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View Full Version : Should Twin Cermax chip this easily? (high-res pictures included)



ptolemy
04-11-2012, 06:09 PM
I got it few month ago and been using it mainly for fruit cutting, mincing of garlic and few other basic uses. Last night I was looking at it and notices several chips. Should this happen? Is this inherent to anything that hard?

I guess I'll need to replace it or something.

Here are the pics from different angles (You can right click, copy image url and open it in new window for super high res pics)

TIA :)

http://i.imgur.com/MhW6W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2mTPw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ejNkO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TBcgU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RjKj3.jpg

heldentenor
04-11-2012, 07:46 PM
Mine chips in exactly the same way after I sharpen it, I presume from contact with the board. While I like my Cermax's performance in nearly every other respect, it chips frequently. Others have reported the same problem--I can only presume that it's from taking the steel to such extreme hardness.

tk59
04-11-2012, 08:09 PM
I've had my modified Cermax for a couple of years now. It still gets some use. I can't say I've ever had chipping to that extent. If I were you, I'd sharpen it, and inspect after each use to see where the chipping is coming from and then see if I can modify my technique in a minor way to reduce the chipping. I'd also think about putting a microbevel on it.

Eamon Burke
04-11-2012, 10:50 PM
What kind of board are you cutting on? What are you honing it with?

If you are using a bamboo board, or a lesser quality rod(like a diamond grit rod) that kind of thing can happen.

Those are bad! Don't think it's by any means shocking, but it is not a sign of normally acceptable chippage. The most chipping you should ever see on a knife(if you ever see any at all) is about 1/3 of the way up the edge bevel.

ptolemy
04-11-2012, 11:12 PM
Since I use it for fruit/small dice work, I do use a bamboo board. I don't use a hone period. I use it maybe 2-3 times a week, so since I got it, maybe used 30-40 times for small use, so didn't even sharpen it yet.

EdipisReks
04-12-2012, 12:30 AM
i owned a 240 Cermax gyuto and, before i sold it, i ran it through its paces. i had no chipping, even when dressing chickens, something that often chips my gyutos. i use good boards, though.

James
04-12-2012, 12:45 AM
try sharpening it and see if chipping persists; I sharpened+thinned mine right out of the box and haven't had a chipping problem yet. I use mine on an end grain board, cut fruits and veggies with it and bone chickens as well

Eamon Burke
04-12-2012, 12:51 AM
When I still had a bamboo board at home, and poly at work, I would use my Tojiro without issues at work, and then a day off at home being used rendered a bunch of little chips.

Consider a new board. Even a poly board.

Eamon Burke
04-12-2012, 12:52 AM
Also, if it is being stored in a drawer, other things will bang into it and do that. That even happens on the soft stuff.

Benuser
04-12-2012, 01:50 AM
Remove the stem by hand from the apple before cutting it. A cut through the stem will damage almost every blade

EdipisReks
04-12-2012, 01:54 AM
Remove the stem by hand from the apple before cutting it. A cut through the stem will damage almost every blade

not in my experience, and i have knives that are almost quantum at the edge.

chuck239
04-12-2012, 04:23 AM
I have never had the stem of an apple chip a knife. Any knife. Also I have a ceremax petty and don't have much issue with chipping. I have never used it on a bamboo board though. Do you do any sort of rocking motion with the knife on the bamboo?

-Chuck

ptolemy
04-12-2012, 04:30 AM
I have a better board but I usually cut my fruit/etc near computer, so I have to use smaller board.
My knives hang on a magnet, so that's not the issue. I think it's likely the bamboo board.

Thanks for the advice.

Lefty
04-12-2012, 11:10 AM
Head to Homesense or Marshall's (or whatever is around you) and grab a small edge grain maple or cherry board. If there's birch, it's great too. I actually almost prefer edge grain, because they have less glue joints, and I like the feedback they give compared to end-grain. Obviously end-grain is "preferred", but I don't feel it's necessary.
I have adopted the school of thought that I shouldn't have to sacrifice usability to have a good performing knife. My Rodriguereally opened my eyes in regards to what a knife should be able to handle. Cartilage? No problem. Chicken rib bones, apple stems, Rosemary stems, leeks, etc? Who cares, this thing should plow through.
To me, these are tools first, collector's items second. Other than a specialized knife, such as a yanagi-ba, I shouldn't have to think twice about it. A gyuto is a multipurpose knife, and should be able to be used as such.

chinacats
04-12-2012, 11:40 AM
To me, these are tools first, collector's items second. Other than a specialized knife, such as a yanagi-ba, I shouldn't have to think twice about it. A gyuto is a multipurpose knife, and should be able to be used as such.

+1 even with my soft Sab

tk59
04-12-2012, 01:10 PM
...I have adopted the school of thought that I shouldn't have to sacrifice usability to have a good performing knife...Cartilage... Chicken rib bones, apple stems, Rosemary stems, leeks, etc...Every time you use a knife of any kind made out of any material to cut anything, you are damaging the knife. Whether you can detect that damage, is another question. That said, I don't think there is any question that the Cermax flavor of zdp-189 can handle these sorts of tasks without excessive chipping. It certainly does in my kitchen.

NO ChoP!
04-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Head to Homesense or Marshall's (or whatever is around you) and grab a small edge grain maple or cherry board. If there's birch, it's great too. I actually almost prefer edge grain, because they have less glue joints, and I like the feedback they give compared to end-grain. Obviously end-grain is "preferred", but I don't feel it's necessary.


That's awesome....I love it when people go against the grain, so to speak......

I too, find my cherry Boo's edge blocks to be more than sufficient. I have found that a blade actually bites into edge grain too much, causing it to slow.

NO ChoP!
04-12-2012, 01:20 PM
...and +1 to thinning the heck out of it, and putting your own edge on it. I found mine to be a little clunky behind the edge. I would suggest deliberate front to back motions with zero side to side torque as such hard steel can be unforgiving.

I had little issues with it, but I recently sold it to one of my line cooks, who has experienced chipping when cutting through peppercorn crusted steaks... but he uses a poly board on his station as well, which I warned him of...

ptolemy
04-12-2012, 02:42 PM
I called Henckels just to ask how prevalent it is and such and they told me that they don't have the data and that these along with anything micro carbide is discontinued, such as 7000mc, 7000d, 7000mcd, 600mc. So, even if your knife is damaged, they won't replace it and offer u something from german steel.

Justin0505
04-12-2012, 03:13 PM
I called Henckels just to ask how prevalent it is and such and they told me that they don't have the data and that these along with anything micro carbide is discontinued, such as 7000mc, 7000d, 7000mcd, 600mc. So, even if your knife is damaged, they won't replace it and offer u something from german steel.

Thats very interesting. I guess they got sick of warranty returns on really pricey steel.

I have been using MC blades for over 5 years and have sold all but 2 (will eventually get down to 1). I found a partially convex edge that holds up pretty well even on poly and epicurean boards, but you do sacrifice some cutting resistance on certain things.

ptolemy
04-12-2012, 03:30 PM
Thats very interesting. I guess they got sick of warranty returns on really pricey steel.

I have been using MC blades for over 5 years and have sold all but 2 (will eventually get down to 1). I found a partially convex edge that holds up pretty well even on poly and epicurean boards, but you do sacrifice some cutting resistance on certain things.

Also, she said to me that msrp on them is $79.95 while every other site lists at $195. I suspect that's their vendor price before clearance? Bauce cutlery and more sold it for $50, so they likely got them for $20 a pop :P