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Angus'Beef
04-21-2012, 03:29 AM
Hello Kitchen Knife Forums! While searching for information I found you guys. Browsed the forums, saw some good posts, & decided to join. I'm no professional, but I do have an interest in fine cutlery and enjoy cooking at home for myself & the family. ;)

Lately I have considered buying a custom personal knife. I found a Damascus chef's knife, but it is sold with a 'blunt' edge (no sharp edge). The materials used are 1085 & 15N20. The amount of layering is 'more than 200.' HRC is 48 to 50. Blade length is 25.5 cm. Full Tang. How much could taking a blunt knife to a professional for sharpening cost?

Nice to meet you all & thanks in advance!

macmiddlebrooks
04-21-2012, 03:37 AM
Welcome!

Crothcipt
04-21-2012, 03:56 AM
welcome. Is it a Kitchen knife or some other one?

MadMel
04-21-2012, 04:02 AM
Welcome!!

Peco
04-21-2012, 04:05 AM
Welcome :D

Angus'Beef
04-21-2012, 04:15 AM
It has the profile of a chef knife with no sort of bolster that meets the cutting edge.

Yeah, you could call it a kitchen knife.

The hekler
04-21-2012, 04:18 AM
That hrc sounds awfully low, should be about 10 pts higher or so. There's some great custom makers that are members here might want to talk to them.

Angus'Beef
04-21-2012, 04:29 AM
Your right about that, 48-50 is low. With proper care I think I could maintain it's edge. To me, the knife's design is unique among other customs I have seen. There is a sashimi knife with a HRC of 60 I'm looking at also...

Crothcipt
04-21-2012, 04:31 AM
The reason I ask is it sounds like what is in this thread

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5250-Bowie-vs-Chef?p=84367&viewfull=1#post84367

I hope it's not.

Angus'Beef
04-21-2012, 04:43 AM
No, not that... Zombie Killer :rofl2:

Johnny.B.Good
04-21-2012, 09:03 AM
Welcome Angus.

Here's the second half of the "Zombie knife" story:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5450-Zombie-Buschef-Knife

Long story short, even in the hands of a creative professional, the knife cannot be made into anything useful (for the kitchen at least). So yes, you could buy a soft dull knife on the cheap and send it to a professional here, but there can be no guarantees as to the result.

What you are describing sounds off to me, and I would proceed with caution before spending any money on it. Post a picture of it here with the full description and price and see what the experts have to say.

I would advise you to contact Jon at Japanese Knife Imports (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/), a well respected vendor and expert here (who happens to be located in Southern CA too). He will steer you in the right direction (even if it's not to one of the knives he sells).

Good luck!

Eamon Burke
04-21-2012, 09:49 AM
If you are buying off the shelf, you should talk about technical specs.

If you are buying custom, you should talk about the individual.


Welcome to KKF!

ajhuff
04-21-2012, 09:52 AM
I think it's a question more of will it work versus will it work well. Will it work, yes. Thinking about it, chef knives were probably that soft for 100 years or more. One day I would like to commission a pearlitic Damascus blade which would be softer than that, strictly because that's what the original Damascus blades of yore were.

Now will it work well? No. And the advise to get a quality steel blade is very sound. But it sounds like you might be it a situation where you don't care, you just want that knife. Kind of like how I feel about a pearlitic Damascus knife. If that's the case, get it, send it out for an edge and be prepared to back it up with a work horse. If it it a design that you really like, maybe you could have that design copied by a custom maker with their optimum flavor of steel for kitchen knives. Or just try something knew from one of the custom makers or off the shelf from JKI, CKTG, JCK, Kikuichi-monji, BlueWay, etc.

As long as you know what you are getting, and have realistic expectations, you can't really go wrong.

-AJ

tk59
04-21-2012, 10:32 AM
Any edge you put on a blade that soft is probably going to need constant upkeep. You will need to be careful to limit contact with anything hard (plates, bones, cutting boards, etc) and you will need a honing rod of some kind for frequent realignment of your edge. Sending your knife out for professional sharpening will vary depending on the sort of treatment you want and the state of the "edge." If you want to belt sharpening, that would cost you shipping plus a few bucks or if you do it locally, just a few bucks. The trick is to get someone who knows how to do it well. There are plenty people out there that will mangle your knife in no time flat.

Deckhand
04-21-2012, 10:59 AM
Welcome!
The HRC is to low. Why not talk with Jon. He is very helpful. He won't up sell you and he will give you good advice. He has a section on the forum and a web site here. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/
Even better go to his shop to look at knives and talk to him.

Dave Martell
04-21-2012, 02:07 PM
Welcome Angus!

That blade doesn't sound so good to me. I think you should run - not walk - from that one. :)

SpikeC
04-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Welcome to the Knut House!
I disagree with the thought that that knife could be made useable, unless you only plan on cutting Brie with it!

Crothcipt
04-21-2012, 07:24 PM
Ty Johnny I was gonna post that but I just happen to see the time. Having to work on Sat. you have to go to bed.

obtuse
04-21-2012, 07:29 PM
48 - 50 is not suitable for kitcheb knives... it might be better for a machete.

SpikeC
04-21-2012, 07:34 PM
Or a brie knife!

Eamon Burke
04-21-2012, 10:51 PM
48 - 50 is not suitable for kitcheb knives... it might be better for a machete.

I wouldn't even want a machete below 58.

Angus'Beef
04-22-2012, 12:05 AM
Here's the second half of the "Zombie knife" story:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5450-Zombie-Buschef-Knife
Haha damascus boomerang. That's high class.


What you are describing sounds off to me, and I would proceed with caution before spending any money on it. Post a picture of it here with the full description and price and see what the experts have to say.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4439/30848645.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3091/83418967.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/976/71490973.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8527/31850131.jpg
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/939/33357072.jpg

ITEM SPECIFICATIONS
Type: Chef Knife
Material Used: 1085 & 15N20
Damascus Pattern: Bird Eye (Ring Pattern)
Layers: More than 200
Hardness: HRC 48 to 50
Blade Tempered: Yes
Made in INDIA

KNIFE DETAILS
OVERALL LENGTH: 23.3 cm Approx.
BLADE LENGTH: 23.3 cm Approx. (Full Tang)
HANDLE LENGTH: 9.2 cm Approx.
BLADE THICKNESS: 4 mm Approx.
BLADE WIDTH: 3 cm Approx.
SHEATH: NO SHEATH
EDGE: NO SHARP EDGE (BLUNT)
HANDLE MATERIAL Natural Abalone Shell Pieces

SPECIAL FEATURE
Beautiful Damascus Markings
Tempered Blade
Handcut Natural Abalone Shell Pieces' Handle
:puke:BLADE THICKNESS: 4 mm Approx. :puke:Hardness: HRC 48 to 50 :puke:EDGE: NO SHARP EDGE (BLUNT)

When I first found this knife for sale in eBay it was $25, now its $86. I was thinking I could give it a shot as a utility knife for light tasks, despite some negative factors. But nearly $100 for a soft & blunt knife, idk... Sure is perty though.:O

stereo.pete
04-22-2012, 12:09 AM
Just say no!!!! :cop:

obtuse
04-22-2012, 12:10 AM
No way... stay clear of that knife

Johnny.B.Good
04-22-2012, 12:26 AM
Sorry Angus.

If you like damascus steel and wild handles (abalone for example), check out the work of Mr. Itou on the Japanese Chef's knife website:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/Page3.html

Before you pull the trigger on anything, I would definitely go check out Japanese Knife Imports in Venice.

Angus'Beef
04-22-2012, 12:29 AM
I think you should run - not walk - from that one. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ7NVjZ-Eyg

I wanted a cheap/first damascus. Whoever jacked it up to $86 saved my ass. Oh and, you guys did too.:laugh:

Angus'Beef
04-22-2012, 01:04 AM
Sorry Angus.

If you like damascus steel and wild handles (abalone for example), check out the work of Mr. Itou on the Japanese Chef's knife website:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/Page3.html

Before you pull the trigger on anything, I would definitely go check out Japanese Knife Imports in Venice.
TY for the recommendation. Looked at these guys earlier today. Very kewl stuff- I mean who can say they grip their knife with a Mammoth Molar Tooth? In all seriousness, a wild handle isn't necessary. Although damascus is.

If we are talking about that kind of cash... I won't have $400 readily available for a while. But what do you think about the KD30L Petty - 150mm (http://japanesechefsknife.com/KDSeries.html). Iím kind of in the market for a mid-sized utility knife. The dimensions, specifications, and Hattori's reputation have me interested. Iím definitely open to suggestions of other makers/models.

Normally I don't jump into something expensive and professional without experience. This would be my first damascus...

Johnny.B.Good
04-22-2012, 01:15 AM
If we are talking about that kind of cash... I won't have $400 readily available for a while. But what do you think about the KD30L Petty - 150mm (http://japanesechefsknife.com/KDSeries.html). I’m kind of in the market for a mid-sized utility knife.

I like it, but unfortunately so does pretty much everyone else! Hattori KD series knives are sought after collectors items. I'm afraid there is little chance you will ever see one listed "in stock" at Japanese Chef's Knife, as there is a long line of customers waiting for one and few (if any) are currently being produced.

Taz575
04-22-2012, 05:20 AM
Way too thick and way too soft!! The handle looks kinda funny, like they just glued Abalone pieces onto another handle or something. Abalone is EXPENSIVE stuff, something isn't right to get Damascus and Abalone for that little money.

I have played with/handed a couple 6" chefs knives and they are OK, but usually the knuckle clearance isn't there for board work. In a pinch it works for cutting up small amounts of something, but I would look at a 210mm gyuto, it will be much more versatile. Some 6" have more knuckle clearance, but it will lack the cutting edge to handle bigger items.

Deckhand
04-22-2012, 11:28 AM
TY for the recommendation. Looked at these guys earlier today. Very kewl stuff- I mean who can say they grip their knife with a Mammoth Molar Tooth? In all seriousness, a wild handle isn't necessary. Although damascus is.

If we are talking about that kind of cash... I won't have $400 readily available for a while. But what do you think about the KD30L Petty - 150mm (http://japanesechefsknife.com/KDSeries.html). I’m kind of in the market for a mid-sized utility knife. The dimensions, specifications, and Hattori's reputation have me interested. I’m definitely open to suggestions of other makers/models.

Normally I don't jump into something expensive and professional without experience. This would be my first damascus...

Hattori KD knives are holy grail knives. I and many others here have been on Koki's list there for one and will probably never get one. You have good taste. I currently have a Pierre Rodrigue 270mm gyuto being made and will probably order a sujihiki from him soon. I am sure I will be pleased. For Damascus Randy at HHH knives and Devin Thomas both make some amazing knives. Pierre has also made some. There are other good makers as well. Spend time looking at threads here. Lots of amazing work.

Angus'Beef
05-02-2012, 06:00 PM
Yoshihiro Gyoto (210mm) & Petty (135mm). Hammered damascus, VG-10, HRC of 59, Oak handles. Really liking the Japanese blades & western handles. A much better choice for first pieces of damascus wouldn't you say?

Two different exposures:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4771/0266t.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7888/0269lg.jpg

Together:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7186/0280z.jpg

Gyoto spine:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6960/0289b.jpg

Petty spine:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6219/0290mt.jpg

Something extra I'd like to share: Victorinox Bladesafe ($5 @ eBay)
01 (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4795/0292rz.jpg), 02 (http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5790/0293l.jpg), 03 (http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8756/0294.jpg), 04 (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5052/0295b.jpg), 05 (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3337/0296v.jpg)

From what I've gathered, these Yoshihiro knifes & materials are more forgiving in accidents/misuse and easier to sharpen; But only time will tell. Comments? Criticism?

TB_London
05-02-2012, 06:13 PM
Looks like you got yourself a nice set. Congrats

Crothcipt
05-02-2012, 06:19 PM
I'm glad you got something that you would be happy with. I am extremely happy I could stop you from getting a similar problem to what I had.

slowtyper
05-03-2012, 01:36 AM
That crazy green handled knife...I thought I saw that in a Montreal knife shop...looks so familiar. However they were selling knives at a ridiculously high price...I can't remember but I remember looking at it and thinking ***....

Hope you enjoy your knives. Personally I don't really like those ones that much. If Damascus was a priority, I would go with tanaka.

sachem allison
05-03-2012, 02:23 AM
Haha damascus boomerang. That's high class.



:puke:BLADE THICKNESS: 4 mm Approx. :puke:Hardness: HRC 48 to 50 :puke:EDGE: NO SHARP EDGE (BLUNT)

When I first found this knife for sale in eBay it was $25, now its $86. I was thinking I could give it a shot as a utility knife for light tasks, despite some negative factors. But nearly $100 for a soft & blunt knife, idk... Sure is perty though.:O

made in pakistan oddly enough by the same guys that made the zombie killer. Most of these are being sold as British made knives on ebay by guys like Rockblade and a few other unscrupulous idiots.

Andrew H
05-04-2012, 09:59 PM
Yoshihiro Gyoto (210mm) & Petty (135mm). Hammered damascus, VG-10, HRC of 59, Oak handles. Really liking the Japanese blades & western handles. A much better choice for first pieces of damascus wouldn't you say?

Two different exposures:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4771/0266t.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7888/0269lg.jpg

Together:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7186/0280z.jpg

Gyoto spine:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6960/0289b.jpg

Petty spine:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6219/0290mt.jpg

Something extra I'd like to share: Victorinox Bladesafe ($5 @ eBay)
01 (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4795/0292rz.jpg), 02 (http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5790/0293l.jpg), 03 (http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8756/0294.jpg), 04 (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5052/0295b.jpg), 05 (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3337/0296v.jpg)

From what I've gathered, these Yoshihiro knifes & materials are more forgiving in accidents/misuse and easier to sharpen; But only time will tell. Comments? Criticism?

Congratulations. You got a much better set than you were planning on getting.

tk59
05-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Nice set. I'm sure they will perform very well for you. :)

Johnny.B.Good
05-04-2012, 11:46 PM
Congratulations Angus.

I think you are headed in a good direction...

Let us know what you think after you have had a chance to use them for a bit.

Eamon Burke
05-05-2012, 01:18 AM
I've always liked those, whether they are sold as Yoshihiro, Togiharu, or whatever. They are pretty and thin, and the steel is hard enough. The santoku one was almost my first Japanese knife purchase.

Congrats!

Vertigo
05-06-2012, 08:17 AM
Oak handles
Wait what?

:eyebrow: