for that Suisin moly is an absolute rip off. Everything on that japanese knife company site is wildly overpriced. Some of the descriptions/prices for what are OEM blades are ridiculous.

dragonlord
02-23-2012, 06:39 PM
Makes sense now, thanks :goodpost:

stevenStefano
02-23-2012, 06:42 PM
As others have said, I'd recommend you narrow your search to JCK. $7 shipping and it usually takes 3 days, pretty amazing service. Basically there is nowhere in the UK I'd buy a knife, they all rip you off and try to blind you with ********. As Tim says, so many of the knives are just rebranded and pretty low quality but from the marketing speil and price you'd think they were Centuries old samurai swords. Getting things from the US and Japan from other vendors is always very smooth, import duties usually aren't too bad, just a bit of a delay that is all. But you don't need to worry about that with JCK, I'd go for the Carbonext or Hiromoto AS if I were you

JLH
02-23-2012, 06:53 PM
I'd put tax around 25-35 if shipped from the US, i may order from jck in future if tax is nil

Timthebeaver
02-23-2012, 06:55 PM
As others have said, I'd recommend you narrow your search to JCK. $7 shipping and it usually takes 3 days, pretty amazing service. Basically there is nowhere in the UK I'd buy a knife, they all rip you off and try to blind you with ********. As Tim says, so many of the knives are just rebranded and pretty low quality but from the marketing speil and price you'd think they were Centuries old samurai swords. Getting things from the US and Japan from other vendors is always very smooth, import duties usually aren't too bad, just a bit of a delay that is all. But you don't need to worry about that with JCK, I'd go for the Carbonext or Hiromoto AS if I were you

^ This.

Carbonext clearly a value leader. Hiromoto G3 a solid option in stainless, made from Hitachi's highly tegarded ginsan-ko steel.

dragonlord
02-23-2012, 07:07 PM
Ok, new list of 2

Hiromoto As 240mm gyuto
Hattori hd-8 (also 240mm gyuto)

Note : can't find carbonext on the site

El Pescador
02-23-2012, 07:11 PM
its a house brand knife (carbonext)

Timthebeaver
02-23-2012, 07:11 PM
Most would plump for the Hiro, which was the "it" knife (or very close) at one point. The Hattori will be panned by the Vg10 haters, others will say Hattori Vg10 > other Vg10

Johnny.B.Good
02-23-2012, 07:12 PM
Note : can't find carbonext on the site

That website could use some serious help, but don't let that stop you from buying with confidence.

http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html

James
02-23-2012, 07:13 PM
You need to go to JCK original to find the carbonext. AS and G3 are solid choices as well.

Crothcipt
02-23-2012, 07:19 PM
I have been thinking about buying that knife from there, just to see if I like the style. I have spent more for knives I don't like so good deal.

dragonlord
02-23-2012, 07:19 PM
Ok, so maintainance wise, the hiro g series and carboNext series would be good, what advantage would the hiro as or Hattori hd series give me, as a relative beginner with quality knives?

Timthebeaver
02-23-2012, 07:28 PM
AS is carbon core, stainless clad. Requires more maintenance, slightly harder steel. easy to sharpen imo. carbonext is semistainess tool steel. Easier to care for than the hiro as. G3 is one piece of stainless steel, decently hard, easy to sharpen imo. Hattori is stainless clad vg10. Not made by hattori iirc, an OEM blade (rebadge). Poor value for money imo.

Lots of reports saying that the carbonext has a crap edge out of the box, which may be a concern.

James
02-23-2012, 07:31 PM
hattori hd is a beautiful knife with great fit and finish and it's nice and thin behind the edge. the vg-10 core steel is only mediocre though.

the hiro AS can take a mean edge and hold it a long time; basically it gives you the advantage of having a good carbon steel without the maintenance.

Of the 4 knives, here's the preference for me: carbonext=hiro AS -> hiro g3 -> hattori hd.

dragonlord
02-24-2012, 02:25 AM
Ok, thanks for all the advice, I'm probably going to go for the hiro as tj-20

dragonlord
02-24-2012, 02:31 AM
For future reference, what are the hiro Damascus line like?

MadMel
02-24-2012, 02:47 AM
For future reference, what are the hiro Damascus line like?

I'd stay away..
If you get more confident with knives and sharpening, a whole other new world opens up. If you are serious about Damascus, look at DT's or any of the forum vendors for that matter.

Timthebeaver
02-24-2012, 05:21 AM
For future reference, what are the hiro Damascus line like?

VG-10 core clad stainless "damascus" purely for cosmetic effect. Just like a Hattori (OEM) HD.

jmforge
02-24-2012, 12:52 PM
The 240 Carbonext was my first foray into gyutos and it is a lot of knife for the money.

tk59
02-24-2012, 10:49 PM
For a homecook, the Hiro is just an okay knife. I once had a guy with a Hiro come by, try out a CarboNEXT and hasn't touched his Hiro since. CarboNEXT is easily a better performer than the Hattori and I am not a "VG-10 hater." The best VG-10 knife Hattori offers is the HD. The geometry on that line is far better than the FH line. The Suisin INOX is a very nice cutter with excellent fit and finish for the price. I'd also go for an Inazuma.

dragonlord
02-27-2012, 02:50 PM
Just ordered the JCK Original KAGAYAKI CarboNext Series KC-7 Gyuto 270mm from JCK.

Thanks for all the advice (will be picking up a water stone soon too)

dragonlord
03-04-2012, 04:03 PM
01-03-2012 17:07 International Hub Awaiting Customs clearance

GAH :( I wonder how much longer they can keep my knife in customs.

Cadillac J
03-04-2012, 04:31 PM
It's okay though...more time to practice sharpening, as the CN edge isn't impressive out of the box at all.

stevenStefano
03-04-2012, 04:39 PM
01-03-2012 17:07 International Hub Awaiting Customs clearance

GAH :( I wonder how much longer they can keep my knife in customs.

I hope they aren't cracking down on the cheap shipping. Has it been there long? If I have to pay customs it can be there for 4-5 days, if not it flies through

dragonlord
03-04-2012, 06:12 PM
been there since the 1st March

Crothcipt
03-04-2012, 06:29 PM
I got a knife from hong kong last week, it was opened by homeland security. The time held was nothing got is a day sooner than I was expecting.

NO ChoP!
03-04-2012, 08:54 PM
Congrats on a great purchase dragonlord; carboNEXT is sure to impress!!! Hopefully it shows up soon for you!


(This thread is how "which Knife" posts are supposed to go; good info and questions/ good answers/ right purchase)

dragonlord
03-05-2012, 11:01 AM
05-03-2012 14:46 International Hub Awaiting Customs Charging

Well it now looks like I'm going to have to pay some customs fees.

stevenStefano
03-05-2012, 11:39 AM
05-03-2012 14:46 International Hub Awaiting Customs Charging

Well it now looks like I'm going to have to pay some customs fees.

I hope you just got unlucky. I feel for you since everyone already told you that you won't have to pay customs, I haven't heard of anyone ever having to before

dragonlord
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
OK, current HMRC rules are that items below 15 don't attract duty or VAT

Items below 135 pay VAT but don't pay duty

And all other items pay both

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document#P28_2966

stevenStefano
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Honestly I have no clue how it works and it has seemingly been pretty random what I have had to pay. Usually it's about 20 or 30 but one time they charged me a lot more. Another thing to consider is a "handling fee" which Parcelforce usually charge which can sometimes be about 20. Perhaps other UK people can add their input, that is just my experience

Timthebeaver
03-05-2012, 01:20 PM
Honestly I have no clue how it works and it has seemingly been pretty random what I have had to pay. Usually it's about 20 or 30 but one time they charged me a lot more. Another thing to consider is a "handling fee" which Parcelforce usually charge which can sometimes be about 20. Perhaps other UK people can add their input, that is just my experience

Sorry to hear your package has been held, I, like others, have ordered from JCK before with no issue. Steven's estimate of 20-30 quid is about right, there is a formula you/they can use but as above it just seems to be random. Doubt you'll be shafted on a single knife.

TB_London
03-05-2012, 03:59 PM
When I've ordered from JCK I've not had them stopped before, hopefully a one off. 20-30 sounds about right, hopefully it'll clear customs soon

dragonlord
03-06-2012, 06:39 AM
I've got my knife now, I'll let you know if I get an invoice for duty in a few days time.

TB_London
03-06-2012, 09:30 AM
Ususally parcel force make you go and pick it up from them and you have to pay before you get the package, so looks like you may be ok. Fingers crossed anyway

dragonlord
03-06-2012, 09:40 AM
I wonder if it got held because it was a knife and they needed to check if there was anything odd with it or something like that.

stevenStefano
03-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Sounds to me like you won't have to pay anything, can't see why they'd give you the knife then charge you afterwards

DanB
03-06-2012, 10:54 AM
It's okay though...more time to practice sharpening, as the CN edge isn't impressive out of the box at all.

I think you can order the ES (extra sharpening) service that puts a waterstone edge on it before it ships. Extra $15 I think.

dragonlord
03-06-2012, 11:14 AM
I did order the ES package, and compared to my current knives it's super sharp :)

Cadillac J
03-06-2012, 11:31 AM
I think you can order the ES (extra sharpening) service that puts a waterstone edge on it before it ships. Extra $15 I think.

You can, but I haven't heard good things about it.

Flee
03-06-2012, 12:44 PM
I ordered my carbonext gyuto with the ES option and realised what a waste of money it was when the standard factory edge on my Blazen was better.
I managed to get it much sharper myself and it was only the third knife I had sharpened at the time.

dragonlord
03-06-2012, 01:21 PM
I ordered it with the ES due to the fact that it cost my entire discretionary budget for the month, so I can't afford to buy the rest of the sharpening gear until april.