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heirkb
03-27-2011, 06:38 PM
I'm pretty new to all this kitchen knife stuff. I recently migrated over from the straight razor forums.

I want to start with a gyuto and petty for now. I figure that I don't slice enough meat or fish to justify a suji or yanagi. And I won't need a honesuki/hankotsu since a petty can probably handle any minor chicken boning, right?

So I have the gyuto figured out and now I need help with the petty. I'll write my thoughts and then maybe you guys can give me some feedback. I figure I could pick up a cheaper, smaller petty like a Carbonext, Fujiwara FKM, or something like that. My gyuto will be carbon, so I'd like to try something stainless/semi-stainless for the petty since I haven't tried any Japanese knives, yet. The other option for the petty in my mind is to go for something really nice. The options I've thought of are 210mm Konosuke HD or 210mm Suisin Inox Honyaki. I haven't tested enough to know what I like or don't like, but I figured that given the high praise both these lines get (Konosuke HD and Suisin Inox Honyaki), it'd be a pretty safe bet if I ended up choosing one of them. What do you guys think? Would it be worth it for me as a newbie to pick up one of the two more expensive knives or should I wait and experiment with a few cheaper ones?

Rottman
03-27-2011, 06:51 PM
If you want to start with a gyuto and a petty I'd say a Konosuke or Suisin 210 is too close to the gyuto and too far from a petty (135-150 mm) that you'd wanna use when the gyuto is too big. I'd rather start with a 150 mm petty on a budget (Carbonext gets high praise but there's many more).

Pensacola Tiger
03-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Which gyuto have you decided to get? That will enter into the petty recommendation.

99Limited
03-27-2011, 08:34 PM
I bought my first petty, a 150mm Ashi wa-petty, about a month ago and I've found it to be extremely useful. It's one of the best sized knives I've ever used to prep broccoli and cauliflower into flowerettes. I LOVE MY PETTY, sorry I get carried away when I talk about my petty. :biggrin:

MikeZ
03-27-2011, 10:15 PM
Welcome heirkb, but be carefull. You might endup like me and spending all your free cash on kitchen knives now...

Jim
03-27-2011, 10:55 PM
Ehsan,

I am over the moon with my Konosuke 150mm Petty from Jon. I reach for it all the time!

150 is a good sized petty to start with, in time you may want a shorter one, but I just dont see the need for a longer one in my kitchen.

Happy hunting!


http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=21525

Andy777
03-27-2011, 11:09 PM
I'm kinda wierd, I like a longer petty 150-180 range. It is a good compliment to my cleavers. I like them for random quick cutting and trimming meat etc. I would highly recommend a "wa" style versus western style. I'm not a fan at all of the western handled pettys, too blade heavy not nimble IMHO etc. I have two Takedas that I use almost daily (145 and 170). I've always wanted to try one of these Tadatsunas, the 180 in particular.

http://itkitchenknife.com/j_catalog/j_images/g1-2.jpg

http://itkitchenknife.com/j_catalog/youtou1.shtml

Andy777
03-27-2011, 11:17 PM
Apparently I'm not cool enough to be able to upload a pic, so I had to get one hosted elsewhere. Anyway here's an obligatory pic of my 145 Takeda.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4959/takedapettycustom.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/takedapettycustom.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

FryBoy
03-27-2011, 11:30 PM
If you prefer a western-style knife, check out the Maruyoshi knives from ChefKnivestoGo.com -- excellent knives, IMHO, made by Ryusen, same as those sold under the Hattori HD and other monikers, but with a different kanji. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/hattoriknives.html

Jameson
03-28-2011, 12:11 AM
I'm kinda wierd, I like a longer petty 150-180 range. It is a good compliment to my cleavers. I like them for random quick cutting and trimming meat etc. I would highly recommend a "wa" style versus western style. I'm not a fan at all of the western handled pettys, too blade heavy not nimble IMHO etc. I have two Takedas that I use almost daily (145 and 170). I've always wanted to try one of these Tadatsunas, the 180 in particular.

http://itkitchenknife.com/j_catalog/j_images/g1-2.jpg

http://itkitchenknife.com/j_catalog/youtou1.shtml

Andy IN response to the length you prefer I also prefer something in the 5-6" range in a petty. However, after trying a few japanese ones, I still prefer a 30 year old Sabatier (taken from my father since the handle was cracked off) that has an absolute dead flat profile. This knife also takes an insane edge, is very thin, and full tang/bolster removes any blade heavy feeling.

I have re-handled this knife, with wooden scales made from an old cigar box. Soon i will put up a pic.

This is not to say I wont eventually find one I prefer to the sabatier (it is a MERCEUR & co sabatier [sp?]) same line sold at surlatable, however I prefer the stainless INOXYDABLE line for my petty, gets alot of chicken and boning duties.... The au carbon line is great as well, but after much trial the inox for my uses in a petty, are preferable. I do prefer a carbon gyuto, and less often a carbon santoku for most of my other work...

JC

apicius9
03-28-2011, 05:11 AM
I always loved these long Tadatsuna petties, they are so elegant. At one point I asked Moritaka to make something similar for me. What I ended up with is a very cool knife that is a mix between a petty and a salmon knife, ultra thin and narrow. I think that means I still need a petty... But I do have a Blazen petty that is a bit shorter, but I really like it for a Western handled small utility knife. A small Carter funayuki also works well as a petty, and you can get them in different styles. And I admit that I sometimes reach for a honesuki when I need something in that size but sturdier, for cutting off a chunk of parmesan etc.

Stefan

Craig
03-28-2011, 08:05 AM
Two or so years ago I asked basically the same question, and every other reply seemed to recommend Watanabe. Times change, I guess.

I'm very happy with the Watanabe, but really have no basis for comparison.

heirkb
03-28-2011, 04:21 PM
Thank you for all your responses everyone. In case it helps, the gyuto that I am getting is a 240mm kasumi Shigefusa wa gyuto. I will look into all the other petty's (petties?) that you guys recommended.

Jim, is yours the Konosuke HD, the regular stainless, or the white #2? I think those are the three options that Jon has, right?

oivind_dahle
03-28-2011, 04:24 PM
Go with a shigefusa from Marko then :)

Jim
03-28-2011, 04:25 PM
Thank you for all your responses everyone. In case it helps, the gyuto that I am getting is a 240mm kasumi Shigefusa wa gyuto. I will look into all the other petty's (petties?) that you guys recommended.

Jim, is yours the Konosuke HD, the regular stainless, or the white #2? I think those are the three options that Jon has, right?
Mine is the white #2

Cadillac J
03-28-2011, 09:36 PM
If you are just new to j-knives, a wa-handled light knife might not even be what you are looking for. If you want a 150mm or less petty, then I think the CarboNext is a no-nonsense blade that will get sharp and hold it.

However, if you want a longer petty(like myself) and love wa-handles...you can't go wrong with a 180/210 Tadatsuna/Suisin Inox/Konosuke HD

I can't see myself ever giving this thing up! Here is my 210 petty for a size comparison versus a regular 150mm petty
http://i53.tinypic.com/znqxz8.jpg

Kentucky Jeff
03-29-2011, 10:49 AM
First off. If it were me knowing what I know now I would buy a Gyuto and a good paring knife. The petty would be my third purchase. Personally, I prefer a petty to be light nimble and thin. I'm not as big a fan of bigger petty's and I'm not talking strictly about length. I have two petty's I adore. One is my 150mm Ichimonji TKC and the other is a 150mm Tadatsuna in White Steel. Both are thin, small in terms of heel to spine ratios and have a superb taper and thin point. The petty's I own and am less fond of are both 150mm knives which are really more like scaled down gyutos are the Hiro AS and my Devin Thomas Petty. These bigger pettys lack the nimble dexterity I want in a petty. The blades are too wide to turn well when making curving cuts IMO. They are'nt bad knives per-se. Particularly when you are looking for a knife to work like a smaller gyuto for some precise simple cuts like say brunoise of garlic etc.

Good Paring Knife? I like my Misono 80mm Swedish Steel knife. I also like the 80mm Dojo knives with the blue steel core. But the Dojo has a hot spot on the back of the handle and you need to round off the pointy edge of the handle with some sandpaper to make it comfortable IMO. Not a big deal and it won't alter the appearance of the knife one iota as long as you don't go crazy. Just round that edge a little with som 400 grit sandpaper and nobody will know it...except you will feel it!

tweyland
03-29-2011, 12:19 PM
Minamoto Kotetsu 150mm Sandvik 19C27 western handle
http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/by-brand/minamoto-kotetsu/2387.html

Konosuke 150mm stainless wa handle
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/konosuke-sakai/konosuke-150mm-stainless-wa-petty.html

Sounds like your budget allows for some nicer stuff, but these are good values if you go that way. Thin, nimble, good edges.

~Tad

festally
03-29-2011, 02:06 PM
I use a petty to debone poulty, but I’m only cutting through the joints, around (not through any) bones, and can have the time to ensure my cuts aren’t misaligned. A honesuki is like a very stout petty. You get the nibleness / maneuverablity of a petty along with a thicker blade that could plow through not quite dead on joint cuts with ease.

deanb
03-30-2011, 08:47 PM
One of the most used knives in my kitchen is my 210 mm Suisin Inox Honyaki Wa petty. It's really, really thin. It takes an insane edge and it's hard enough (RC 62 I think) to keep it that way with a few swipes on a loaded strop from time to time. At the other end of the length spectrum, I have a 3" Shun Kramer paring knife. I love this little puppy. You can perform a lot of knife tasks with a long flexible petty and a short stiff paring knife. Of course this may be a little overkill but that's what happens when you get the bug.

heirkb
03-31-2011, 05:41 PM
So I've been looking around and reading some more and have come up with a few options. I'll have to go to Korin to handle a few before I really decide on size, but let's say 150-180 for now. Here's what I've narrowed it to (not really narrowed):

150 Konosuke HD
150-180 Yoshikane SKD11 or 12 (I can't remember)
150 Carbonext
150 Ichimonji TKC

So the Konosuke and Yoshikane would be the more expensive ones and the Carbonext and Ichimonji would be somewhat cheaper. What do you guys think? Can anyone compare any of the ones I listed with each other on any of the following: ease of sharpening, the sharpness of the edge, dimensions, edge retention, etc.?

Cadillac J
04-01-2011, 10:52 AM
I think those are all good options...IMO, the deciding factor would be do you want wa- or yo-handle. Also, the Konosuke HD pricing includes a saya, so I think you can opt out of that for cheaper if you wish.

I've never sharpened SKD before, but you shouldn't have problem with the semi-stainless at all if you are comfortable in your abilities. Then again, I've never came across a knife or steel that I considered 'hard' to sharpen...just ones that feel better on the stones and the burr just melts away.

Lefty
04-01-2011, 02:05 PM
Or just do what I'm doing and get Pierre to make you one to your specs.:biggrin2:
38mm at the heel and 175mm sounds juuuuusssst right!
Sorry, I had to brag. Is it August yet?? Haha

Pensacola Tiger
04-01-2011, 02:07 PM
Or just do what I'm doing and get Pierre to make you one to your specs.:biggrin2:
38mm at the heel and 175mm sounds juuuuusssst right!
Sorry, I had to brag. Is it July yet?? Haha

What steel? CPM154? O1?

Lefty
04-01-2011, 02:08 PM
Great question...

Lefty
04-01-2011, 02:12 PM
Yes I did that on purpose! Haha
Not sure if it's a secret or not. Can I get back to you??

Pensacola Tiger
04-01-2011, 02:15 PM
I don't want you to break a confidence, I was just curious.

Lefty
04-01-2011, 02:21 PM
I don't think he'd care either way, but I'll hold off for now...I'm not sure just how top secret the Mad genius's plans are :)

WildBoar
04-01-2011, 02:37 PM
x2 on the Pierre petty. He made a 150 for me last summer (CPM154). Profile and distal taper are great, but I went a little too thick (1/8" instead of 3/32", if I remember correctly), which limits the use sometimes. But it still gets a heavy workout. Got it with the hybrid handle, which works well for me with a blade that size.

Lefty
04-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Well, thank you for that!
Pierre specifically mentioned starting with 3/32, with the end result being slightly thinner.
Your knife and jon broida's are actually the two that tipped me over the edge.

pablowest
04-02-2011, 07:34 AM
I'm pretty new to all this kitchen knife stuff. I recently migrated over from the straight razor forums.

I want to start with a gyuto and petty for now. I figure that I don't slice enough meat or fish to justify a suji or yanagi. And I won't need a honesuki/hankotsu since a petty can probably handle any minor chicken boning, right?

So I have the gyuto figured out and now I need help with the petty. I'll write my thoughts and then maybe you guys can give me some feedback. I figure I could pick up a cheaper, smaller petty like a Carbonext, Fujiwara FKM, or something like that. My gyuto will be carbon, so I'd like to try something stainless/semi-stainless for the petty since I haven't tried any Japanese knives, yet. The other option for the petty in my mind is to go for something really nice. The options I've thought of are 210mm Konosuke HD or 210mm Suisin Inox Honyaki. I haven't tested enough to know what I like or don't like, but I figured that given the high praise both these lines get (Konosuke HD and Suisin Inox Honyaki), it'd be a pretty safe bet if I ended up choosing one of them. What do you guys think? Would it be worth it for me as a newbie to pick up one of the two more expensive knives or should I wait and experiment with a few cheaper ones?

I think that you should experiment and wait for the cheaper one. These days you need to be more practical. :D

SpikeC
04-02-2011, 12:48 PM
:evilgrin: Na, you should do what I did and get a Mr. Tanaka Damascus 150 with desert ironwood handle and mosaic pins. Why mess around?

http://thebestthings.com/knives/graphics/tanaka_petty_150.jpg

oivind_dahle
04-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Go for the big league:

Bill Burke (Price: High)
http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=88201

Devin Thomas (Price: High - medium)
http://www.devinthomas.com/photoGallery.cfm?id=B0A9B0B1-1D09-2E94-8F240EC68F1B9D8D

Pierre Rodrigues (Price: medium)
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAZa41vdVW7jXIQDO9WINJv0THvCkXp ZEVGZ_JkS0Yp-r8NQpl&t=1


Or try out one of the newcomers in the vendor section here at KKF

All the makers will make custom (you name what you want).

Prepare for some waiting time, at least 1 year :)

rancho
04-14-2011, 09:46 PM
i bought a moritaka 150mm petty and it's a great little knife. the sad part is, that i love my moritaka 240mm gyuto so much that it rarely gets used. i even installed a magnetic rack right above my chopping board so i could switch easily when i have small tasks, but it never seems to happen!

Salty dog
04-14-2011, 10:51 PM
Masamoto white steel #2 165mm

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a442/Saltys_knives/IMG_4358a.jpg

NO ChoP!
04-15-2011, 12:25 AM
I just picked up a Sakai Yusuke 150mm.... its a pretty damn good blade for the money. Same class as a Konosuke or Tadatsuna, just less money.....

Lefty
04-15-2011, 12:38 AM
No Chop,
I've heard similar sentiments about the Sakai Yusuke before.
They must be great knives.

NO ChoP!
04-15-2011, 01:17 AM
I do have one complaint.... with the pettys, the kanji is painted on. Not a fan at all of this; but as a Konosuke owner also, I would tell you in every other aspect, it is just as nice, maybe even better. (Where the tang enters the handle is perfect; no glue, exact size cut-out; very seamless--unusual) Often the blonde ferrule is available as well, which is a neat option....

heirkb
04-15-2011, 12:53 PM
I do have one complaint.... with the pettys, the kanji is painted on. Not a fan at all of this; but as a Konosuke owner also, I would tell you in every other aspect, it is just as nice, maybe even better. (Where the tang enters the handle is perfect; no glue, exact size cut-out; very seamless--unusual) Often the blonde ferrule is available as well, which is a neat option....

Where do you buy these Sakai Yusuke knives? I have a petty on order, but I'm looking for a cheaper but still nice knife for someone else and maybe these would work for that. I know Fujiwaras are another option.

EDIT: These are the ones labeled "Swedish stainless" from bluewayjapan? I didn't see any mention of Yusuke on his auction titles, though. Just the city name Sakai.

mainaman
04-15-2011, 01:13 PM
Where do you buy these Sakai Yusuke knives? I have a petty on order, but I'm looking for a cheaper but still nice knife for someone else and maybe these would work for that. I know Fujiwaras are another option.

EDIT: These are the ones labeled "Swedish stainless" from bluewayjapan? I didn't see any mention of Yusuke on his auction titles, though. Just the city name Sakai.here
http://stores.ebay.com/bluewayjapan
if you read the description of the knives it says the brand is Sakai yusuke, for the ones we discuss here.
Yesterday I grabbed a 210mm White 2 Suji to use as petty too.

heirkb
04-15-2011, 01:19 PM
Thanks. I don't know how I managed to miss the obvious category "Brand", where he writes Sakai Yusuke. :rolleyes2:

Kyle
04-15-2011, 01:54 PM
I know this thread is about pettys but does anyone have any experience with the debas that blueway sells? I'd like something to start with a cheap one to figure out if I'll actually use it and this certainly fits the budget I'm thinking!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-SAKAI-Carbon-Steel-Deba-Knife165mm-Akebono-/380329071783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588d6114a7

Cadillac J
04-15-2011, 02:17 PM
does anyone have any experience with the debas that blueway sells? I'd like something to start with a cheap one to figure out if I'll actually use it and this certainly fits the budget I'm thinking!


No, but Brandon from FF always recommends the Hon Kasumi deba from Epicurean Edge and it is under $100...check it out.

mainaman
04-15-2011, 02:21 PM
I know this thread is about pettys but does anyone have any experience with the debas that blueway sells? I'd like something to start with a cheap one to figure out if I'll actually use it and this certainly fits the budget I'm thinking!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-SAKAI-Carbon-Steel-Deba-Knife165mm-Akebono-/380329071783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588d6114a7
the FF looks good I am not sure about the steel , I personally would go for White 2 for deba.

mainaman
04-15-2011, 02:33 PM
No, but Brandon from FF always recommends the Hon Kasumi deba from Epicurean Edge and it is under $100...check it out.
I have it too it is a great knife, with very nice FF

Kyle
04-15-2011, 02:43 PM
No, but Brandon from FF always recommends the Hon Kasumi deba from Epicurean Edge and it is under $100...check it out.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Thanks!

tgraypots
04-15-2011, 03:37 PM
How about the Hon Kasumi usuba? Any thoughts on that?

Rottman
04-15-2011, 10:00 PM
How about the Hon Kasumi usuba? Any thoughts on that?

Seems to be hit or miss. I got the lefty version of it just to try single bevels. Grind is far from perfect, uneven on the holow back and a big overgrind on the heel.

rancho
04-17-2011, 08:45 PM
I know this thread is about pettys but does anyone have any experience with the debas that blueway sells? I'd like something to start with a cheap one to figure out if I'll actually use it and this certainly fits the budget I'm thinking!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-SAKAI-Carbon-Steel-Deba-Knife165mm-Akebono-/380329071783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588d6114a7

i bought one of these recently and am very pleased with it for the price.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Japanese-YAMAWAKU-chestnut-chef-knife-Deba-houchou-165-/200599127638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb4a3c656

the handle is nice for a cheap knife, but the ferrule is plastic. has a really nice kuro-uchi finish and the blue steel is very reactive and builds a patina quickly. oob edge is average, but that's expected with a $60 knife. the blade road in the pictures looks a bit uneven but mine was much better.