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Chef Niloc
02-27-2012, 04:10 PM
Ok I'm going to add back some BBQ dishes to my menu this summer. I have done quite a bit in the past but over the pad 10 years I have worked at restaurants that already came equipped with altosham smoker. I like the smoker a lot and I'm inclined to just buy one for my place. The only drawbacks to the unit are one: the price ( about 5k ). 2nd: I kind of wish it had more/ longer amount of smoke, the timber box runs hot and is small so you only get a hour or two of smoke. The unit is sealed well (big big plus or most fall of the bone BBQ. and the smokey air does stay in there, so this is not that big a deal but thought id mention it. having never shopped around I thought it couldn't hurt to ask for other options and opinions.

Being a full service restaurant but not a BBQ joint as well as living in new York ( not much good BBQ competition) I think I would like to stick with a electric smoker (like the altoshaam) for the following reasons:
The controlled slow cooking capability is a must. I have to be able to load the box up at the end of the night (2-4 am) and be able to go to sleep, come back with out any worry that I'm going to come back to over cooked meat.
Not a must but a big plus is the altoshaam has hot holding capability.

I guess what I'm asking is with altoshaam you are paying a little bit extra for the name. Is there a better and or just as good smoker for 5k or less?

I there any reason I should consider a none electric smoker?

Salty dog
02-27-2012, 04:31 PM
what kind of capacity you looking at?

mhlee
02-27-2012, 06:09 PM
Based on my research, at that price, there aren't many options for electric smokers especially if you want one with the capacity to do longer burns. There's the Fast Eddy FEC-100 (pellet fed), cabinet Cookshack models, the Ole Hickory CTO (gas and wood capability but more than 5000 if I recall correctly) and a few other cabinet type smokers that burn chunks of wood. Those are the ones that come to mind. I'm sure there are lots more at that price point, but from what I recall reading, the problem is that many are not compatible for indoor use because they cannot be properly vented or have the exhaust configured for indoor use.

Kyle
02-27-2012, 06:40 PM
I can 100% recommend the Fast Eddy FEC-100 by Cookshack. It'll run you about $3700 plus freight, but it has a lot of capacity, is very efficient and dead simple to operate. My dad and I have been cooking on one for years and it's held up really well, and we haven't really babied it. Temperature control is dead simple; just set it to your desired temp and leave it alone. I've heard it referred to as the outdoor oven because it's so easy to use. When you load the hopper full of pellets you will easily get 12-18 hours of non-stop smoking depending on your desired temps. It provides a great, authentic smokey flavor without being overly smokey and turning off people who aren't used to strong smoke flavors. You can only use wood pellets, but they're really cheap (about $15/bag), easy to find and come in a variety of woods. This is a true BBQ rig that wins competitions for many teams all the time and will be equally at home in a restaraunt.

The venting will probably be an issue if it must be run indoors, so I'm not sure how to work around that, but it's the one electric powered smoker that I can provide any real input on and if you can run it outside of the restaraunt or figure out how to vent the smoke outside then I can recommend it 100%.

http://www.cookshack.com/store/Smokers_4/Fast-Eddys-by-Cookshack-Model-FEC100

Jim
02-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Colin,
I have no personal experience with the smoker you mentioned but thought I would throw out that the meats you are BBQing will not absorb smoke after a certain point is reached with the surface temps. A few hours should be fine for flavor. I know Fette Sau in Brooklyn uses alto shaam ovens for their BBQ.

Crothcipt
02-27-2012, 07:50 PM
I dont know how much the owner payed for this one, but he said he got it for a steal off of ebay.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
easy settings, we use it now primarily as a alto sham now.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
with casters it stands over 5 ft, with 6 shelves inside.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
I have always wanted to plumb a still for liquid smoke from it. also would be good for cold smoking.

The smoke pellets usually take about 2hrs to go through, but I have still seen smoke in there 8hrs after we turned off the smoker part. It stays sealed very well. Not sure about the company if they are even around.

Chef Niloc
02-27-2012, 08:45 PM
I only need about 80lb capacity. I have been looking around myself and the cookshack's seem to be good chose, southern pride looks good too. Both seem to be better smokers then the alto. The ole hickory cto looks great too

sachem allison
02-27-2012, 08:51 PM
try cabela's they have a bunch of quality large capacity electric smokers at good prices.

Crothcipt
02-27-2012, 08:58 PM
this seemed what I think you were looking for, and its new
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bradley-Original-Black-Smoker-/120866166689?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item1c242f57a1#ht_556wt_1396

hax9215
02-27-2012, 09:28 PM
I know Fast Eddy personally, have competed against him many times. If you must have an electric, his is the best I have seen. What most of us REAL smokers (no offense, there is no barbeque north of Philadelphia and the pitmaster at the Firehouse is a Memphis native :flame:) is use a wood fire and tend it throughout the day. At Mark's the dishwashers light the fire as part of their opening duties, the cooks load the smoker for the first run at 9:00AM. and the chef monitors the temperature humidity etc. and adjusts the fire accordingly; more meat more wood, clear day more water pans, etc. Is a wood fire out of the question in the city?

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!!

jmforge
02-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Another question is are you going to go the "purist" route? The competition guys have to smoke for 18 hours, have the smoker facing magnetic north, pray to the BBQ gods five times a day, etc, etc, but I have been to more than one very highly rated BBQ place in my time that committed cardinal sins like parboiling ribs briefly before they went into the pit.

hax9215
02-27-2012, 10:43 PM
PARBOILING RIBS?? No BBQ in Florida either, apparently. No offense, but there is a reason a lot of the competition guys's excess. btw, I align my smoker on a back azimuth to Memphis, not magnetic North! :D


Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

El Pescador
02-28-2012, 01:11 AM
Combi ovens are the secret to good BBQ.

Chef Niloc
02-28-2012, 04:02 AM
Combi ovens are the secret to good BBQ.

?? Do tell B/C I got just about the best combi oven out there, thing cost more then my car.

I just want to add a few items to my menu, not turn the place into a BbQ joint. I grew up in Lake Charles, so I got deep south blood in me, good cooked at a few good spots over my 12 year cooking span in Louisiana, Arkansas, and south Carolina, just to name a few...yes it is true no good BBQ in NY with out looking real hard. Most will have to look hard to find me as well but my sauce, dry rub, and skills are just as good as 80% of the competition boys. Make a mean mustard Q, but that won't be on my NY menu, sad.

I smoke in a misquote cherry mix

hax9215
02-28-2012, 05:54 AM
:angryexplode: Hot and fast! How much volume do you really need, then? I really think the Fast Eddy may be your best bet. Good luck! I have a mustard sauce named Sweet Caroline that has not made it to the bottle stage yet, along with 4-F made with my own hard cider moonshine. (A felony to make it, a felony to posess it, one to move across state lines, and one to sell it-giving it away counts at a competition counts) And yes the revenooers WILL write it all up seperately. :shotgun: I have some friends in the Kentucky Moonshine Society that will attest. Unofficially banned in KCBS and in writing at Memphis in May. I should smuggle some up there; the ATF has no sense of humor regarding shine in KY, I can't imagine what they are like up there!

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

Chef Niloc
02-28-2012, 06:16 AM
:angryexplode: Hot and fast! How much volume do you really need, then? I really think the Fast Eddy may be your best bet. Good luck! I have a mustard sauce named Sweet Caroline that has not made it to the bottle stage yet, along with 4-F made with my own hard cider moonshine. (A felony to make it, a felony to posess it, one to move across state lines, and one to sell it-giving it away counts at a competition counts) And yes the revenooers WILL write it all up seperately. :shotgun: I have some friends in the Kentucky Moonshine Society that will attest. Unofficially banned in KCBS and in writing at Memphis in May. I should smuggle some up there; the ATF has no sense of humor regarding shine in KY, I can't imagine what they are like up there!

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

So what your saying is I'm going to have me some of the best white lighting some time soon? Love it!

Crothcipt
02-28-2012, 08:56 PM
love that mix of woods, the last time I smoked I used cherry and apple wood on antelope (pronghorn). Everyone wanted more but didnt' have anymore, I didn't even get some.

hax9215
02-28-2012, 10:36 PM
So what your saying is I'm going to have me some of the best white lighting some time soon? Love it!

No current plans to visit NYC, but if I get the opportunity I will definitlely bring some! btw, this is hard cider; using apples and yeast rather than corn sour mash. Not as strong, ~ 130-140 proof, but much tastier!

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

sw2geeks
02-29-2012, 12:31 AM
I have two Pellet smokers and love them. As easy as using an oven, just set the temp and the hoper feeds the pellets to maintain the temp you set. I think Traegers commercial units start at $2,000 and go up to around $10,000. Of course I just have the backyard home style Traeger's, being just a home cook.

Chef Niloc
02-29-2012, 12:50 AM
Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

Yes they do! I keep this little one in the trunk of my car, never know when you might have to split a hog

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/8ca1e8e2.jpg


O and a whole line of Betty's

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/a5172abc.png
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/782e14b8.jpg

Crothcipt
02-29-2012, 12:51 AM
I now so want to take that in to work. Show how extreme my problem isn't yet.:scared4:

Kyle
02-29-2012, 01:01 AM
Do any of those cleavers get much use or is it mostly just a really cool collection?

hax9215
02-29-2012, 02:06 AM
Impressed!

Hax thee Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

jmforge
03-01-2012, 02:26 AM
I come from Kentucky originally and their ain't no BBQ there either..........unless you count sheep as BBQ. ;-)
PARBOILING RIBS?? No BBQ in Florida either, apparently. No offense, but there is a reason a lot of the competition guys's excess. btw, I align my smoker on a back azimuth to Memphis, not magnetic North! :D


Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

hax9215
03-01-2012, 03:47 AM
I would maintain that only in Kentucky could a pitmaster effectively smoke sheep! (For all of you yankees, Owensboro style BBQ utilizes mutton.) Seriously, parboiling? HERESY!! DE-VIL!! DE-VIL!! BLAS-PHEMERRR!!!! :devilburn: ;-(p

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

Chef Niloc
03-02-2012, 04:49 PM
Do any of those cleavers get much use or is it mostly just a really cool collection?

I use two smaller old beattys almost every day, size 0 nd 2. That big boy is a #10 and has only been used to behead some large fish that has hit my dock. I also have a few lamb splitters that get used a lot. But to fully answer the question I have been trying to collect one of each size of Beatty in as good a shape as I can find.
This got harder when I learned that not only were there the "Beatty and son" cleavers made from cast steel that most of you know of, made from around 1820's-1900. In around 1940 one of the Beatty's daughters marred a mr. Briddell from that point on all the knives were stamped Briddell. But a older (also cast steel) cleavers made by the stamped " W. Beatty PA". These were made from around 1720-1750, he was the grandfather of the William Beatty from Beatty and son.
But hold on I'm not done yet a even older cast steel cleaver made by John Beaty from around 1680-1720, stamped "J Beatty Ulster Co NY" that's the one in the picture above.
AND! From what i can tell the oldest Beatty cleavers made stamped "Thomas Beatty Forged Down Co. Ireland 1662". If I'm right these were made by the great great grand uncle of the "Beatty and sons" in county down Ireland. I found this cleaver in a antique store in PA thing looks like it was never used, funny my oldest Beatty is the one in the best condition.

So there's lots of Beatty's out there.

Deckhand
03-02-2012, 04:53 PM
Really cool info. Great collection.

Kyle
03-02-2012, 06:33 PM
I use two smaller old beattys almost every day, size 0 nd 2. That big boy is a #10 and has only been used to behead some large fish that has hit my dock. I also have a few lamb splitters that get used a lot. But to fully answer the question I have been trying to collect one of each size of Beatty in as good a shape as I can find.
This got harder when I learned that not only were there the "Beatty and son" cleavers made from cast steel that most of you know of, made from around 1820's-1900. In around 1940 one of the Beatty's daughters marred a mr. Briddell from that point on all the knives were stamped Briddell. But a older (also cast steel) cleavers made by the stamped " W. Beatty PA". These were made from around 1720-1750, he was the grandfather of the William Beatty from Beatty and son.
But hold on I'm not done yet a even older cast steel cleaver made by John Beaty from around 1680-1720, stamped "J Beatty Ulster Co NY" that's the one in the picture above.
AND! From what i can tell the oldest Beatty cleavers made stamped "Thomas Beatty Forged Down Co. Ireland 1662". If I'm right these were made by the great great grand uncle of the "Beatty and sons" in county down Ireland. I found this cleaver in a antique store in PA thing looks like it was never used, funny my oldest Beatty is the one in the best condition.

So there's lots of Beatty's out there.


Wow, I knew the Beatty history goes pretty far back and can be confusing at some points with fathers and sons and cousins all manufacturing cleavers under the Beatty name at the same time, but I had no idea it went as far back as the 1600s.

Is there a good source for Beatty info or is that everything you figured out with your own research and digging? The history of these cleavers is truly fascinating. I have one I need to restore and use and I'm always on the lookout for more. I wish I could find one in a shop and not just have to buy on ebay, it kind of takes the fun out of it.

Chef Niloc
03-02-2012, 09:46 PM
C
Wow, I knew the Beatty history goes pretty far back and can be confusing at some points with fathers and sons and cousins all manufacturing cleavers under the Beatty name at the same time, but I had no idea it went as far back as the 1600s.

Is there a good source for Beatty info or is that everything you figured out with your own research and digging? The history of these cleavers is truly fascinating. I have one I need to restore and use and I'm always on the lookout for more. I wish I could find one in a shop and not just have to buy on ebay, it kind of takes the fun out of it.
There is a few articles out there that I have read, one was called "passing down the Beattys" I just looked it up from a link I saved and it looks like you have to pay to use the sight now. My wife is into all that genealogy stuff, she's in these club like society things, daughters of the American revolution, mayflower society. Any way she has this cool database thing that I looked up a bunch of things. Wouldn't you know it I'm a Beatty, on my fathers mothers side! It's funny I collected these cleavers all these years and never new it.

On line shopping is the easey way to go but the best stuff is siting on shelves in old peoples shops that don't even own computers.

Doug Seward
03-04-2012, 11:19 AM
I am partial to ceramic bbq pits, however I can see how they would be difficult(if not impossible) to use in a commercial kitchen.

I used to compete KCBS around eastern Pennsylvania a few years ago. We used to haul 3 Kamados like the one below on a Bobcat trailer to competitions. With a BBQ Guru temperature controller and extruded coconut charcoal, we could maintain 235 - 250F for the 18-20 hours needed to finish briskets.

The #9 Kamado below weighs about 750 pounds and was sinking into the macadam driveway until we move it on to concrete pads. The capacity is about 85 pounds (3x briskets and 5x pork butts). My wood preference is a mixture of Pecan and Cherry. -Doug

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6806387206_c88c11e635_z.jpg

Burl Source
03-04-2012, 01:23 PM
I was asked about barrel staves from a local winery the other day.
The person making the request said something about using the oak staves from red wine barrels for smoking meat.
I never heard of anyone doing that but it kind of made sense.

SpikeC
03-04-2012, 04:31 PM
I would LOVE to try that! Of course, bourbon barrels would work too!

hax9215
03-04-2012, 05:49 PM
I have used chips and charcoal made from whiskey and bourbon barrels for years, along with pecan and cherrywood. Can't say I've heard wine barrels discussed, but I am sure someone uses them. This will probably freak some of you out, but the first time I heard of Hawaiian Koa wood a professional team was using it to smoke pork butts. :shocked3: Expensive stuff.

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

Deckhand
03-04-2012, 06:02 PM
Typed in google Leftover Tabasco barrels and saw prepackaged bags of chips from Jack Daniels barrels and Tabasco barrels.
May have to try some. I know other woods are more popular, but my Brinkmann Smoke King Deluxe has only seen mesquite.
The Koa comment ouch!

Kyle
03-05-2012, 03:09 PM
I am partial to ceramic bbq pits, however I can see how they would be difficult(if not impossible) to use in a commercial kitchen.

I used to compete KCBS around eastern Pennsylvania a few years ago. We used to haul 3 Kamados like the one below on a Bobcat trailer to competitions. With a BBQ Guru temperature controller and extruded coconut charcoal, we could maintain 235 - 250F for the 18-20 hours needed to finish briskets.

The #9 Kamado below weighs about 750 pounds and was sinking into the macadam driveway until we move it on to concrete pads. The capacity is about 85 pounds (3x briskets and 5x pork butts). My wood preference is a mixture of Pecan and Cherry. -Doug

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6806387206_c88c11e635_z.jpg

I'm a huge fan of ceramic cookers; my BGE is my pride and joy and I'd love to add another. I just don't know how practical they would be for a restaraunt where the goal is to not become a BBQ joint, but to add smoked meats to the menu. They're also very limited in space, even with the 23" of cooking space on your Komodo Kamado.

Crothcipt
03-05-2012, 06:12 PM
I do know that Jack Danial's sells barrel wood on their website, well the used to anyway.