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The BoardSMITH
03-09-2012, 07:54 AM
I have a possible order upcoming for a restaurant for 45 table tops. Knowing I can't do that solo I decided to contact the local Employment Secrity Commission office to post a part-time job opening. I was very specific with the requirements since the last thing I need is to run a woodworking school instead of a woodworking shop and since the ESC will screen the applicants, I wouldn't have to wade through a lot of non-qualified applicants.

The first application looked good so I gave him a call to set an interview time. I called at 10:30 am and actually woke him up. I don't know if he was working all night or what else might have been going on. I gave him the address and said to come on down and he never showed.

The second application wasn't what I was looking for so I never called.

I did hire a young man from my church but that hasn't lasted. On the first day he asked me to pay him for the day and I replied with a no, I wasn't going to start that. But after he left he came back in saying he didn't have enough gas to get home, I caved. Not a good way to start off. That was on Wednesday and on Friday he acted surprised when I said he would be paid the next Friday so I had time to figure everything out.

He called me this week asking if I could pay him early, stating he had some things he had to take care of. After his screw-ups with packing the boards for shipping, forgetting to include Board Butter in at least two boxes and shorting one box, which cost me additional postage and time plus he loaded a board in a box upside down which just happened to be the one UPS dropped gouging the cutting surface, and asking again to be paid early after I told him not to ask, I cut him loose when he came for his money.

The fellow who worked for me part-time during the move last year was drawing unemployment benefits and not reporting what I was paying him. Since I sent a 1099 form for what I paid, he has evidently decided I threw him under the bus and will not speak or acknowledge my presence. BTW He lives across the street. At least his children wave.

There is supposed to be a job shortage and a worker surplus in this country yet it is tough to find someone who is really willing to work. What is wrong?

Salty dog
03-09-2012, 08:01 AM
It is amazing. Even trying to find a good Server is difficult. Good cooks are even harder.

Keith Neal
03-09-2012, 08:27 AM
Trying to find good tax preparers was always a pain. One I hired was a retired CPA who had been chief of the audit division of a big city IRS office. He first complained about not making enough money. I paid a percentage of fees on tax returns prepared, and he took several hours to complete a simple 1040, so no, he didn't make much. And he treated my clients like they were in an IRS audit. Bye.

WildBoar
03-09-2012, 09:28 AM
Sorry to hear of your trobles, David. It's admirible going to the employment commission, but there are many who just go through the motions so they can collect unemployment and are not all that crazy about actually working. It might be helpful to post some fliers at the grocery store if they have a bulletin board. Also could talk to any of your material suppliers to see if they have leads on people looking for work.

Congrats on the big order -- I hope you are able to get it all done on time and make some $ on it.

Chifunda
03-09-2012, 09:50 AM
Would it be too much trouble for you to move your shop 250 miles to the south? I'd be happy to help you out, but it would be a hell of a commute.:)

Your best bet might be to find an old geezer like me who loves woodworking, doesn't need to make a lot of money and understands that a day's pay commands an honest day's work.

Hang in there...sometimes you've got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince.

DeepCSweede
03-09-2012, 10:37 AM
David,

Talk to a couple of local finish carpentry type of company's and see if they have laid off people who they would consider hiring back. they probably won't recommend their top couple but may give you some quality leads. With the construction downturn, there has to be some quality people out there.

One of my former good friends was a CNC machinist that got laid off and was collecting unemployment and decided that he was making more money on unemployment and being a bum than trying to find a decent job. He milked it until he lost his unemployment the first time, skipped out on his rental and moved in with his sister (I was his landlord), and then after unemployment was reinstated he milked it for another 42 weeks (this is why he is former, I don't respect him enough to be around him any more). I am sure there are lots of people out there like this, but I am sure there has to be some quality people too. Good luck.

kalaeb
03-09-2012, 10:55 AM
I open restaurants all across the country and believe me when I say you are not alone in the problems you are having. Finding quality employees has never been harder.

jm2hill
03-09-2012, 11:03 AM
Good luck Dave!
It would suck to not be able to fill that order!

bprescot
03-09-2012, 12:04 PM
This blows my mind... I remember talking to a former colleague that got laid off but quickly found another job. His thoughts, though I discredited them at the time, was that, after getting a good number of interviews and offers from nearly all of the places he interviewed, we didn't really have an employment problem right now, we really had an employee problem. Apparently hiring manager after hiring manager told him that he was the first truly qualified candidate they'd had in months... Your experience, Dave, seems to lend some additional support to that view.

Pabloz
03-09-2012, 12:13 PM
But isn't there a recession going on with all time HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT?????

Mint427
03-09-2012, 12:24 PM
Hi Dave. I have a small business and have success in hiring part-time help using Craig's List. I only consider those who post CV's which in your case would include woodworking background. Hope that helps and good luck!

ajhuff
03-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Doesn't sound like anything has changed in at least 20 years to me. I always tell people you can get a good feel for the available labor pool by going to McDonald's. If the service sucks, you can bet that your job applicants will too because that's what you've got to work with.

-AJ

Pabloz
03-09-2012, 01:15 PM
What about a local community college/ trade school w/a wood working/carpentry program. My students are always in demand and I get great feedback from my advisory committee.

Eamon Burke
03-09-2012, 02:33 PM
Heck, I work at a catering company and a college...we can't even find a good dishwasher!

Its because of high un employment...good workers are the only ones with jobs, and they are being saddled with doing everything, while all the suckfish are trying their hand at something new.

Plus everyone assumes that, worst case scenario, someone else will take care of them.

ajhuff
03-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Its because of high un employment...good workers are the only ones with jobs, and they are being saddled with doing everything, while all the suckfish are trying their hand at something new.


This may be the most brilliant observation I have read in years. I think you are spot on.

-AJ

Burl Source
03-09-2012, 02:40 PM
I would suggest contacting local cabinet shops.
They are bound to know of someone.

Another idea is high school wood shop. When I was in high school both my brother and I were hired by a local cabinet shop for part time work.
The teacher should be able to tell you who to hire and who to stay away from.

Chifunda
03-09-2012, 03:27 PM
Plus everyone assumes that, worst case scenario, someone else will take care of them.:word:

JBroida
03-09-2012, 04:07 PM
its funny, but i know quite a few people who keep saying to me that they wont take a job that pays less than their unemployment so they arent looking for jobs... weirds me out

ThEoRy
03-09-2012, 06:14 PM
It is amazing. Even trying to find a good Server is difficult. Good cooks are even harder.


Tell me about it. I'm looking for a grill cook now and after wading through all the jokers I finally find an applicant I feel is worth an interview and he no shows on me today! Go figure. You need work. I may offer you a position. WHA HAPPEN YOU GUY!!

Deckhand
03-09-2012, 08:18 PM
I feel your pain. Usually doing the work can be taught to someone eager. I hope you find someone with character and a good work ethic.

memorael
03-09-2012, 08:38 PM
try the illegal Mexicans, hard workers I tell you.

The BoardSMITH
03-09-2012, 09:19 PM
Craigs List - Hadn't thought of that but will look.

The local high schools, community colleges and colleges have all done away with their shop classes. I called all within a 30 mile radius and got no where last year.

The last guy said he had done finish work but couldn't read a tape measure.

I will try some of the local cabinet shops to see if they know of a good worker who needs work.

Maybe I will continue to work it solo until I get to big to do so. At least I know the boss and can argue with him if needed.

Thanks all!

JBroida
03-09-2012, 10:22 PM
try the illegal Mexicans, hard workers I tell you.

haha... so true

ThEoRy
03-09-2012, 10:44 PM
try the illegal Mexicans, hard workers I tell you.

No. That's exactly why skilled workers in America are forced to take lesser wages than they are worth. Miguel the illegal has 9 roommates and can afford to work for $8.00 an hour. John Smith, a skilled worker, is married with children, needs work and is only offered $10.00-$10.50 because of illegal labor wage competition.

Don't tell me I'm making things up either. I've seen it a hundred times before and even was John Smith a few times.

memorael
03-10-2012, 12:13 AM
No. That's exactly why skilled workers in America are forced to take lesser wages than they are worth. Miguel the illegal has 9 roommates and can afford to work for $8.00 an hour. John Smith, a skilled worker, is married with children, needs work and is only offered $10.00-$10.50 because of illegal labor wage competition.

Don't tell me I'm making things up either. I've seen it a hundred times before and even was John Smith a few times.

Do you know any Illegal's? cause the ones that I used to work with must have been millionaires or something because they all had their own apartment and the owners of the place highly regarded them because and I quote "million's of people have worked in these kitchens, of those millions 5 of them still work here because they work the hardest" guess what they were.

Bishopmaker
03-10-2012, 01:24 AM
Either you can't find good workers or large companies would rather pay less and get so/so workers.

Eamon Burke
03-10-2012, 02:25 PM
No. That's exactly why skilled workers in America are forced to take lesser wages than they are worth. Miguel the illegal has 9 roommates and can afford to work for $8.00 an hour. John Smith, a skilled worker, is married with children, needs work and is only offered $10.00-$10.50 because of illegal labor wage competition.

Don't tell me I'm making things up either. I've seen it a hundred times before and even was John Smith a few times.

Yeah, it's not really a concrete comparison. We take home different amounts, and can buy different things with that money.

I worked a sushi bar, and got paid a flat salary, working 65 hours a week, my wife and daughter were at home(then only one daughter). I could barely cover my bills, and our one luxury was a Netflix account. We never ate out, we didn't go on a single date, I didn't even purchase a pair of shoes. I got 2 knives and a stone with my income tax return that year.

Meanwhile, the guy in the back that crept across the border got paid under the table, and was being paid out 60% of what I was. But in order to keep him there, the boss used their old, paid off house to shelter their under the table workers, and drove them to work in a van in the morning. So he had no rent, no car insurance/repairs/payments, no gas, no food, no electric bill, and no taxes. He sent some of his money back to family in Mexico, where a liver operation to save his father's life cost him what he spent on beer in a month--$700usd.

He tried to tell me one day that I made more money because I was a sushi chef. I then compared paychecks, asked about his bills and how much the exchange rate to mexico was, and what that could buy back home. The end result? He worked one less day a week than I did, and got 212% more than I got paid. It's not my boss' fault, or his. Nobody's scheming this thing out, it's just the end result of a backward system.


And as far as illegal immigrants working hard--you bet! If you walked 1200 miles through Mexico/Central America, got raped, robbed, and beaten a few times, thrown off the roof of a train, left to die of thirst in the desert by a coyote, snuck past a few dozen varieties of armed law enforcement, faced drug cartels and murdering thugs, and lived a double life in a foreign land to feed your family in Guatemala--yeah, you're probably a go-getter.

There is an implication, however, that it is morally acceptable to pay someone however little they are willing to take to do a job. If an out of work roofer comes to you and says "My family has just enough money to buy food, and used clothing to send our children to school, but we can't make rent this month. I will re-roof your house, I can tell it needs it. You pay materials, and I will do the job for $400 because it will take 2 weeks and that is what I need to cover rent at the end of the month." He may be willing to do anything for his family, and might be grateful and happy to do it. But that doesn't make it right.


It may seem a bit :offtopic: and I hope nobody's offended by it. But it is the heart of the issue--you know, in Georgia, they shooed illegal immigrants off the farms, and now nobody is doing the work. They either can't hack the work, or they aren't willing to do it. Don't try to tell me that there is something most Americans wouldn't do for the right price--and farm work isn't even morally objectionable! They just said "I could go out and break my back again for another $50 for the day. All I want to do is sleep, the work is exhausting. I got paid for 2 weeks, now I have $600, I'd lose $50 of it to not go to work today". So they don't go--it isn't worth it. Get them paid so that they go out and buy a home, and a car, and start a family...they aren't about to let that go for the luxury of a day's rest.

add
03-10-2012, 04:26 PM
Eamon, what a wonderful, even-handed thought out post, imho.

Amazing how this situation effects so many directly or indirectly...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Dave, I would think the right person is out there.
Perhaps as your business continues to grow, even someone you could mentor and take on as an apprentice.

Best of luck!

Keith Neal
03-10-2012, 04:57 PM
"And as far as illegal immigrants working hard--you bet! If you walked 1200 miles through Mexico/Central America, got raped, robbed, and beaten a few times, thrown off the roof of a train, left to die of thirst in the desert by a coyote, snuck past a few dozen varieties of armed law enforcement, faced drug cartels and murdering thugs, and lived a double life in a foreign land to feed your family in Guatemala--yeah, you're probably a go-getter. "

Eamon, you are right about that, especially the Guatemalans. I lived in the Stuart, FL region for a long time, and knew and saw many of them. They were the hardest working people I have ever seen. Many who had managed to get a green card came to me for tax returns, and always seemed to be honest. One man came in barefooted wearing shorts and a t-shirt. He had a business and needed a Schedule C, so had to have help. He had bought three used up school buses for $1500 each, fixed them up well enough to run, and delivered workers to the orange groves every day. He was paid by the grove people a set amount -- I think it was $2 -- a head a day for workers delivered. He declared over $100,000 and paid his taxes. And I actually believe he declared all his income.

Those are some good folks.

Johnny.B.Good
03-10-2012, 05:31 PM
Nice post Eamon.

It is a complicated issue, and like most complicated issues, there are no easy answers.

ThEoRy
03-10-2012, 11:44 PM
I know it's not a black and white issue. There are a lot of grey areas and everyone's situation is different. I'm not one to paint an entire people with one broad stroke either so don't get me wrong. I've never had a problem with anyone's race. It's not about that. I've seen this issue first hand many times however.

Being offered 5 dollars less an hour than I used to make on a job interview for the same company I previously worked for at the original higher rate because, "Well Gerrardo has been here for 6 years and only makes $9.50 so we can't really bring you in any higher than $10." I asked, "Is this a joke or something? Did Darryl put you up to this?" "No, we called Darryl though and he did say you were the man over there. That's why we'd like to bring you in but I just can't offer you more than $10." I replied, "I made $15 over there and you know I'm worth it." He say's, " "Well if the other cooks ever found out, they're all related so they'd probably all quit at once." I'm thinking, how stupid is this guy, he's setting himself up for failure and he knows it! Now mind you, I have never told any co worker or subordinate how much I make and never will. The only people who know is the guy who hires me and the one who signs the check or processes it. When I explained this to him, I could tell that he just wouldn't budge. Not even a freaking dollar. I was hurting for work too and was willing to take far less than my worth just to have something. But no. Not even a dollar more.

I thanked him for the "offer" but respectfully declined. I then discussed his "they all quit at once" situation and he admitted that it wasn't a good idea to have all his eggs in one basket but, "They all work for nothing" was basically the gist. "Well, call me if they ever do or you need a manager", I said.

About 6 months later, day after Valentine's, their busiest night of the year, guess who calls me up out of the blue? "Halfway through they got in the weeds, just got pissed and left!" I already found something much better by then so I just laughed. "I told you man, shoulda just hired me back then. I already have something good now so good luck cleaning up that mess"

Things worked out for me in the end anyway but it was so defeating being rejected time and again because I'm "too skilled" and "overqualified" for the job.

I'll hire anyone if they are willing to work. I don't care what race, religion or nationality you are. In fact my kitchen is full of Ecuadorians, Dominicans, Jamaicans, Eastern Europeans and Mexicans or whatever else we have. But you have to have legal working papers. No papers, no job. Sorry but that's just the way it is. What's right is right. As an American we all have to do our part and support American and legalized workers.

Eamon Burke
03-11-2012, 02:32 AM
:goodpost:

I've lived this many times. Hell, I have been on both sides of that conversation three times in the past 2 months.

memorael
03-11-2012, 02:57 AM
I know it's not a black and white issue. There are a lot of grey areas and everyone's situation is different. I'm not one to paint an entire people with one broad stroke either so don't get me wrong. I've never had a problem with anyone's race. It's not about that. I've seen this issue first hand many times however.

Being offered 5 dollars less an hour than I used to make on a job interview for the same company I previously worked for at the original higher rate because, "Well Gerrardo has been here for 6 years and only makes $9.50 so we can't really bring you in any higher than $10." I asked, "Is this a joke or something? Did Darryl put you up to this?" "No, we called Darryl though and he did say you were the man over there. That's why we'd like to bring you in but I just can't offer you more than $10." I replied, "I made $15 over there and you know I'm worth it." He say's, " "Well if the other cooks ever found out, they're all related so they'd probably all quit at once." I'm thinking, how stupid is this guy, he's setting himself up for failure and he knows it! Now mind you, I have never told any co worker or subordinate how much I make and never will. The only people who know is the guy who hires me and the one who signs the check or processes it. When I explained this to him, I could tell that he just wouldn't budge. Not even a freaking dollar. I was hurting for work too and was willing to take far less than my worth just to have something. But no. Not even a dollar more.

I thanked him for the "offer" but respectfully declined. I then discussed his "they all quit at once" situation and he admitted that it wasn't a good idea to have all his eggs in one basket but, "They all work for nothing" was basically the gist. "Well, call me if they ever do or you need a manager", I said.

About 6 months later, day after Valentine's, their busiest night of the year, guess who calls me up out of the blue? "Halfway through they got in the weeds, just got pissed and left!" I already found something much better by then so I just laughed. "I told you man, shoulda just hired me back then. I already have something good now so good luck cleaning up that mess"

Things worked out for me in the end anyway but it was so defeating being rejected time and again because I'm "too skilled" and "overqualified" for the job.

I'll hire anyone if they are willing to work. I don't care what race, religion or nationality you are. In fact my kitchen is full of Ecuadorians, Dominicans, Jamaicans, Eastern Europeans and Mexicans or whatever else we have. But you have to have legal working papers. No papers, no job. Sorry but that's just the way it is. What's right is right. As an American we all have to do our part and support American and legalized workers.

Two sides to every coin, I am sure there are some jobs that some people just won't do and we could blame it on either side all day and not be wrong a single time. The solution lies in making sure that no one hires any illegals and when some people just won't do some jobs (like the farm stuff, I know for a fact that in San Diego farmers were offering up to 15 dllrs an hour, which I thought was a lot, and people wouldn't take the job. All the Mexicans working there had been deported a few months ago and the farms were left without employees.

So there is truth to both sides of the story, I still think however that the biggest fault here is that of people that hire illegals for a lesser pay. If no one would hire them they would just stop coming since there is no jobs being offered. So I salute you for not hiring anyone without legal working status, just make sure it isn't a fake SS# or whatever too or your just as guilty as the ones hiring for less.

ajhuff
03-11-2012, 08:51 AM
I never blame the illegal alien for working. I blame the bastard who hired the illegal alien. And what really irks me is that Guy that hires illegals usually is the ultra conservative type who supports stricter immigration. I.e. a lying two faced hypocrite. I've known too many like that.

-AJ

quantumcloud509
03-12-2012, 04:54 PM
Hi Dave. I have a small business and have success in hiring part-time help using Craig's List. I only consider those who post CV's which in your case would include woodworking background. Hope that helps and good luck!

Uuu uuu uuu!! Over here, over here! ;)


Heck, I work at a catering company and a college...we can't even find a good dishwasher!

Its because of high un employment...good workers are the only ones with jobs, and they are being saddled with doing everything, while all the suckfish are trying their hand at something new.

Plus everyone assumes that, worst case scenario, someone else will take care of them.

Dishwashers are hardest ones to find!


its funny, but i know quite a few people who keep saying to me that they wont take a job that pays less than their unemployment so they arent looking for jobs... weirds me out

Yeah two of my lazy ass friends are doing this. Its annoying as hell.


Yeah, it's not really a concrete comparison. We take home different amounts, and can buy different things with that money.

I worked a sushi bar, and got paid a flat salary, working 65 hours a week, my wife and daughter were at home(then only one daughter). I could barely cover my bills, and our one luxury was a Netflix account. We never ate out, we didn't go on a single date, I didn't even purchase a pair of shoes. I got 2 knives and a stone with my income tax return that year.

Meanwhile, the guy in the back that crept across the border got paid under the table, and was being paid out 60% of what I was. But in order to keep him there, the boss used their old, paid off house to shelter their under the table workers, and drove them to work in a van in the morning. So he had no rent, no car insurance/repairs/payments, no gas, no food, no electric bill, and no taxes. He sent some of his money back to family in Mexico, where a liver operation to save his father's life cost him what he spent on beer in a month--$700usd.

He tried to tell me one day that I made more money because I was a sushi chef. I then compared paychecks, asked about his bills and how much the exchange rate to mexico was, and what that could buy back home. The end result? He worked one less day a week than I did, and got 212% more than I got paid. It's not my boss' fault, or his. Nobody's scheming this thing out, it's just the end result of a backward system.


And as far as illegal immigrants working hard--you bet! If you walked 1200 miles through Mexico/Central America, got raped, robbed, and beaten a few times, thrown off the roof of a train, left to die of thirst in the desert by a coyote, snuck past a few dozen varieties of armed law enforcement, faced drug cartels and murdering thugs, and lived a double life in a foreign land to feed your family in Guatemala--yeah, you're probably a go-getter.

There is an implication, however, that it is morally acceptable to pay someone however little they are willing to take to do a job. If an out of work roofer comes to you and says "My family has just enough money to buy food, and used clothing to send our children to school, but we can't make rent this month. I will re-roof your house, I can tell it needs it. You pay materials, and I will do the job for $400 because it will take 2 weeks and that is what I need to cover rent at the end of the month." He may be willing to do anything for his family, and might be grateful and happy to do it. But that doesn't make it right.


It may seem a bit :offtopic: and I hope nobody's offended by it. But it is the heart of the issue--you know, in Georgia, they shooed illegal immigrants off the farms, and now nobody is doing the work. They either can't hack the work, or they aren't willing to do it. Don't try to tell me that there is something most Americans wouldn't do for the right price--and farm work isn't even morally objectionable! They just said "I could go out and break my back again for another $50 for the day. All I want to do is sleep, the work is exhausting. I got paid for 2 weeks, now I have $600, I'd lose $50 of it to not go to work today". So they don't go--it isn't worth it. Get them paid so that they go out and buy a home, and a car, and start a family...they aren't about to let that go for the luxury of a day's rest.

Thats one hell of a post reply, if ive ever read one.

quantumcloud509
03-12-2012, 04:56 PM
OOh yeah, I also agree with going to a finish carpenter and asking them. I kinda miss that line of work.

apicius9
03-12-2012, 05:08 PM
If I don't have a job by August I will probably work for a bed and food ;)

Stefan

ThEoRy
03-12-2012, 05:51 PM
If I don't have a job by August I will probably work for a bed and food ;)

Stefan

You will work for wood and handle materials and like it!! :lol2:

Tristan
03-12-2012, 09:48 PM
I think this is a powderkeg, but my 2 cents is that I find the entire idea of unemployment benefits weird. Guess it is an alien concept where I was brought up. Here, you do your share, however best you can, for whatever they will pay you to do it for and you lived your life. It is amazing how much knowing that nobody got your back pushed you forward to work harder to get what you need. Education also levels out the playing field for the average all the way to the top 10%. Not that it doesn't have its own problems, we face similar competition from neighbour countries too, but people who are able can't get away with just waiting for handouts.

Social benefits for the handicapped and the elderly and infirm are a different thing - but even then, it was mostly subsistence level payouts.

mhlee
03-13-2012, 11:05 AM
its funny, but i know quite a few people who keep saying to me that they wont take a job that pays less than their unemployment so they arent looking for jobs... weirds me out

I can understand not taking a job that pays less than unemployment, because that would also mean that you would be making less than unemployment and having less time to look for a better paying job. When I got laid off, looking for a job WAS a job. 8+ hours a day LOOKING for jobs, revising my resume, sending personalized letters, calling/meeting with headhunters, getting on the phone with contacts, etc.

But not looking at all???!!! You have to apply for jobs in CA in order to keep your unemployment benefits.

UCChemE05
03-13-2012, 12:02 PM
David, I would suggest reaching out to your local & regional woodworking clubs. You will be able to find some excellent, hardworking craftsmen. Between the people in the club and their friends who are at least decent woodworkers, there must be at least a small number of people who are close looking for work (even retired guys looking for sometime to fill part of their days).

If you do contract with a local cabinet or wordworking shop to provide you intermediate or final product, you'll want to make sure you have a clad contract that they cannot sell similar products to yours, particularly if you need to train them on the methods you've perfected to make your product one of the best.

Good luck!

mr drinky
03-13-2012, 12:19 PM
In economics there is this concept called 'adverse selection'. Essentially in the job market this means that good workers are actually working and employers will pay to retain them. So if you are a good worker you should (in theory) be working and all those people who are unemployed and applying are actually 'lemons'. Unfortunately, once you enter the unemployed ranks, you are 'marked' as a lemon even if that isn't the case. It is the same reason there is a much higher proportion of lemon cars in the used car market than should normally occur in the general 'car' population.

And it is the same thing that happens when you offer a great health care plan at work. The adverse selection process means that sick workers or people who have ill family members tend to apply more. So by offering a great health plan, you might actually have a bad result and have more sick days taken by workers. So if you have a good health plan and hire someone who is unemployed, you are more likely to get a sickly bad worker. Of course this doesn't always or often happen, but it can.

So the key is to hire someone who is already working at another job, but in tight job markets this means you are going to have to pay more.

k.

bprescot
03-13-2012, 12:41 PM
So the key is to hire someone who is already working at another job...


I remember when I was looking for a job down in this area, often as not the first question I would be asked was "Are you currently employed?" I don't know if anyone had the balls to come out and say it, but I got the definite feeling that certain companies were not interested in anyone that was currently unemployed. In a few months I'll get to see if that's changed at all since we'll be moving up to NYC area.

mano
03-17-2012, 10:16 AM
For years I used to think it was difficult to find a good boss. When I became one it became difficult to find a good employee.

Finding people who take pride in what they do and who follow the simple Golden Rule is not easy. When I hire my grown kids to help out I expect the same from them as anyone else. They're out of the house and I'm tapping the 16 year-old boy across the street who has a phenomenal work ethic. I've watched him for years and his dad is the same way. Wish there were more out there like him.

The BoardSMITH
03-18-2012, 07:22 AM
I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Chifunda
03-18-2012, 08:53 AM
I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Good luck with the cortisone injections. They helped my back quite a bit.:thumbsup:

Deckhand
03-18-2012, 10:05 PM
I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Hope you feel better, and your helper works out.

kalaeb
03-19-2012, 08:51 AM
I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work. Can't read a tape measure, hasn't worked in a wood shop, was going to UNC Charlotte but came back for financial reasons, is attending Guilford Technical Institute with the hopes of transferring to UNC Greensboro. He is a complete novice so I can train him as I want to and he was recommended by another young man who works at the shop that does my preliminary sanding on a 37" wide belt sander. I believe he will work out. Starts on Tuesday since I will be having cortisone injections in my back on Monday.

Sometimes its better to get to newbies. Then you can train them any way you want without having to break bad habits first. It can take a little longer, but wil be rewarding in the end.

Schtoo
03-21-2012, 12:37 AM
I did hire a young man on Saturday for part-time work.



Good to hear you got something worked out.

What might be worthwhile is seeking out older, retired folks who've either been cabinet makers/carpenters or have taken up the hobby since retiring.

Tell them what you need, give them a time frame how much you'll give them per board or whatever. Make sure it's an honest, fair rate but not so much work that it's going to be a full time job for them. If there's a particular way you want the boards made, explain that and make sure they stick to it.

They do something like that here, except it's officially organized. You'll see what they call the 'silver service' doing yard work, general laboring or whatever. I think they factor in you get a % of an able bodied worker, and you pay accordingly. It keeps the older folks busy and gives them some pocket money and they can work as often as they want. You can't contract them for proper, permanent work, but if you've got to load or unload a shipping container, clean up a yard, general unskilled work, then they're ideal.

And if they're older, retired folks and you have a few of them it'd not be something you need to sort out when you need the help (and are possibly unable to find the time or the person to plug the hole), and it would be instant help when you need it, but only when you need it.

Me, I got help coming in a week and a half. We shall see if she works out or not.

(But she'll be very, very distracting and a bit of a slave driver I think...)

Stu.

pumbaa
03-21-2012, 06:30 PM
Tell me about it. I'm looking for a grill cook now and after wading through all the jokers I finally find an applicant I feel is worth an interview and he no shows on me today! Go figure. You need work. I may offer you a position. WHA HAPPEN YOU GUY!!
If I was in NY/NJ I would take it, I would love to work with you.

ThEoRy
03-21-2012, 11:03 PM
If I was in NY/NJ I would take it, I would love to work with you.

You say that now, later you're all, "Rick's an assh0le!!......






but I learned a lot though.."

pumbaa
03-23-2012, 02:56 PM
******* I can take, and trust me if I am learning nothing else will bother me.

ThEoRy
03-24-2012, 12:23 AM
I gave a guy a working interview last week and he passed the test so I finally hired someone to fill the spot. Today was his first day to report for work and guess what? No call no show. You have got to be kidding me!

So now I've just promoted my "part timer" (55 hrs a week) to the full time grill position. He's a bit of a youngling project but I can't pass him up for the job a second time or he would eventually leave. It's only right that he gets his shot at it. He's proven himself so far but this is a whole new ball game. I hope he gets it down quick too as Easter Sunday is fast approaching and that one's been known to do a number on the grill guy over the years.

Fingers crossed!

pumbaa
03-24-2012, 01:16 AM
I take an ass whopping on the grill station since it is also our fry station. Well is until I start the Pastry chef job in April. Temps is what will get you in trouble quick I have found. If you keep on top of your drops and pick ups and dont have to recook you are golden but once you mess up 1 temp it is usually a downward spiral.