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ptolemy
03-08-2012, 07:42 PM
Heyas:)I was sniffing around random forums and found some JNAT p0rn. Some of these stones just look so nice. Can you tell us more about these and maybe post more pics?:)
This color is awesome
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LRBGZyAmhtM/TRHS7iOJSLI/AAAAAAAAJC4/lF8-CReeOvg/s720/IMGP0915.JPG

this skin is just amazin
g!https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TXaJ_PHTQsg/TRHTNYI3rPI/AAAAAAAAJEg/DVh1t2mW6AQ/s720/IMGP0941.JPG

Would you mind telling us/showing us some of your private/personal collection stones. Maybe some story behind them.Cheers-D

maxim
03-09-2012, 02:24 AM
OK :)
Here are some of my Rare stones:

Ozuku Karasu as in picture above
Super hard stone the hardest i have ! I only use it for western razors razors, it is so hard , i ones tryde to make microbevel on Yanagi with it and it chipped the edge very badly, like 2-3 mm chips :scared4:

5149

Nartuaki Karasu Momiji Suita
Hehe very long name but true, that stone have almost all appearances in it, in the middle layer of the stone there are 20mm very dark layer of Karasu so with time it will be very hard stone, but now it is very good stone for knives. Also line is not toxic or can not be field.

5150
5151

Of coars my Aizu:
These stones are instinct, can not find them anymore :( Very hard Aoto like stones, super fast also on some very hard steels.

5152

Ozuku set, Very old Ozukus one medium one is hard, they come from behind Ozuku from Another opening then reguler used in Ozuku stones

5153

Old Takashima Kiita, you cant get them anymore in that sizes or that uniform it is 300 mm x 90mm stone
It is quite hard for Takashima and have very nice black Nashiji, no lines or any inclusions at all and layer very very uniform

5154

My Hakka that i recived like that

5155

Then i glued it up and still use it, works very good !! :D

5156

Ozuku Karasu
Got is as gift in Japan, very hard and fine stone

5157

Tenjyou Ozuku Sunashi
Very shallow layer stone but still super hard and fine, very unique and rare. I had to press 2 month to they will sell it to me haha ..
My stone dealer have only seen 2 of those ever

5158

Nakayama Maruka Kiita Kan
In Old Maruka box have very nice Kan on sides very nice stone for knives

5159

More will come later :)

Johnny.B.Good
03-09-2012, 02:37 AM
Good idea Ptolemy.

Thanks for sharing Maxim, very interesting.

ptolemy
03-09-2012, 06:13 AM
Aizu actually interested me, especially after reading the story of it's prudction but, like you siad, it's extinct and likely can't be found.

The color on that Okuky Karasu is just awesome

maxim
03-10-2012, 02:38 AM
Smal Nakayama Maruka Asagi i use it as Nagura for razors :)
Super expensive slurry stone haha

5189

Very hard Unknown Asagi with Goma, my razor hone, probably Nakayama

5190

Nakayama Kiita, my tool stone use it for chisels and small woodworking knives

5191

Will continue, have to dig up all old pictures

maxim
03-10-2012, 03:16 PM
Pure white Asano Tenjyou Nagura very nice stone for prepolishing for knives or for razors.

5195

Nakayama Maruka very smooth stone final finisher for my Yanagis

5196

jm2hill
03-10-2012, 07:20 PM
Maxim could you possibly provide a link that describes what all the word mean and the grades and such?

I know I've seen something on your website before just can't seem to locate it!

ptolemy
03-10-2012, 11:59 PM
Maxim could you possibly provide a link that describes what all the word mean and the grades and such?

I know I've seen something on your website before just can't seem to locate it!

you looking for this? http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1821

Deckhand
03-11-2012, 01:14 AM
I have come back to look at these a few times. Thank you for posting this. Very nice!

maxim
03-11-2012, 03:49 AM
Ohira Range Suita, my working stone, very fast quite hard, i use it on most of my knives i can go from 1 k to that stone without a problem :)

5197

Big Atagoyama, use it on kasumi knives to get that Shigefusa finish super smooth stone and very easy to use

5198

ptolemy
03-11-2012, 05:33 AM
Ohira Range Suita - wow what a color. I assume all of those lines are non-toxis? gorgeous.

maxim
03-11-2012, 06:07 AM
Yes all is not toxic :) I sold all the cleanest Ohira suitas and kipped one with most lines hehe... i dont care much about them as long they dont scratch my finish or chip the blade :D

maxim
03-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Wakasa kiita with unusual orange line, i thought it looked so cool so i keept it for my Razors :D
Super nice stone for Kamisoris and softer steel razors.

5210

My own super smooth Blue Aoto, very old stone, the paper it was wrapped in when i got it was from 1970 :)
Aotos like that is imposible to find now and cost a fortune

5211

5212

maxim
03-17-2012, 04:28 PM
Just got 2 new to my collection

Deal was that i send my supplier my Rare western Naturals and he send me his :) So i did not know what i get to make it bit fun :D
So i Shipped him my Eschers, Coticules and some French Nat stone.

And here is what i got for first batch i get 3 more stones next week

First one blows Aizu in all !!!! Rarity and performance
When i looked at it i thought Aoto and i got straight answer that is not Aoto :spankarse: !!!!
It is Saeki, and not just reguler Saeki it is black Saeki witch is very Rare, you can stil get brown Saekis if you are lucky, but they are much much softer and very slow !!

It hase some sparkels all over the stone, very difficult to see on the picture. But very beautiful in person.
All Lines and small inclusions is not toxic at all and even can not be field.
It took me about 1 hr to lap it with 140grit Atoma :eek2: Then i just gave up and there are stil some deep lines in the stone, they will go away with time
Fines of that stone is approx same as Very fine Aoto but speed man..... !!!! I took my Honyaki witch is super hard to sharpen and it took no time to raze a burr and finish was super uniform !
Wow this is my new favored medium stone ! it cuts like 1k maybe lower but finishes like 4k with mud maybe 6k. :bliss:

Here is some pictures there will come some videos later :D

5398

5399

Second is 3 kg Shinden suita Raw stone. Also Very Rare huge stone !
At first i thought i will cut it up for Naguras, because of all those lines and very weird shape.
But after i have tried it with my tools , kanna, chisels and kuri, i decided to kip it. Lines was not toxic at all and shape was super nice for tools !
Very very fast stone and leves amezing finish lv 4,5 for sure maybe even more but super fast.
i undestand why all woodworkers in japan go for those yellow suitas like Shinden or Okudo, you will need only 1 stone for your work space :)
And you can just leve it as display stone, because it looks so cool :D

5400

5401

5402

5403

schanop
03-17-2012, 04:33 PM
Beggin you to show us a video of your newest two stones in action :shocked3: They sound ultra cool.

Johnny.B.Good
03-17-2012, 04:48 PM
Sweet Maxim!

Eamon Burke
03-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Super hard, Cuts like a 1k and leaves a 6k finish?? That's a Grail Stone if I've ever heard one!

BobCat
03-18-2012, 02:23 PM
Super hard, Cuts like a 1k and leaves a 6k finish?? That's a Grail Stone if I've ever heard one!

Agree, when can we get one? :EDance2:

I have not heard about black Saeki before. What are the sparkles?

Tanba (Kyoto) Aoto: Softer and rougher < Saeki (brown??)< Aono, Inokura < Kouzaki

maxim
03-18-2012, 02:58 PM
Unfortunately this stones is imposible to find now :( my supplier had only this one and it was in his privet collection.
I told him to look for some to sell, but he just say its super difficult ! If he find any he will let me know, it have to be from some carpenters that are willing to sell they used ones. :lol2:
I can only get some brown ones but they are really not worth of having ! More like Amakusa stones
BTW Saeki is Kyoto stone

maxim
03-20-2012, 04:36 AM
got the last batch from trading :) Super rare stones !
All for my collection :D

Ozuku Tenjyou Range Suita
5469

5470

Nakayama Suita

5471

5472

Maruka Kiita

5473

5474

2 Asano Nagura Koma, pure white and marble

5475

gentlecook
03-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Maruka Kiita very nice looking

little and so strong )

maxim
03-21-2012, 02:22 PM
Got 2 new Buetful and special stones that deserve to be here :)

First is Atagoyama very light color, the smoothest one i ever try very very big stone.
That one is sold already to very lucky buyer !!!
Size is: 220mm 82mm 74mm 3200g

5519

5520

Second is very powerful Nakayama Kiita (http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Nakayama-Koppa-Kiita-Lv-4-5-p/575.htm), color is very deep.
Very cool stone. Odd shape but can be used on razors or small knives anyway. Or just for display :D
That one is for sale in store !

5521

BobCat
03-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Maxim what did type of glue did you use to fix the broken stone?

maxim
03-24-2012, 12:00 PM
Just super glue between stones and epoxy to wooden base

maxim
04-03-2012, 07:00 AM
My new Yellow Ohira Range Suita, super fast stone !! Actually faster then white ones i have tried.

5804

5805

5806

gentlecook
04-03-2012, 11:22 AM
nice , congratz )

this one +1 for your collection ?

Halicon
04-07-2012, 06:38 AM
Maxim, I understand these are your collection stones and it's anything but hard to tell that they are very good stones albeit that Ohiira Renge Suita had a wee bit too much Renge for what I would comfortably hone woodworking tools on, ought to be great for knives though. :)

I've managed to weasel myself into a handful of gorgeous collection stones in the past and I suppose I'm here attempting just that again. hihi ;)

Ohiira Renge Suita "kiita", is it a knife or tool finisher, or can it handle both if you're an experienced user?
Your own crazy Aoto (talk about sword quality, impossible to find today outside of private collections)
Saeki, is this a stone that is similar to a coarser Kouzaki? They both look quite similar so it wouldn't surprise me if the mining location isn't far away from each other. Kouzaki is more like a true mid-polisher however, but just how do the particles on this stone feel? The "clear" feedback of an Aoto, the wet, refining feeling of Tsushima or even something completely different? My needs are stones for sword polishing and woodworking tools (I make my own shirasaya and it flows well with my addiction to J nats) so I would love an in-depth description on this Saeki as it's a stone I've never experienced before.
Nakayama Maruka Kiita Kan, looks like a ridiculously good daily stone for woodworking. Would you consider parting with it for the right price?

These are all very interesting stones. You have a few one more that also are extremely interesting but not quite in my needs as I for example have a great specimen of Okudo Renge Suita and thus doesn't really need an Ozuku Tenjyou Suita, but as a collector I really want it, Haha.

Halicon
04-10-2012, 09:41 AM
I'll let my inquiry stand in case you want to sell one or a few of the mentioned stones. The Aoto would be for swords though so that's the one I'm the most interested in but it's hard to speculate without a response on your end, Maxim.

I have to ask one thing however, why are you recommending Nagura? There's a few examples of stones working best when rubbed against an identical stone but Asano Nagura??? Even us sword polishers have pretty much entirely switched over to diamond plates, Atoma seems to be the best bang for the buck. The polishers that doesn't use plates tend to use an identical stone to produce the slurry; chu-nagura for chu-nagura, koma-nagura for koma-nagura and so on.

Are you trying to stay traditional? I'm struggling to understand why you aren't recommending a good diamond plate, especially since you deal with hard Jnats which is where the plates are the most useful.

maxim
04-10-2012, 10:04 AM
I will not sell any of my privet stones, because i use them my self :)
Any stone sale go true email or PM and not in open forum.
I recommend Nagura because i think it is best, andy sword polishers i know in Japan do not use Diamond plate and almost all that i know in Japan that understands a bit in Japanese Naturals will never recommend Diamond plate to create slurry.
And Nagura cost like 14 euro VS Diamond plate 100 euro. You can have many different results with naguras wile with Diamond plate just one.

mainaman
04-10-2012, 11:09 AM
I'm struggling to understand why you aren't recommending a good diamond plate, especially since you deal with hard Jnats which is where the plates are the most useful.
Actually with hard J-nts diamond plates are not the best choice, the best slurry is nagura then tomonagura. Diamond plates scratch the stone and then the finish is not as uniform, not to mention stray diamonds on the surface will scratch the bevels.
I know some sellers recommend atomas for slurry and claim Iwasaki uses them but several people went to visit Iwasaki and found out he does not use atoma or any other diamond plate for that matter.

Halicon
04-10-2012, 12:52 PM
Actually with hard J-nts diamond plates are not the best choice, the best slurry is nagura then tomonagura. Diamond plates scratch the stone and then the finish is not as uniform, not to mention stray diamonds on the surface will scratch the bevels.
I know some sellers recommend atomas for slurry and claim Iwasaki uses them but several people went to visit Iwasaki and found out he does not use atoma or any other diamond plate for that matter.

Iwasaki-san does indeed use Atoma and even a synthetic 30k shapton to finish his Kamisori. My friend visited Kousuke Iwasaki-san some 3-4 years ago and I'm quite sure he mentioned seeing several Atoma as well as the synthetics. If you really insist on the matter I'll ask him.

Diamond plates that scratch the stones are either cheaply made, inaccurate or of too coarse grit. Many that use plates don't know this and puts a wrong face on the stone, hampering the performance greatly. I have 4 different plates for example to cover everything from grinding to polishing so that I can match the face I put with the plate exactly to the stone.

If it's DMT you've tested, they're too inaccurate. If you haven't used DMT (or Atoma) and the plate was priced at below $200 then you run into that same problem of cupping the stone and creating scratches. Speaking of stray "diamonds" scratching the bevel by the way (again only from cheap or bad diamond plates), anything except tomo-nagura and good plates really scratches the soft jigane and makes it very difficult to precision hone tools that has to be flat.

You loose much of the control and accuracy adding in a rougher stone and especially so if it's a Suita you're using. There are particular types of Jnats though that can produce "steel scratchers" that a tomo-nagura or even a full-size identical stone is great at removing but that's very few stones we're talking about.

People have to keep in mind that Iwasaki-san's "Hamono no Mikata" was written long before good diamond plates reached the market. Much has changed since then but I do understand if one wishes to stay traditional and not rely on the technology of the plates.

mainaman, I wish you to understand that it's especially with hard Jnats that diamond plates truly shines and become incredible tools. The finish and speed that I can work with at after rubbing a 1200x Atoma (never use coarse plates on polishing stones) a few seconds is without a doubt superior. The change is literally so big that the stone itself feels different, which is what happens when you use the stone's own particles instead of another, coarser and completely different stone to get a slurry.

Here in the west we really don't have many options regarding diamond plates, in Jp it's not very hard to find a $300-500 plate. Compared to them the accuracy on ours is really terrible as well, or I am yet to have found a company that produces an accurate plate with a good glide.

Regards
Hal

Oh and by the way, I can share pics of some Jnats as well if it's of interest. :)

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg15/scaled.php?server=15&filename=dscf2771gb.jpg&res=landing Aiiwadanii, incredibly clean specimen.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg600/scaled.php?server=600&filename=dscf3165s.jpg&res=landing Uchigumori Jibiki. Rare, rare sword polishing stone.

maxim
04-10-2012, 01:11 PM
Hmm my source just visited Iwasaki yesterday and he say he do not use Atoma to create slurry on Jnats.

BTW the picture you just posted is from very unreliable seller in Japan that sells things on Japanese Yahoo Auction, he been thrown away from Natural stone association just couple years ago for selling fake stones.

So now i know where you have all that wrong info from

mainaman
04-10-2012, 01:30 PM
Iwasaki-san does indeed use Atoma and even a synthetic 30k shapton to finish his Kamisori. My friend visited Kousuke Iwasaki-san some 3-4 years ago and I'm quite sure he mentioned seeing several Atoma as well as the synthetics. If you really insist on the matter I'll ask him. 2 people visited in the last year he specifically told them he does not use (actually it is not him he does not sharpen anymore , it is his apprentice Mizouchi San) diamond plates.


Diamond plates that scratch the stones are either cheaply made, inaccurate or of too coarse grit. Many that use plates don't know this and puts a wrong face on the stone, hampering the performance greatly. I have 4 different plates for example to cover everything from grinding to polishing so that I can match the face I put with the plate exactly to the stone. I guess then my 1.2k Atoma is cheaply made, it scratches the stones every time I use it and it swell broken in, I have had it for 2 years now.


mainaman, I wish you to understand that it's especially with hard Jnats that diamond plates truly shines and become incredible tools. The finish and speed that I can work with at after rubbing a 1200x Atoma (never use coarse plates on polishing stones) a few seconds is without a doubt superior. The change is literally so big that the stone itself feels different, which is what happens when you use the stone's own particles instead of another, coarser and completely different stone to get a slurry. I understand the hard Jnats very well, I use the hardest there is for razors, a lot of them, and diamond plates do not go well with such stones.



Oh and by the way, I can share pics of some Jnats as well if it's of interest. :)
are those from the so called So "father" ?

.

Halicon
04-10-2012, 01:34 PM
That's odd because this man isn't in the Kyoto stone association. I arrived to that man to complete my Uchigumori collection so I'm not his student.
You say "your source" and in short order jump on "my source". Would you consider it acceptable if I ask who your source is since you know mine, he mines in Takashima right?

Halicon
04-10-2012, 01:39 PM
I guess then my 1.2k Atoma is cheaply made, it scratches the stones every time I use it and it swell broken in, I have had it for 2 years now.

How do you use it and with what stones do you have?

I understand the hard Jnats very well, I use the hardest there is for razors, a lot of them, and diamond plates do not go well with such stones.

I've had no problems working my Atoma 1200x on the hardest of Asagi, zero scratches.

are those from the so called So "father" ?

I would rather not talk about another stone retailer in the forum for JNS itself, but yes, some are from that source.

maxim
04-10-2012, 01:43 PM
No one mines in Takashima. It is closed long time ago !

Halicon
04-10-2012, 01:48 PM
No one mines in Takashima. It is closed long time ago !

I showed you mine, where's yours?

maxim
04-10-2012, 01:48 PM
That seller ones sold stones on KEZUROUKAI in Japan big association for Natural stones and tools, after he sold some fake stones he was thrown out and can never sell anything there again.
Now he sells stones on Yahoo Auction with wrong labeling under name Murashita

maxim
04-10-2012, 01:50 PM
I showed you mine, where's yours?

What do i have to show ??

Halicon
04-10-2012, 01:55 PM
Could you please show me an auction? It's quite hard to find any publications about being thrown out from Kezuroukai for selling fakes. The ones I've received aren't painted though and appear to the best of my skill to be genuine.

So you're not getting stones from 330mate?

maxim
04-10-2012, 01:59 PM
Haha i never recommend 330mate :D He is quite equal to Murashita seller

Halicon
04-10-2012, 02:04 PM
Yes, I'm quite aware of what 330mate is doing.

Could you please show me an auction from this Murashita though?

Andrew H
04-10-2012, 02:53 PM
Halicon, this thread was made by someone asking maxim to show off his private collection of stones. Let's try and keep the discussion civil and stay on topic.

Halicon
04-10-2012, 03:07 PM
Gotcha Andrew. My intention when posting those pics wasn't quite how it played out as they sadly came from another retailer that could be identified.

Apologies, it was an improper action and I didn't think it through where I was posting mentioned pics.

maxim
04-11-2012, 03:32 AM
Murashita Auction:
http://openuser.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/user/murasita1210

Maybe you will recognize some of the pencil drowned Kanjis he is only one in Japan that have them on Jnats

Halicon
04-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Indeed, I have those Kanji on a budget Ohiira I got for 4000 yen. Nothing else though.

Do you believe that any stone that isn't inked is a fake or can't perform, or that every inked stone is genuine? Have you never been with someone as they buy in bulk, in person at the mine itself?

I can't really do much more here as you have put me in a very awkward position by assuming that I was trained by a different stone retailer. Thanks for the discussion Maxim, it was sad it had to end like this and I apologize for any problems I caused.