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NO ChoP!
04-19-2012, 11:08 AM
So I'm used to keeping my knives sharp. I'd say @ 90% I would at least perform a touch up. I decided to test how long i could go before actually being forced to sharpen. It's been 2 months and I'm surprised to say my edges are mostly at about 80%. No where near what I'm used to, but still completely useable. I think I will take them a little further still; maybe to the point where I feel I have to saw to pierce skin. So, are are we anal and unreasonably wearing our blades to expect to keep an edge at above 90%?

tk59
04-19-2012, 11:35 AM
Heresy, I say!! :guillotine:

Yeah, probably...

obtuse
04-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Ive found the same thing in my trials, but i also rotate my knives a lot. One impressive feat of edge retention was how my fathera IT sab could still slice paper after a year without sharpening, just steeling. It wasnt fresh of the stones, but still usable.

Eamon Burke
04-19-2012, 11:46 AM
I would venture to say that it's your technique that is making them work, not the edge.

I don't think it's wearing mine down too fast--the one I sharpen the most is my CCK(because the steel is crappy), and it's still got YEARS in it.

But you could totally go a long time without sharpening, it's a preference--I sharpen junkers for a pro kitchen, they'll get a few weeks of happiness out of them, and three times that if they have a good honing rod. I get a day out of a fresh edge on those knives and want to throw them in the garbage.

I had a Honda Accord when I was a broke teenager and didn't do a speck of maintenance for two years on it--just filled it up with gas all the time(even let it run totally out a few times). No spark plugs, no oil, no tire pressure, not even a good detailing. It still got 28 mpg highway and started every morning. Lots of people do that. I wouldn't recommend it though.

obtuse
04-19-2012, 11:49 AM
I would venture to say that it's your technique that is making them work, not the edge.

I don't think it's wearing mine down too fast--the one I sharpen the most is my CCK(because the steel is crappy), and it's still got YEARS in it.

But you could totally go a long time without sharpening, it's a preference--I sharpen junkers for a pro kitchen, they'll get a few weeks of happiness out of them, and three times that if they have a good honing rod. I get a day out of a fresh edge on those knives and want to throw them in the garbage.

I had a Honda Accord when I was a broke teenager and didn't do a speck of maintenance for two years on it--just filled it up with gas all the time(even let it run totally out a few times). No spark plugs, no oil, no tire pressure, not even a good detailing. It still got 28 mpg highway and started every morning. Lots of people do that. I wouldn't recommend it though.

I like your car analogy

tk59
04-19-2012, 11:52 AM
I'd been sharpening some knives for a guy on a regular basis. Every time I got the knife back, it had chips in it and the tip was broken and I would fix them, thinking he wanted them fixed. After a while, he started mentioning that he thought his knife was shrinking. Now, I don't bother fixing it. I just sharpen. He is much happier, lol.

tk59
04-19-2012, 11:58 AM
About the car analogy. That's true but if you're really removing all the fatigued metal, you will kill your knife a lot faster.

Eamon Burke
04-19-2012, 11:59 AM
I'd been sharpening some knives for a guy on a regular basis. Every time I got the knife back, it had chips in it and the tip was broken and I would fix them, thinking he wanted them fixed. After a while, he started mentioning that he thought his knife was shrinking. Now, I don't bother fixing it. I just sharpen. He is much happier, lol.

You should return the knife, freshly sharpened, with a free one of these (http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hammers-mallets-sledges/16-oz-claw-hammer-66862.html).

Eamon Burke
04-19-2012, 12:01 PM
About the car analogy. That's true but if you're really removing all the fatigued metal, you will kill your knife a lot faster.

There the similarity stops. Hey, it was an analogy, not a parable! :lol2:

Dave Martell
04-19-2012, 03:13 PM
I'd been sharpening some knives for a guy on a regular basis. Every time I got the knife back, it had chips in it and the tip was broken and I would fix them, thinking he wanted them fixed. After a while, he started mentioning that he thought his knife was shrinking. Now, I don't bother fixing it. I just sharpen. He is much happier, lol.


Boy can I relate to that. :D

FWIW, it can help to mention that you didn't remove the steel - he did - you just finished the job. :biggrin:

Crothcipt
04-19-2012, 06:37 PM
I have been thinking about this the last few weeks. I had my guyto chipping because of the board at work and was having to keep fixing them. After some time looking at the blade after every cut I figured out what I was doing. But in the mean time I sharpened it 3x. I also let a santoku go to dull and it ended up just needing stropped, I never even used a rod. I am thinking that when you start noticing a burr that is when you need to sharpen again. Am I worn in thinking that?

mpukas
04-19-2012, 08:00 PM
I have been thinking about this the last few weeks. I had my guyto chipping because of the board at work and was having to keep fixing them. After some time looking at the blade after every cut I figured out what I was doing. But in the mean time I sharpened it 3x. I also let a santoku go to dull and it ended up just needing stropped, I never even used a rod. I am thinking that when you start noticing a burr that is when you need to sharpen again. Am I worn in thinking that?

My thought is that if you're seeing a burr after some continued use, you've got fatigued metal at the edge, or a wire edge to start with, and you should take the knife to a coarse stone to remove that weak metal and start a fresh edge.



Re: the OP, I haven't sharpened my main knife (white #2) in many weeks either. It's gotten fairly dull, like less that 75-70%, and frustrating to use. What I have noticed, though, is that the edge settled, as JBro puts it, and maintained a certain level of sharpness for quite some time. It reminds me of what several people have posted re: PM steels and how they loose their inital sharpness quickly, but then settle for a length of time, before further noticeably degrading. Seems to me now that most if not all steels will exhibit this characteristic, just in (minor) varying degrees depending on steel, bevel angle, use, environment, etc. I've not noticed any deformation of the edge or wire edges/burrs.

I have noticed that the sharper the edge, the quciker it looses that initial sharpness. When I strop on boron, chro, and leather, that smooth shaving sharp edge doesn't last long. When I just finish w/ light strops on the 8K GS, the edge isn't as smooth, has some bite, and seems to keep that character longer than if I went to the loaded/leather strops.

I really, really like that fresh edge feeling, but I can live with an 85-90% edge most of the time. Bottom line for me is if I want that keen, fresh, edge, I just need to sharpen more often. Funny thing is, even at 75% my main J-knife is still way sharper than the German steel I was using pre-Japanese Steel Revelation.

Benuser
04-20-2012, 03:35 PM
What do you mean by an edge being settled?

mpukas
04-20-2012, 04:56 PM
After the initial freash edge wears off, there's a period of very slow degredation - the edge has "settled" meaning that it's not dulling at the same rate as when the knife was fresh off the stones. It's still getting duller with use, just not as quickly. It's still sharp, not as sharp as it was, and not so not-sharp that it's not functioning the way intended.

Maybe Jon can define it better/differently. mpp

Benuser
04-20-2012, 06:54 PM
Thank you, Mpukas!

tk59
04-20-2012, 07:07 PM
My thought is that if you're seeing a burr after some continued use, you've got fatigued metal at the edge, or a wire edge to start with, and you should take the knife to a coarse stone to remove that weak metal and start a fresh edge.



Re: the OP, I haven't sharpened my main knife (white #2) in many weeks either. It's gotten fairly dull, like less that 75-70%, and frustrating to use. What I have noticed, though, is that the edge settled, as JBro puts it, and maintained a certain level of sharpness for quite some time. It reminds me of what several people have posted re: PM steels and how they loose their inital sharpness quickly, but then settle for a length of time, before further noticeably degrading. Seems to me now that most if not all steels will exhibit this characteristic, just in (minor) varying degrees depending on steel, bevel angle, use, environment, etc. I've not noticed any deformation of the edge or wire edges/burrs.

I have noticed that the sharper the edge, the quciker it looses that initial sharpness. When I strop on boron, chro, and leather, that smooth shaving sharp edge doesn't last long. When I just finish w/ light strops on the 8K GS, the edge isn't as smooth, has some bite, and seems to keep that character longer than if I went to the loaded/leather strops.

I really, really like that fresh edge feeling, but I can live with an 85-90% edge most of the time. Bottom line for me is if I want that keen, fresh, edge, I just need to sharpen more often. Funny thing is, even at 75% my main J-knife is still way sharper than the German steel I was using pre-Japanese Steel Revelation.+1 on all counts except the 8k GS. Never tried one.

mpukas
04-20-2012, 07:13 PM
+1 on all counts except the 8k GS. Never tried one.

lol - the 1k, 4k, 8k GS + 500 beston is all I have ever used. Can't say I love the GS's, but they work fast and are super convenient. The 8k gums up quickly and needs babying.

looking to possibly add 10k & 12K SS soon, but for razors.

mpukas
04-20-2012, 07:13 PM
Thank you, Mpukas!

:thumbsup:

NO ChoP!
04-21-2012, 11:31 AM
+1 on the 8k gumming up quickly, especially when trying to achieve a nice polish. When used in the fashion mentioned, I think it excels though...

tk59
04-21-2012, 11:44 AM
+1 on the 8k gumming up quickly, especially when trying to achieve a nice polish. When used in the fashion mentioned, I think it excels though...Does it help to use lots of water?