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View Full Version : New knife arrived - should I take to the stone?



Shinob1
03-14-2012, 11:00 PM
My Yoshihiro 210mm Gyuto arrived! I'm stoked, but the level of sharpness isn't where I hoped it would be. Should I use it for a bit first or just take it to the stone? Keep in mind that I have never freehand sharpened, I'm concerned I'll ruin the edge that's already on there.

Here are some pics. :biggrin: http://imgur.com/a/HXLao

K-Fed
03-14-2012, 11:15 PM
If you were planning on using this knife to learn sharpening on anyway and have a useable knife to use in the meantime should the freehand sharpening not go so well during the learning process I would say go for it. Also, if you haven't watched any of dave's or c-dawg's or Jon's sharpening videos I would highly recommend it. Im pretty confident in my sharpening abilities and still watch the videos from time to time. Always learn something new, or a new perspective, or get a better grasp how to get what I want out of my edges. Anyway enough rambling... and good luck =)

dough
03-14-2012, 11:21 PM
well i dont know ya nor what you consider sharp nor what stones you use so a lot unknown to me making this suggestion but there is only one way to learn to sharpen and it requires that you sharpen the knife.

ruin it is a funny concept mostly you can make it more time consuming to fix. if you take your time and dont push too hard odds are even if it doesnt look pretty it will still be sharp or sharper. anyway i dont think it will take you long to learn. sending it to someone like dave is nice because he can set the edge for you and then you can try to learn to maintain it til you realize your limits and then send it back to someone like him again. nice thing about dave you can try to sharpen it before you send it to him and most likely he will give you feedback. erven if dave is too far from you hopefully there are some other freehand sharpeners around because the feedback is so important and thats why these forums are so valuable beyond just the posts.

anyway goodluck im sure many more will chime in.

dough
03-14-2012, 11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezIEKGk9T0

see dave is a good time

Shinob1
03-14-2012, 11:40 PM
I have watched all of Jon's videos on sharpening along with Murray Carter, Salty Dog, the chef knifes to go videos and other random vids, but paid the most attention to Jon's videos. The knife is usable, but I think that the Global I bought was sharper out of the box.

I definitely plan on using this knife to learn freehand sharpening. I may give it a go on another knife first. Like you said I could send it to Dave to get some feedback and a good edge put on it.

zitangy
03-14-2012, 11:40 PM
I do it with all new knives..

do realize that the knife is sharp but may not be uber sharp.

I would not commence with anything lower than 3,000 grit stone and move on to higher grits. Slowly taking time to lightly grind and getting to know the knife ( profile and steel). I also tend to create alot of slurry for this kind of sharpening adn keeping it moist at the kind of " texture that I prefer. ( the drier it is the more abrasive it is) A spray bottle gives me better control as to the amt of water that i add each time.

I tend to use long strokes and generally lighter strokes so as to keep the profile and have a feel of it across the stone.

have fun

rgds
d

slowtyper
03-15-2012, 12:02 AM
yes

Taz575
03-15-2012, 12:25 AM
From the J knives I have, most come only partially sharpened. They are sharp, but no where near what they can be! Sharpen away I say!

GlassEye
03-15-2012, 01:54 AM
I say use it a few times then sharpen it, this way you can appreciate the significant increase in sharpness.

jaybett
03-15-2012, 02:13 AM
When I first get a knife, I like to use it a few times, before sharpening. It sets a bench mark on performance and sharpness. If an odd behavior occurs after I sharpen the knife, then I know its my fault.

I think there is a built reluctance for most us to sharpen. Generally articles on sharpening come to the conclusion that its better to send out your knifes, then to sharpen them yourselves. How many threads have we seen, where a new sharpener asks, why is my knife in a funny shape? Both put me off sharpening for a long time.

No matter whose system you use, the principles are the same raise a burr, reduce the burr, remove the burr.

The best advice I've heard for a new sharpener is to get a 1000-2000 grit stone, and practice raising and reducing a burr.

While the videos can offer a lot of insight into how to sharpen, its important to note that they are sharpening at speeds that only come with experience. As a new sharpener or experienced sharpener, its more important to be accurate then fast.

When I saw Jon Broida's videos on how to sharpen, I realized that I would have to learn it, if I ever picked up a single bevel knife. I spent some time just holding a knife in the different grips, until it started to feel comfortable.

The sharpie is probably the most valuable tool in learning how to sharpen. I'll run a sharpie two or three times, across the edge, when I sharpen. I'm thinking that I should run a sharpie more often, especially when doing tips.

Check, double check, and keep on checking your work. It's easier correct a mistake early on, then having to deal with high and low spots.

I screw things up, usually when I am frustrated. So at the first hints of frustration, I put the knife down and go do something else for a few minutes. I'll come back and try again. If I am still feeling frustrated, I'll put everything away, and sharpen on another day.

Jay

Shinob1
03-15-2012, 10:10 AM
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll start off sharpening one of my Henkel's to get the hang of things and use my new j-knife as is for a bit. On the sharpie method - are you guys not worried you'll mark up too high on the knife? I'm thinking that I'll use a dry-erase marker since it will come off with water.

EdipisReks
03-15-2012, 10:25 AM
sharpie comes off steel easily with a little rubbing alcohol, in my experience.

tk59
03-15-2012, 11:06 AM
Yeah, go slow and look often to watch what you're doing to your edge. I don't even use solvent to remove the sharpie. It tends to rub off pretty easily.

Pensacola Tiger
03-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll start off sharpening one of my Henkel's to get the hang of things and use my new j-knife as is for a bit. On the sharpie method - are you guys not worried you'll mark up too high on the knife? I'm thinking that I'll use a dry-erase marker since it will come off with water.

Since you are using water as a lubricant on your stones, using a water-soluble marker will defeat the purpose of marking the edge. As noted, rubbing alcohol will take off the marks.

Rick

EdipisReks
03-15-2012, 11:59 AM
Yeah, go slow and look often to watch what you're doing to your edge. I don't even use solvent to remove the sharpie. It tends to rub off pretty easily.

yeah, it rubs off easily enough, just be careful doing it. i once had the phone ring when i was removing sharpie from a knife, and i got an unpleasant surprise.

mhlee
03-15-2012, 01:27 PM
I would use the knife for a while with the original edge. That way, you have a point of comparison when you're sharpening, i.e., are you getting it sharper than the original, stock edge, and as to how long such an edge will last. Each knife is different.

SpikeC
03-15-2012, 05:36 PM
One of the best things for me is just looking really closely at what is going on where to steel meets the stone.

Justin0505
03-15-2012, 05:48 PM
Great looking blade! I haven't used one yet and will look forward to hearing your impressions.

As per usual on this forum, you're been given a lot of really great advice already.

I'll just reiterate some of it and add my 2:

-use it a couple times with the OTB edge to set a benchmark.

-my first "let's get to know eachother sharpening" is actually a stropping/honing and involves very little metal removal. I typically used my finest finishing stone and just work on finding the angle and improving/refining the work that the mfg started. This is a good time for the "sharpie method" because a fine finishing stone will remove the ink, but not much steel, so you can get lots of practice in just finding the edge and holding the angle.
It's training wheels; like learning how to trace and copy before learning how to draw free-hand.
I have yet to get an OTB edge that was so bad that I couldn't get it hair-popping sharp by just removing a micro or two of steel.

-Once you actually use the knife enough to wear the edge to where it needs more that a finishing stone, you should be much more comfortable with it around the stones and also have a better idea of how you might like to change its performance. You can then opt to gradually change the angle yourself, play with thinning, or send it to a pro like Dave, Jon, or Eamon and then spend more time "tracing" their work.

Remember: small steps, relax and have fun, and you probably won't "ruin" anything past the point where you or a pro could make it right again.

Shinob1
03-15-2012, 06:06 PM
I appreciate the advice! One thing is I only have a King1k stone - is that too abrasive for just starting out? Seems like a lot of folks recommend using a higher grit stone, but unfortunately I don't have one.

I am definitely going to use it as is for a bit to set that baseline, while using one of my older knives to practice sharpening. I figure once I can put an okay edge on one of my Henkels, I'll move on to the J-knife.

EdipisReks
03-15-2012, 07:23 PM
One of the best things for me is just looking really closely at what is going on where to steel meets the stone.

i have been going by feel for a long, long time, now. you can tell pretty easily if the edge is touching the stone, by feeling the junction and moving it a little bit up and down until it feels right.

EdipisReks
03-15-2012, 07:24 PM
I appreciate the advice! One thing is I only have a King1k stone - is that too abrasive for just starting out? Seems like a lot of folks recommend using a higher grit stone, but unfortunately I don't have one.

i think it's a good starting place. if anything, i think it's easier to make a knife cut well with a coarser stone than it is with a finer stone. with skill and experience, you can typically make a knife cut better with a finer stone, but it's easy to screw it up, too.

SpikeC
03-15-2012, 07:31 PM
If all you have is a 1k stone you can still do this, just use really light pressure.

Shinob1
03-15-2012, 10:48 PM
So I practiced on my Henkel Santoku. I'm having a hard time not wobbling. I did however put an edge on it. Paper test was pretty good and cutting food was okay. I made sure to deburr and some edge trailing strokes, but no stropping. I was content for my first time out, but definitely not ready to take my new knife to the stone.

I've decided to take a one on one class with Dave! I figure after the class I'll be ready to sharpen my new knife.

EdipisReks
03-15-2012, 11:06 PM
not wobbling just comes with practice.

SpikeC
03-15-2012, 11:40 PM
Well, if you aren't perfect by now you should just give up. I know that I was perfect before I actually sharpened something!

Shinob1
03-16-2012, 12:27 AM
Well, if you aren't perfect by now you should just give up. I know that I was perfect before I actually sharpened something!

Ya you're probably right. :wink:

FinkPloyd
03-16-2012, 02:34 AM
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll start off sharpening one of my Henkel's to get the hang of things and use my new j-knife as is for a bit. On the sharpie method - are you guys not worried you'll mark up too high on the knife? I'm thinking that I'll use a dry-erase marker since it will come off with water.

From personal experience, don't be eager to sharpen your Yoshihiro stainless just yet. I know, looking at Jon's videos it seems an easy task to sharpen a knife, but you need some practice first before you can touch that blade.

I would recommend that you get a cheap soft carbon knife and learn how to sharpen, first. This will be an inexpensive and easy introduction to sharpening. Once you gain some skill, move to Henkel's and feel the stainless steel. That's my opinion, but it might be wrong. Hence I encourage others to chime in.

My first Japanese knife was Fujiwara Kanefusa FKH-2 purchased from JCK website here http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html. It probably cost me $50.00 or less, shipping included. And, oh boy, although I watched so many sharpening videos in the past, I still managed to mess this knife in more then half a dozen ways; all because I was so eager. But, I knew my weakness and that's why I went for a cheap blade.

Start slow. Devote your attention, love and patience. You'll be ready for Yoshihiro sharpening challenge soon. In the meantime (according to your pictures) you have a plethora of Henkel's you can use. :wink:

Shinob1
03-16-2012, 11:08 AM
I appreciate the advice and definitely agree that I should hold off on sharpening the Yoshihiro. It has a decent edge and I can nurse it along until I'm ready to sharpen it myself.

When I first took to the stone yesterday, I tried to sharpen like Jon in his videos and that wasn't a good idea. Once I slowed down and took it in sections, I noticed an improvement. I didn't apply too much pressure, so not a whole long of steel was removed. I could tell though that I was hitting the secondary bevel a bit and probably was somewhere between thinning and sharpening as I was going along.

I plan on continuing to practice with this knife and will bring it to my class with Dave so he can evaluate it. I'm also considering buying an inexpensive carbon knife as you suggested to practice with as well.


From personal experience, don't be eager to sharpen your Yoshihiro stainless just yet. I know, looking at Jon's videos it seems an easy task to sharpen a knife, but you need some practice first before you can touch that blade.

I would recommend that you get a cheap soft carbon knife and learn how to sharpen, first. This will be an inexpensive and easy introduction to sharpening. Once you gain some skill, move to Henkel's and feel the stainless steel. That's my opinion, but it might be wrong. Hence I encourage others to chime in.

My first Japanese knife was Fujiwara Kanefusa FKH-2 purchased from JCK website here http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html. It probably cost me $50.00 or less, shipping included. And, oh boy, although I watched so many sharpening videos in the past, I still managed to mess this knife in more then half a dozen ways; all because I was so eager. But, I knew my weakness and that's why I went for a cheap blade.

Start slow. Devote your attention, love and patience. You'll be ready for Yoshihiro sharpening challenge soon. In the meantime (according to your pictures) you have a plethora of Henkel's you can use. :wink:

JBroida
03-16-2012, 12:01 PM
for what its worth, you know that i'm always here when you have questions and/or need help

Shinob1
03-16-2012, 12:46 PM
for what its worth, you know that i'm always here when you have questions and/or need help

I appreciate it! I should also clarify, when I said I trying to sharpen like you in your videos, what I was meaning to say is I tried to sharpen as fast using the techniques in the videos. After I slowed down and payed more attention, I started to get the hang of it.

Sharpening yesterday was the first time I've felt a burr, since beforehand I was using the spyderco system and never felt one,(I can only assume because you alternate strokes).

The one thing I'm struggling with understanding is how many times should I raise and reduce the burr and in that process, do I ease up on the pressure with each set of passes? I feel like I could use a list of steps to follow to make sure I am consistent. How many times to reduce the burr, pressure on each set of passes, when to deburr etc.