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AFKitchenknivesguy
04-19-2012, 11:01 PM
I know we have a few gun enthusiasts on here, as knives and guns go hand in hand. I also know Kimbers are prestigious for many, what is your take on them? I've been drooling over a couple for awhile, and in a few months may pull the trigger. I am definetely a .45 guy, and I already have a Springfield Arms XDM .45 ACP. I heard the mags suck in Kimbers and they only give you one, so add two extra quality mags to the price. Other than that, the word is they are very solid/well made, shoot beautifully, and feel just right in the hand. What say you?

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-19-2012, 11:09 PM
BTW I was looking at the Crimson Carry II or the Raptor II.

stereo.pete
04-19-2012, 11:52 PM
I am strictly a Springfield Armory 1911 guy because their customer service is absolutely the best and their custom shop is damn near perfect as well. I have a Springfield Armory 1911 TRP that is an absolute tack driver.

Salty dog
04-19-2012, 11:53 PM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/sebcat/kimber1.jpg

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a442/Saltys_knives/dondiego3.jpg

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a442/Saltys_knives/kimber5.jpg

All for sale. PM me.

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-19-2012, 11:56 PM
I suppose just about every factory made gun uses MIM parts, but I've heard SA uses a lot. Much is made in house at Kimber. Don't get me wrong, SA is the s***, my XDM feels so right.

So why 1911? It's rich military history (I'm also considering a Colt, yes I know they were the first). This is why I own a submariner too. Well it's the quintisential divers watch too.

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-19-2012, 11:57 PM
Salty, I thought you stopped buying knives to purchase guns? QC issue?

Salty dog
04-20-2012, 12:01 AM
Legal defense fund.

I don't like Colt. Lifetime warranty that's used too much. I don't like my expensive gun at the shop for three months.

To be honest. If my life depended on it I wouldn't use any 1911.

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-20-2012, 12:04 AM
Understandable, before we hit the PM route, what do you have there?

Salty dog
04-20-2012, 12:13 AM
Super Carry Ultra 3 in. (24oz)
Raptor II
Eclipse Target II

Dave Martell
04-20-2012, 12:19 AM
First the shotgun thread driving me crazy and now a 1911 thread....damn you Jason!

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-20-2012, 12:19 AM
First the shotgun thread driving me crazy and now a 1911 thread....damn you Jason!

Sorry Dave, don't ban me!

Dave Martell
04-20-2012, 01:08 AM
I like these topics too much - that's the only problem here for me. :spin chair:

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-20-2012, 01:25 AM
Hey Dave, what are the general rules for guns in PA? It's been so long since i've lived there, and if I get stationed overseas next I might have to store my guns there.

Dave Martell
04-20-2012, 02:42 AM
Hey Dave, what are the general rules for guns in PA? It's been so long since i've lived there, and if I get stationed overseas next I might have to store my guns there.


Open Carry is OK (except in Philly)

CCW - PA is a "Shall Issue" state

No registration required but even private handgun sales have to go through an instant check system...which I believe is a database of sales made (or in other words - a database of who is selling and buying handguns in PA).

I don't know much else about PA gun law but I should read up on this stuff more as I intend to make some purchases as soon as I can. Yeah for me it's been put off for far too long and besides I miss shooting.

Taz575
04-20-2012, 04:50 AM
I will post up some pics when I get home. I am a 1911 Junky!!!! I built my own Caspian Recon full size with the help of a local gunsmith (JoJo's in CT) and have a VBOB from Dan Wesson. I had a CBOB, but my mom bought it because she liked it better than her Les Baer Commanche. Looking at selling a M&P Full Size and Compact, both in .40 and a Glock 19 (9mm) to fund a DW CCO purchase now. A properly built 1911 won't really jam up on you. Read Sweeneys books on the 1911 and the testing he has done with them in mud and stuff. I love the Dan Wesson 1911's!!!

I had a Kimber, shot some Colts, shot a Para Ord, shot my friends $3-4K race guns (Bianchi Cup guns). Springfield Loaded on up are decent for the money. Dan Wesson is a but more expensive, but much nicer. Better quality parts, tighter fit, smoother operating, etc. I wouldn't buy another Kimber; they are too sloppy for my tastes! Shoot a loose 1911 (Kimber, some colts, lower end Springfields, etc) and a tight one, like a Les Baer or Dan Wesson and you will feel the difference.

Salty dog
04-20-2012, 08:13 AM
I've heard good things about Dan Wesson. The things about Kimbers IMO is: They are gorgeous, nice triggers, fit and finish is perfect and they are extremely accurate.

They do demand that you keep them clean and they tend to like some ammo more than others.

Taz575
04-20-2012, 08:43 AM
Fit and Finish on the DW's is way above Kimbers as are their triggers. Most of the DW's have all tool steel parts, including forged frames and slides. They are solid, quality guns. Tight, lapped in, but very smooth. Their finishes are either steel or black coating. They don't used the painted on coatings which hide a lot of blems and take up the slop. I had a Kimber Pro Shadow years ago. Accurate, reliable, but something was off with it, just didn't feel right. It was a mass produced pistol where the tolerances are such that the parts drop in w/o much hand fitting. Once I shot a DW and Les Baer, I knew what I was missing. It's the precision of the gun. I'm trying to think of an analogy to the different grades of Japanese Kitchen Knives, but I'm kinda getting stuck :) The custom makers like Les Baer, Wilson, NightHawk, Ed Brown, etc are the top end. The DW's are the higher level of the factory gun along with the higher end Springfields. Kimber, Colt, Taurus, lower end SA's, Ruger, Remington, Rock Island all make decent/good 1911's, but they aren't at the top of their game normally. Maybe think the Tojiro DP series vs. a Konosuke vs a Custom knife made for you by the Smith. They all get the job done, but there are different levels of quality. Maybe the Kimber's are a bit above the DP's, but to give an idea.

Some pics :)
10 yds out with a modded/tuned SA WW2 GI Repro:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/smiley.jpg

CBOB (also belongs to my mom now):
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/Cbob3.jpg

I don't see many Kimbers this tight!!! :)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/CBOB4.jpg

CBOB's new grips:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/CBOB1.jpg

My mom's :bigeek: Les Baer:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/LBC2.jpg

Lone Rider Grips on 4 1911's:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/LoneRiderGrips.jpg

VBOB and CBOB:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/VBOB.jpg

And my baby! Caspian Recon Full Size, I just need to get it sent out for the Hard Hat finish to be done to it; it's similar to Glock's Tennifer:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/ReconBB3.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh102/Taz575/ReconBB.jpg

I did most of the work on the Recon. My local gunsmith did the trigger fitting, fit the safeties, checked my barrel fit (Kart EZ Fit), cut the feed ramp, etc. That way internally it's all spot on done by a professional, but all of the frame/slide/barrel fitting (except their massaging it in to full lock up), fitting the beavertail, etc are all done by me.

stereo.pete
04-20-2012, 10:20 AM
Springfield Armory TRP has no MIM parts if I remember correctly, all of the budget 1911's will use those parts since from a business standpoint it just makes sense. I've heard nothing but great things about Dan Wesson, I will have to take pictures of my custom 1911 frame w/ match grade .22!

From a self-defense standpoint, 9mm's scare me since the chances of them penetrating the target and going through walls and injuring/killing others is too high. Also, stopping power in a 9mm is weak compared to a .45 and of course with an all metal gun, pistol whipping is much more effective :razz: . Long story short, I hope I never am in a situation where the use of a firearm is needed (life or death) but if it does happen I would prefer my TRP at my side.

stereo.pete
04-20-2012, 10:26 AM
P.S. If this will be your first and money is no option (I wish), go with a http://www.heirloomprecision.com/ . Ted Yost owns that company and he is regarded as one of the legendary gunsmiths, whose work is very classy and perfect in every way. I would compare Ted's work to that of Shigefusa.

Chifunda
04-20-2012, 10:32 AM
I've owned four Kimbers, including one customized for me by Richard Heinie. My short answer: the only 1911s I actually carry are a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special that has been fully tuned and a Nighthawk Vickers Tactical.

As to magazines, I like Chip McCormick Power Mags and the seven round Wilson Combats.

IMHO, anyone considering carrying a 1911 should reflect on this from Larry Vickers addressing the question "How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?"

"That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock."

Larry spent twenty years in Army Special Operations, fifteen of them as an assaulter in 1st SFOD - Delta and was a combat marksmanship instructor for Delta Force. Had he not chosen the military as a career, he could have enjoyed great sucess as a standup comic. :)

Chifunda
04-20-2012, 10:34 AM
P.S. If this will be your first and money is no option (I wish), go with a http://www.heirloomprecision.com/ . Ted Yost owns that company and he is regarded as one of the legendary gunsmiths, whose work is very classy and perfect in every way. I would compare Ted's work to that of Shigefusa.
:plus1:

Ted Yost rocks!

Taz575
04-20-2012, 10:57 AM
Yeah, Yost's stuff is just awesome!! Super clean, I just don't know how else to describe it!

As far as the 9mm, 124+p Speer Gold Dots have a very good track record; I don't mind carrying a 9 or 40 as long as the ammo has a good history of performing. Most defensive carry rounds penetrate around the same distance within a couple inches; there is a difference in expanded diameter, but in most cases, shot placement, not caliber, was the determining factor in how the bullet worked. A hit in the arm with a 45 won't do as much damage as a center mass hit with a 9mm. If you can get good hit quickly with the 45, go for it! Summer carry is a Glock 26 with the 124 +p Gold Dots. Winter carry is the VBOB with 230gr Gold Dots.

The Springfield TRP is a good line of pistols. When I was asking my gunsmith about 1911's, they said the DW and SA TRP were the best bang for the buck for around $1500 and they couldn't do up something that nice for the same price. The Kimbers have more MIM to save cost. MIM isn't as much of an issue as people make it out to be, but if you are concerned about it, you will spend a good bit of money on non MIM parts/installation. Casual shooters may never have an issue, but serious shooters may break some MIM parts. My issue with MIM is that the tolerances are loose enough to fit the majority of their guns w/o fitting, so there is slop somewhere in the pistol. I'd rather have parts that are correctly fit to that gun rather than a "close enough" fit, which most of the 1911 manufacturers do. The Glock works well with this approach because it has been designed around it. I have a buddy who knows a guy who dumped over $3500 into a Kimber to get it working right. I hope that is exaggerated a bit because that is just plain dumb. For that much, you could have gotten a much higher quality firearm! Also, I prefer a series 70 to a series 80/********/FPS lever stuff. The TRP IIRC and the DW's are Series 70, no firing pin safety.

Chifunda
04-20-2012, 11:13 AM
My shorts and a tee shirt carry is a S&W 642-1 Airweight with a Crimson Trace laser sight and a sharkskin pocket holster by the late, great Lou Alessi.

And yeah, could someone please explain to me why the 1911 needs ANOTHER safety? :scratchhead:

Michael Rader
04-20-2012, 12:09 PM
Love my Kimber SIS and it has never jammed on the variety of ammo I've run through it. My stock mag is good, but Wilson combat mags are worth every penny. I like it more than my XD tactical as it sits lower in the hand and is more instinctive to shoot accurately while shooting fast. Funny thing is +P ammo sometimes makes the slide stick open, so I'd suggest running regular loads. Love the multiple safety features for "hot" carry in town.

Thanks for this - I was kinda missing the infamous shotgun thread :-)

~M

Chifunda
04-20-2012, 12:32 PM
This is why I own a submariner too. Well it's the quintisential divers watch too.

Missed this the first time through...yep, I'm a Rolex Submariner guy too. Bought mine in Anchorage, Alaska, in 1966. Cost me $210 full pop retail! (I still have the cancelled check.) :bigeek:

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-20-2012, 06:46 PM
Interesting take on Kimbers here, I really appreciate everyones opinion. Funny thing is, I also read lots of gun forums, especially on Kimbers lately. I knew going in they were the love it or hate it gun, and seems to be proven here. The gun community seems to be really brand loyal, even more so than here. I would love a Les Baer or Wilson Combat, just not ready to take that leap yet. Everyone that I personally know with a Kimber loves theirs, no issues. I also considered a Dan Wesson, but read just as much positive/negative responses on the gun forums as well. Gun users/collectors are an interesting bunch, I love reading the passionate threads.

AFKitchenknivesguy
04-20-2012, 06:46 PM
Missed this the first time through...yep, I'm a Rolex Submariner guy too. Bought mine in Anchorage, Alaska, in 1966. Cost me $210 full pop retail! (I still have the cancelled check.) :bigeek:

Sweet!! I would love to see a pic, I love vintage watches.

Duckfat
04-20-2012, 06:53 PM
Sorry Dave, don't ban me!

Is that a little riff on don't taze me bro? :justkidding:
The Kimber Ultra Carry II I had from the cusatom shop was one of the sweetest and most accurate I've had. I'm still kickin myself for selling it. While I'm also in the Sub-Mariner camp I paid a titch more for mine in the mid 90's. Compared to todays prices my receipt still looks like a bargain.

Dave

Still-edo
04-20-2012, 06:58 PM
Sweet!! I would love to see a pic, I love vintage watches.

+1

I don't get much chance to see neat watches anymore. My old job used to have my bumping elbows with really wealthy Taiwanese folks. Those guys have expensive watches.

Chifunda
04-20-2012, 07:17 PM
I'll take some snaps of the watch tomorrow when we have some daylight.

Anyone else having trouble posting pictures with Picasa? I tried today and got a really goofy URL for the photo and an "invalid" error message when I tried to post it on the site. :dontknow:

jmforge
04-20-2012, 10:09 PM
I guess that these things are all relative. Remember that when the government was looking for a new pistol and ended up buying the Beretta, that only other pistol that met the MTBS and other reliability standards where the Sig 226, which was deemed to be way too expensive and withdrawn and the old shot out WW2 vintage 1911A1's that they grabbed out of the arms room to use as the baseline for the tests. I am sure that the gunsmiths breathed a little new life into those old guns, but they were still old, used guns.:big grin: My dad has a shorty Kimber and loves it and he has been around the block with 1911's. He still has his old WW1 vintage 1911.....yep, a 1991, not an A1.. He hasn't shot the Kimber a whole lot, but he has had none of the problems that you sometimes hear about with those "officer model" size 1911's. I don't know who else is doing this, but Kimber was the first factory gun that I saw with an Ed Brown Bobtail style frame that you could get a a semi-reasonable price and that is a nice option.

Taz575
04-20-2012, 10:43 PM
In 2005/2006, Dan Wesson had the Classsic Commander Bobtail or CBOB out. Ed brown was the originator of the Bobtail. Kimber and a few others were way late to the game.

I had an issue with my CBOB slide stop not locking back, but I swapped out slide stops and the problem went away. They had a few bad batches get out of the slide stops. Most of the glitches on the DW's are minor and they stand behind their firearms. My VBOB has been 100% for me so far, over 500 rds through it, including some nasty dirty Wolf when I was trying to make it jam.

Kimbers are decent. They use a different type of recoil system than the normal 1911 in their small 1911's, which increases the time in which the slide cycles so it feeds properly. It's all about timing with the smaller pistols. The CBOB's were around $700 or so when they first came out and in 2009/2010, the price jumped when they upgraded their internal part quality and announced the CBOB would be replaced with the VBOB in 2010 except for California sales. I prefer the series 70, bushing barrel 1911 to the bull barrel 1911's with a firing pin safety system. At the price point, Kimber is usually around the top of the heap, but a couple hundred more can make a huge jump up in quality. $1300-$1400 can snag you a used Les Baer in great shape.

My Sa 1911 WW2 Gi Repro that I tuned up is loose (frame to slide fit), but it shoots awesomely because the barrel is well fit. 3 shots in 1 hole at 55' with it before I got the sights adjusted. Loose can still be accurate, but the accuracy will last longer when everything is tuned and fitted properly. Many smiths can do a Bobtail conversion on other 1911's, but you will need the frame refinish, even if it's to polish or bead blast a stainless frame.

Salty dog
04-21-2012, 04:20 AM
Bottom line, when my life depends on it I reach for my Sig P220. It has never failed. ( I mean, never) and it still throws those flying trach cans as accurately as anything.

Taz575
04-21-2012, 07:38 AM
I love the Sig single stacks! P239 in 40 and the 245 are some of my faves! Sig double stacks are too fat for my hands, but the single stacks are just right.

jmforge
04-22-2012, 10:37 AM
The 220 is an awesome pistol. My brother has one as his primarily home defense pistol. The gear nut in me would love to see one of the older .38 Super versions that they made for markets like Mexico where you can't have any military cartridge converted to 9x23 Winchester.
Bottom line, when my life depends on it I reach for my Sig P220. It has never failed. ( I mean, never) and it still throws those flying trach cans as accurately as anything.

jmforge
04-22-2012, 10:43 AM
I knew that Brown offered a bobtail kit that on it's face wasn't that expensive, but the cost of having it installed, etc. is another thing altogether. I asked my dad about his shorty Kimber and he said that it was actually one of the earlier custom shop models that he was able to get for a LOT less than MSRP from a shop in Tampa that was cleaning out its inventory before a move. It is interesting that Dan Wesson has done so well in the 1911 market, especially in light of the fact that they are now part of the CZ family. I was checking out some pics of their bobtails and I like the look. I am not a big fan off things like the "fish scale" or "gunner grip" checkering on metal and the DW's look a bit more traditional in that regard.
In 2005/2006, Dan Wesson had the Classsic Commander Bobtail or CBOB out. Ed brown was the originator of the Bobtail. Kimber and a few others were way late to the game.

I had an issue with my CBOB slide stop not locking back, but I swapped out slide stops and the problem went away. They had a few bad batches get out of the slide stops. Most of the glitches on the DW's are minor and they stand behind their firearms. My VBOB has been 100% for me so far, over 500 rds through it, including some nasty dirty Wolf when I was trying to make it jam.

Kimbers are decent. They use a different type of recoil system than the normal 1911 in their small 1911's, which increases the time in which the slide cycles so it feeds properly. It's all about timing with the smaller pistols. The CBOB's were around $700 or so when they first came out and in 2009/2010, the price jumped when they upgraded their internal part quality and announced the CBOB would be replaced with the VBOB in 2010 except for California sales. I prefer the series 70, bushing barrel 1911 to the bull barrel 1911's with a firing pin safety system. At the price point, Kimber is usually around the top of the heap, but a couple hundred more can make a huge jump up in quality. $1300-$1400 can snag you a used Les Baer in great shape.

My Sa 1911 WW2 Gi Repro that I tuned up is loose (frame to slide fit), but it shoots awesomely because the barrel is well fit. 3 shots in 1 hole at 55' with it before I got the sights adjusted. Loose can still be accurate, but the accuracy will last longer when everything is tuned and fitted properly. Many smiths can do a Bobtail conversion on other 1911's, but you will need the frame refinish, even if it's to polish or bead blast a stainless frame.

Taz575
04-22-2012, 12:06 PM
Yeah, the DW's are very nice, solid pistols w/o extra fancy stuff on them. Tight, lapped, fitted parts. No fancy snakeskin or golfball texturing, no french borders, mostly fixed sights, etc. Figures. I built up the Recon starting in early 2011 and a month after I started, they announced the full size railed version for 2012.

Yeah, the Brown Bobtail isn't too bad, but it's the refinishing/refitting that hurts.

Chifunda
04-23-2012, 10:04 AM
Changing internet providers and service has been interrupted...and will be again. Had wanted to post these quick shots of my old faithful Nighthawk/Vickers Tactical and finally had a chance today. As you can see, it's no safe queen. :) Haven't forgotten about the Submariner pics...will get them up in a separate thread as circumstances permit.

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p508/Chifunda/IMG_3181copy.jpghttp://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p508/Chifunda/IMG_3185copy.jpg

jmforge
04-27-2012, 07:37 PM
duplicate post

jmforge
04-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Call me crazy, but as much as I like some of the modern "ramp" fixed rear sights, I am still a sucker for a "melted" Bomar on a 1911.

Chifunda
04-28-2012, 12:35 PM
Can't disagree with you there. One of the guns near the very top of my "Never Should Have Sold It" list is a Hoag Master Grade with a low mounted Bomar rear sight. What was I thinking when I let that puppy get away?:curse: