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Vladimir
03-30-2011, 03:52 AM
Jon:
What is the difference between Suisin INOX Honyaki and Konosuke HD (Gyuto)
Which knife is better geometry, a thin, who would be better cut and longer stay sharper.
Yours sincerely

JBroida
03-30-2011, 04:05 AM
Vladimir-
I actually get this question a lot. The knives are very similar with regard to geometry and profile. Likewise the fit and finish on both is superb. The steel, however makes the difference. Figuring out which is the best fit for you depends a lot on your personal preferences.

First, the Suisin... When i first started using these knives, i didnt really understand the steel. It was only after i spent a significant amount of time at Suisin, sharpening a ton of knives, training with their craftsmen, talking to them about sharpening, and testing out their knives did i really get what makes this knife great. With the steel (19c27), the heat treatment, and the proper sharpening, this knife takes a great edge, has awesome toughness, and is easy to maintain. For me, learning the sharpening was key. This steel and heat treatment responds well to having a thin edge with a high angle microbevel (around 40-45 degrees). I only put the microbevel on one side (usually the right side because i am right handed). With this kind of sharpening, i get much more out of this knife. The toughness is greatly increased, making it a knife i dont feel like i have to baby. Fixing it is easy and the knife can be sharpened in just a couple of minutes on a high grit stone (6k+). I also happen to like the handles on this knife a lot... they are just the perfect size and shape for me.

For me, this new sharpening has made this knife stand out again from the many similar knives out there... including the tadatsuna. No other knife like this that i have tried responds quite the same way to this kind of sharpening.

Now, the Konosuke HD. I also really love this knife. What makes it special is that is sharpens as quickly and easily as carbon steel and takes a better edge than most stainless steel knives that i have ever tried (much closer to carbon than stainless). It also has increased toughness when compared to carbon equivalents (such as the white #2). I like to think of it as a stainless carbon blade. It pretty much takes the best of carbon and blends it with the best of stainless.

The Konosuke takes a better edge than the suisin, but the suisin holds an edge longer and has better toughness. The Konosuke is easier to sharpen, but touching up the Suisin is quicker. Picking which one is right for you is mostly just a matter of personal preference. They are both great knives.

Hope this helps.

-Jon

Vladimir
03-30-2011, 04:52 AM
Thank you-Jon!

JBroida
03-30-2011, 04:55 AM
please let me know if you have any other questions

Vladimir
03-30-2011, 05:04 AM
Ok :)

Monchoon
03-30-2011, 07:58 AM
So if you use the same techniques to sharpen the Tadatsuna as the Suisin is the Tad then inferiour

JBroida
03-30-2011, 12:17 PM
So if you use the same techniques to sharpen the Tadatsuna as the Suisin is the Tad then inferiour

That as been my experience. The ginsanko does not act in the same way. Its not a huge difference, but after a lot of testing i noticed it (as did the two other people i was testing with...in fact they were the ones to point it out to me). We were using the knife in a professional setting at a fugu restaurant.

Citizen Snips
04-07-2011, 11:38 AM
another thing i dont think was considered here was the profile. although ive not used the suisin or tad, the pictures kinda look like the konosuke and tad are closer while the suisin is a bit more narrow. that can be good or bad depending on what vladimir is looking for.

mhlee
04-07-2011, 02:47 PM
I didn't know that Suisin used Sandvik 19c27 steel in their knives. Lots of other makers use 19c27 but, based on the comments of users, the Suisin knives are superior to most other 19c27 knives.

Interesting stuff.

bechler
03-04-2013, 04:50 PM
So what accounts for the price gap?

Melampus
03-04-2013, 08:07 PM
...The Konosuke takes a better edge than the suisin, but the suisin holds an edge longer and has better toughness...
I have a few of the original HD blades, and a few of the new alloy. I find Kosuke really improved upon the edge retention disparity with his second blend, and my Konosuke edge outlasts my Suisin Honyaki now... all things being equal.. as equal as anything can be.

JBroida
03-04-2013, 08:10 PM
having tried both, i'm not sure i agree

Miles
03-12-2013, 03:32 AM
Jon, have you ever tried the same sharpening approach with the HD? I intuitively added a microbevel to my Suisin IH some time ago and found that I really like the performance and ability to very quickly touch it up and keep going.

JBroida
03-12-2013, 03:42 AM
Yes, but the technique doesn't work quite the same on the HD

Miles
03-12-2013, 03:44 AM
How so?

Zwiefel
03-13-2013, 01:40 AM
Fantastic comments/observations Jon...this forum is unquestionably richer for your presence and passion.

JBroida
03-13-2013, 02:09 AM
The heat treatment on the Suisin lends itself towards the microlevel technique. It's geared towards toughness. The HD is geared towards a much finer edge, so it doesn't work the same way with regard to looking for toughness. The microlevel does actually increase the toughness of the HD, but not in the same way that it increases toughness and edge retention on the suisin, while still maintaining the same kind of bite and edge feeling. At the end of the day it's just a function of the heat treatment.

Also, sorry for all the short responses and messed up typing. Everything on this form has been typed on my cell phone for the last few weeks since I been so busy at work.

Miles
03-14-2013, 01:56 AM
Thanks for the explanation, Jon. I am curious though, iirc, aren't both the HD and the IH hardened to similar levels?
I know there's a lot more to a heat treat than the final number. How does one go about bringing out different attributes in a steel during the heat treat process? This is something I've often wondered about. I really need to look into in order to better understand it.

mark76
03-14-2013, 09:07 AM
I read here that both blades have very similar profiles. I interpret that as same thickness at the spine, thickness just above the edge and tapering towards the point. However, when I read the specs, it seems as if the Suisin is a bit thinner. Is that true?

Miles
03-14-2013, 01:35 PM
Jon, how does the heat treat on the Ginga line compare with the Suisin and HD?

JBroida
03-15-2013, 01:27 PM
@miles The suisin is just a bit harder than the HD... but that just tells a small part of the story. With regards to the specifics of the HT, i'm not sure thats something i can talk about... sorry. As far as a comparison to the gesshin ginga, this has been my experience...
Suisin has better edge retention and toughness than HD and Gesshin Ginga
Gesshin Ginga has better edge retention and toughness than HD (but not suisin), but also sharpens more easily and takes a finer edge than the Suisin (but not the HD)
The HD is easier to sharpen than both and takes a very slightly better edge, but looses out in toughness and edge retention

Miles
03-20-2013, 03:58 AM
Wasn't looking for you to spill any trade secrets, Jon. Wouldn't expect it and wouldn't ask. LOL I guess my question was more of a general one about different stages in the heat treat process. No worries.
Sounds like the Gingas are a really good line. In your experience, do you have any inside tips on how to coax the best performance out of the Gingas?

TheDispossessed
03-24-2013, 12:12 AM
don't let anyone touch them, that's my secret

JBroida
03-24-2013, 12:38 AM
Nothing out of the normal

Amused
09-20-2013, 09:57 PM
Hey Jon,

How does the Suisin IH compare against current stainless/semi-stainless gyutos? Do you still rate it highly in its price bracket?

Thanks.