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Shinob1
03-07-2012, 10:36 PM
What type of knife(s) do you think you want?

Nakiri

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

My wife has given me the green light for spending more on knives! I'm returning the global I purchased and want a vegetable cleaver to replace it.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics-
I don't care too much for the handle. I want something that looks traditional.

Edge Quality/Retention-
I want something that will be easy to sharpen and hold a good edge. Must be a significant upgrade from the global.

Ease of Use-
Comfort-
I don't cook a lot, once a day usually during the weekdays and maybe a few times on the weekend. I do want something that feels good in the hand and prefer a Wa handle.

What grip do you use?
Pinch

What kind of cutting motion do you use?
Push cut, draw, rocking. Still learning, but I like rocking the least.

Where do you store them?
Knife block. Plan on purchasing a strip.

Have you ever oiled a handle?
No, but I oil my board.

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?
Boos

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?
I have a spyderco Sharpmaker. I will be purchasing a 1k stone alongside the new knife. I also plan on adding a strop.

Have they ever been sharpened?
Touched up the Global a tad on the flat side of the fine stones and used a honing rod.

What is your budget?
225-275 shipped.

What do you cook and how often?
I am on a diet and it consist of lean meats, mostly fish, and vegetables. I usually will bake the fish and sauté vegetables. I do this for dinner and lunch meals during the week. On the weekend I try to get more adventurous. I like to slow cook on the weekend, lots of roasts and such. However I'm trying to branch out and learn a variety of things.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?
I'm in the US and would prefer to buy from one of the supported vendors. This (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/nakiri/yoshihiro-165mm-skd-nakiri.html) has caught my eye. I don't want a Gyuto necessarily. I have considered a Santoku, but from what I have read, that type of knife doesn't excel at any particular task. Overall I'm looking for something that will cut veggies well. If that happens to be a Gyuto, I'm willing to listen to reason.

DanB
03-07-2012, 10:46 PM
I think a gyuto cuts pretty much everything well. I don't have a clue as to why anyone needs a nakiri.

The Edge
03-07-2012, 10:48 PM
I love Nakiri's myself, and if you want a wa handle, I'd go with a large Takeda. Though you can't get it from a vendor here that I know of, it is an awesome knife.

Shinob1
03-07-2012, 10:51 PM
I love Nakiri's myself, and if you want a wa handle, I'd go with a large Takeda. Though you can't get it from a vendor here that I know of, it is an awesome knife.

Do you have a link? Thanks!

Andrew H
03-07-2012, 11:07 PM
If you like the Yoshihiro I'd go with it.

Marko Tsourkan
03-07-2012, 11:07 PM
I think a gyuto cuts pretty much everything well. I don't have a clue as to why anyone needs a nakiri.

Can't agree more.

jm2hill
03-07-2012, 11:14 PM
I love my nakiri, more than I love my gyuto. Possibly because its a super thinned out shig but hey its awesome. Whenever I'm in the kitchen with it, its the only knife that has always been commented on.

I also have another 2 and one in the works so I really do love them.

Although I've never met a type of knife I don't enjoy using.

If you looking at the upper end of your budget (and just a bit more) you could look at a custom from Del Ealy he has some in the works right now which will be laser cutters. May not work great on potatoes but everything else they should do an awesome job on. Slicing and dicing.

Otherwise if you want to try one out to see if you like it, as well as give carbon a run, the tojiro shirogami is always good bang for the buck. Spyderco should be able to put a decent edge on that. That'll give you a taste for Nakiri as well as carbon steel and won't set you back much at all!

Otherwise I really like the Takeda kobunka-bocho that I tried (will be my next purchase when they come in stock) and I'm sure one of his Nakiri's would be awesome.

P.s sharpening either of the Del, Takeda, Toj Shiro, will also be easier then the global. Globals are a PITA!

As a home cook myself I never really worry too much about retention because I'm not afraid of it dying on the line, but all 3 steels used will be great and take a good edge.

O1/AEBL - Del, Aogami Super - Takeda, Shirogami - Tojiro

Shinob1
03-07-2012, 11:18 PM
Can't agree more.
If you were to recommend a Gyuto, what would it be? I'm open to suggestion.

jm2hill
03-07-2012, 11:25 PM
You don't have to run away from Nakiri's before trying one :) if vegetables are your thing, they are amazing. Can do meats and stuff well too!

However if you are going to look into gyutos, what/if anything, did you like about the global/knives you've previously used?

Would you prefer stainless or carbon?

Marko Tsourkan
03-07-2012, 11:28 PM
Nakiri is a vegetable knife that is suitable for push cutting only (or that is the proper way to cut with it). The way I see it, it has one cutting area, here we call it a "sweet spot". A gyuto, on the other hand, has 2-3 sweet spots and a tip, so one can use each of these spots for different cutting tasks. In short, a gyuto can do erything nakiri does, and more (i.e. push, pull, down cut, tip work, etc)

If you like gyutos with profiles on a flat side, there are a few to choose from, by Japanese and American makers. Masamoto KS comes to mind - it should fit your budged, should you not mind a carbon knife.

Over the years, I gravitated toward using fewer knives that are multipurpose cutters.

I too owned a couple of nakiris once, so if you really want a nakiri, go for it. Maybe you will find it more useful than I.

M

rsacco
03-07-2012, 11:46 PM
I've been itching to get a Nakiri but Marko makes a good point that has me reconsidering the idea:


...The way I see it, it has one cutting area, here we call it a "sweet spot". A gyuto, on the other hand, has 2-3 sweet spots and a tip, so one can use each of these spots for different cutting tasks.

Shinob1
03-07-2012, 11:49 PM
You don't have to run away from Nakiri's before trying one :) if vegetables are your thing, they are amazing. Can do meats and stuff well too!

However if you are going to look into gyutos, what/if anything, did you like about the global/knives you've previously used?

Would you prefer stainless or carbon?

I liked the Global because it did a good job on vegetables compard to the Santoku I was using. However I don't care for the handle and since I have more money to spend, I want something that is of better quality. My plan is to purchase a Gyuto to replace my chefs knife, but I would like to purchase the Nakiri first since what I'm doing in my prep is breaking down veggies.

I am open to stainless or carbon. I looked up the Takeda and that's on the short list.

My long term plan is to replace all of knives in my block. I thought the Nakiri would be a good choice since it is a vegetable knife.


I've been itching to get a Nakiri but Marko makes a good point that has me reconsidering the idea:

Same here. That's why I've come here though to see what the more experienced members recommend.

jm2hill
03-07-2012, 11:56 PM
My opinion on all knives is that you'll never know till you try one. There are knives, profiles, steels, that I like/dislike only because I've tried them.

Hell I respect Marko's opinion a lot. Always gives sound advice and while everything he's saying is true its the last line thats perfect

"I too owned a couple of nakiris once, so if you really want a nakiri, go for it. Maybe you will find it more useful than I."

I know I eat salads for dinner and lunch everyday of the week (stupid work!) This means that vegetables make up 80 percent of my groceries. I love push cutting vegies for salad. Some Slicing on tomatoes and it works great. Wouldn't want a gyuto to do it! (not that it couldn't!)

Now if you asked me what type of knife I would like to use in a Pro kitchen, it would be a gyuto, great multi-tasker, great all around.

But while I'm simply a home cook I have fun using a yanagi to cut the meat, nakiri to cut the veggies and a gyuto to do potatoes and squash, oh and a bread knife for the bread! :)

add
03-08-2012, 12:54 AM
If you like the Yoshihiro I'd go with it.

Wow, that looks like a good price and includes a saya and perhaps has a horn ferule?

As a home cook and knife enthusiast I enjoy grabbing different types of knives to cut and experiment with.
I have a few gyutos, and a single Nakiri- it sees use.

Knives, knife variety, and cutting are... fun. :D

The Yoshihiro is well below your budget and leaves room for a gyuto as well.
If you find the Nakiri is not your thing you should be able to unload it, if decently priced, fairly easily.

Marko Tsourkan
03-08-2012, 09:24 AM
I hope I didn't come across as arrogant with my comment. This was a personal opinion that I arrived at after years of using knives and trying different types.

I moved away from specialized knives (yanagi is an exception) to more multipurpose knives.

I own several gyuto in different sizes, a suji and a petty. That's my collection and that's all I use. I de-bone poultry with a petty (have Watanabe honesuki too, but don't use it much at all), cut bread with a cheap Japanese gyuto sharpened on 600 grit diamond plate (coarse toothy edge), and sometimes grab a suji instead of yanagi to cut sashimi.

There is a knife for every purpose, you just have to be prepared to own many to cover all your cutting needs. :)

Or you might own a few, if your knives are all-around knives and you use them sometimes in unconventional way. Every gyuto I own is different, so this is like having a bunch of different knives, albeit the same type.

M

Lefty
03-08-2012, 10:20 AM
Nakiris are fun knives, but of course, limited in their use, compared to a gyuto. I agree with jmhill, in that they seem to always be lasers that just perform beautifully on veg-they aren't terrible for slicing meat either!
However, I have a few little notes to make: the Tojiro Shirogami line is not my personal favourite, to say the least. I have one (the nakiri) for a beater laser at work, and I still use the Forschner every time. The Tojiro grind is suspect, the steel is more reactive than other white steels I've used and it feels cheap. It does, however get very sharp, very easily.
AND, this might get me strung up by my shirt strings, but I'm beating the snot out of a Global Chef (thanks Dennis!) and it's FAR surpassing my expectations! I can't get it as sharp as I'd like, but it's a tough, light, intuitive blade. I'll do a full blown review of it soon enough, but I do want to say that in a short time, it has me second guessing the "wisdom" surrounding these knives. Don't sell the Globals short. I know members here hate them, but then again, they're the cool thing to hate. Just saying....

Shinob1
03-08-2012, 10:43 AM
Nakiris are fun knives, but of course, limited in their use, compared to a gyuto. I agree with jmhill, in that they seem to always be lasers that just perform beautifully on veg-they aren't terrible for slicing meat either!
However, I have a few little notes to make: the Tojiro Shirogami line is not my personal favourite, to say the least. I have one (the nakiri) for a beater laser at work, and I still use the Forschner every time. The Tojiro grind is suspect, the steel is more reactive than other white steels I've used and it feels cheap. It does, however get very sharp, very easily.
AND, this might get me strung up by my shirt strings, but I'm beating the snot out of a Global Chef (thanks Dennis!) and it's FAR surpassing my expectations! I can't get it as sharp as I'd like, but it's a tough, light, intuitive blade. I'll do a full blown review of it soon enough, but I do want to say that in a short time, it has me second guessing the "wisdom" surrounding these knives. Don't sell the Globals short. I know members here hate them, but then again, they're the cool thing to hate. Just saying....

Very interested to read your full thoughts and comments on the Global you're testing.


The Yoshihiro is well below your budget and leaves room for a gyuto as well.
If you find the Nakiri is not your thing you should be able to unload it, if decently priced, fairly easily

Those were my thoughts - I could afford that knife and possibly a Gyuto and a stone. Does anyone here have experience with Yoshihiro knifes? My only concern is that I don't want to regret not buying a more expensive knife when I had the chance.

I have an E-mail out to Jon at JKI and want to see what his recommendations are as well. Everything I have read says that he has great customer service. Also big thanks to you guys for chiming in; it's a lot of great information and will help when I make a buying decision. :doublethumbsup:

Chifunda
03-08-2012, 11:11 AM
I have an E-mail out to Jon at JKI and want to see what his recommendations are as well.

I suspect Jon is up to his ass in alligators after being out of the shop for a week but you might consider giving him a call. He's a pleasure to talk to.:thumbsup:

slowtyper
03-08-2012, 02:10 PM
Those were my thoughts - I could afford that knife and possibly a Gyuto and a stone. Does anyone here have experience with Yoshihiro knifes? My only concern is that I don't want to regret not buying a more expensive knife when I had the chance.


I have a couple yoshihiro (single bevelled) knives that are pretty well made, I like them. If I were you I would buy a gyuto and a chinese cleaver, the CCK.

mhlee
03-08-2012, 02:32 PM
I have a couple yoshihiro (single bevelled) knives that are pretty well made, I like them. If I were you I would buy a gyuto and a chinese cleaver, the CCK.

Good call. If you're going to buy a nakiri, go for a chinese cleaver. In my opinion, they're much more cersatile than a nakiri.

echerub
03-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Mmm... gyutos and chinese cleavers are more versatile than nakiris for sure, but I think there's still a place for nakiri *if you like them*.

You'll never really know if you like them or not until you try them, so if this is just another knife along a journey of learning then I'd say go for it. But if you're aiming to get something really nice right now because it'll be a while before the next one... you might be happier going for a gyuto or cleaver simply because there's less risk there that it won't suit you.

Shinob1
03-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Something else that I have stumbled upon are the Takeda Banno Bunka AS 160mm and Takeda Banno Funayuki AS 160mm. Any thoughts on those or do they fall under the umbrella of a Santoku where its a multi-purpose knife that doesn't perform any one task very well?

I'm also starting to reconsider the Nakiri thing - echerub's comment stuck out because this is a purchase that I'll be making and won't have the opportunity for awhile to do for some time. Along side that, I could do as jm2hill suggested and purchase a Toj Shiro on the cheap to see if I like a Nakii and carbon. If I do, I could upgrade to a nice one down the road and keep it in the drawer as a beater.

If I go the Gyuto route, I would prefer something with a flatter profile.

Lefty
03-08-2012, 04:54 PM
I wouldn't go with the Tojiro Shiro nakiri.

hax9215
03-08-2012, 04:58 PM
I was awiting for someone else to broach the topic-get a CCK Cleaver and try it out. Not expensive at all, and a decent starter knife.

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!! :D

jm2hill
03-08-2012, 05:47 PM
I love the cleavers I have, if they're something your interested in taking the time to practice with and learn then you can pick up a cheap CCK and a gyuto.

Otherwise there's no harm in going for either a nakiri or gyuto, all depends what you think you'll enjoy more and if you need a multi-tasker or one thats a vegie chopper that can do meats well too.

I love the look of all of the Takeda kobunka and banno bocho and all of takeda's work - and I'm not even a fan of kurouchi knives.

If you want something a bit different theres also a carter funayuki in his SFGZ line. Carters knives take a great edge and will be scary sharp. (the one I was thinking for you actually got sold today! - but this line of knives is an awesome veggies cutter that will also preform well in other areas!)

I know theres lots of knives being throw around and its going to get confusing! Good luck!

jm2hill
03-08-2012, 05:51 PM
I hope I didn't come across as arrogant with my comment. This was a personal opinion that I arrived at after years of using knives and trying different types.



I hope you don't think I was saying that your opinion was arrogant at all! Your ideas are always valued! I just didn't want someone to be scared away from trying a knife!

I completely agree that gyuto is a multipurpose, nakiri less so. I wanted to just highlight what you said when you said it all really comes down to personal taste and you'll never really know till you try one!

Shinob1
03-10-2012, 09:36 PM
New knife is inbound! Decided to go with a Yoshihiro 210mm Gyuto, King 1k, and a stone holder with base. Can't wait to take it for a spin. :doublethumbsup:

The Edge
03-11-2012, 12:09 AM
Congrats on the purchase!! I'm sure you'll be having a lot of fun. :thumbsup:

skewed
03-11-2012, 01:21 AM
Great call to go with a gyuto. That should be a nice knife for you.

If you still want to try a nakiri the Tojiro shirogami is very inexpensive (and it shows) but does take a great edge and is quite fun to swing.

Johnny.B.Good
03-11-2012, 03:39 AM
Congrats Shinob1.

Let us know how you like it once you have had a chance to play with it a bit.

Lefty
03-11-2012, 11:05 AM
Yeah, I was a bit harsh. I used the Tojiro yesterday, at work and it performed very well for what it costs.