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View Full Version : New profile, 240 mm Carbon Gyuto



PierreRodrigue
04-27-2012, 10:51 PM
This is a new steel I am trying, it is a high carbon steel, at HRC 64.5, Transitional grind. Convex lower, and slight hollow upper blade.

It has a G10 ferrule, stainless and mammoth tooth spacer

African black wood handle, wood from Mark at Burl Source. This stuff polishes up like glass!

Keep in mind, this is pre sharpening and pre glue up.

Thanks for looking, and comments welcome!

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obtuse
04-27-2012, 10:55 PM
Thats amazing. Very well put together. I love the mammoth tooth spacer. The profile looks great. I would be very happy to usevthat knife.

Pensacola Tiger
04-27-2012, 10:56 PM
That looks like a good match for my suji, send it down here so I can make sure!

Good looking knife, is the profile inspired by the Masamoto KS?

obtuse
04-27-2012, 10:57 PM
Is the carbon steel a tool steel or something more along the lines of hitachi white ?

Andrew H
04-27-2012, 10:58 PM
That looks like a good match for my suji, send it down here so I can make sure!

Good looking knife, is the profile inspired by the Masamoto KS?

Very slick, Pierre. The mammoth tooth livens up the handle. The profile does look very KS like to me.

PierreRodrigue
04-27-2012, 11:07 PM
Salty is the inspiration, design, and motivation behind this one. I have been chatting back and forth on this on for a while.

The steel is a particle metallurgy steel. Very abrasion resistant.

kalaeb
04-27-2012, 11:08 PM
Cool. I'll take it. :D

obtuse
04-27-2012, 11:18 PM
Whats the height at the heel?

Deckhand
04-27-2012, 11:35 PM
Wow! Really great looking!!

sachem allison
04-28-2012, 12:04 AM
Beautiful, as always Pierre.

Eamon Burke
04-28-2012, 12:38 AM
Love what you did with the material on the Ferrule. Those kinds of small adjustments really make a knife pop.

Whoever ends up with this knife, I expect in depth sharing of this grind!
:bat:

add
04-28-2012, 12:59 AM
That, appears to be a very special knife...

Johnny.B.Good
04-28-2012, 01:10 AM
Good looking Pierre.

WildBoar
04-28-2012, 09:23 AM
Wow, that ain't ugly! she got a sister?

Salty dog
04-28-2012, 10:22 AM
Nice! Transitions look great. Beautiful handle!

tk59
04-28-2012, 10:47 AM
It's hard to tell if it's just the pic but you've managed to make the Salty flat tip look very nice. I can't wait to hear about its performance. Is it stainless?

PierreRodrigue
04-28-2012, 10:53 AM
No, it is a new carbon I'm trying, particle steel, at HRC 64.5

Thanks for the great comments you guys! I appreciate it!

stevenStefano
04-28-2012, 06:20 PM
Profile is interesting. Looks a little like a KS but is taller which is a good thing in my opinion

Lefty
04-28-2012, 06:49 PM
Great knife, Pierre! It looks as close to perfect as I've seen. It's good to see a Salty knife come to fruition.

Salty dog
04-28-2012, 07:26 PM
I refer to the profile as "tactics" and the grind and geometry as "logistics". All good Generals know logistics wins wars.

heirkb
04-28-2012, 11:07 PM
Looks really cool Pierre. Very similar to the profile that I've got drawn out for a custom I'm getting.

PierreRodrigue
04-28-2012, 11:08 PM
Whats the height at the heel?
Sorry! Missed this post!

Height at the heel is 51 mm. Cutting edge is 247 mm. Spine is 2 mm, full distal taper. If you pinch the blade lightly with thumb and index finger, and run them from spine to edge, you can feel the fall and rise in the transition grind. This blade steel is to date, the the hardest hardened steel I have worked. The finish is never going to be mirror, or anything close!

Eamon Burke
04-29-2012, 12:14 AM
I refer to the profile as "tactics" and the grind and geometry as "logistics". All good Generals know logistics wins wars.

You gotta admit though, when it isn't wartime, and you're just doing a little police action, and resources are ample, great tactics sure make life pretty good.

Salty dog
04-29-2012, 12:35 AM
Tactics are sexy.

Mike Davis
04-29-2012, 08:38 PM
Pierre, that is one very good looking knife, and from what i can see of the geometry, should be a damn good cutter.

EdipisReks
04-29-2012, 10:14 PM
that looks great!

RRLOVER
05-11-2012, 09:46 PM
Is this baby done???? Is it out being tested??

PierreRodrigue
05-11-2012, 10:10 PM
Not quite! Its pissin' me off! Trying to get a better finish, but its so bloody hard and abrasion resistant!

Lucretia
05-12-2012, 01:05 AM
Great looking knife!

Salty dog
05-12-2012, 02:19 AM
I was starting to wonder.

obtuse
05-12-2012, 03:08 AM
Not quite! Its pissin' me off! Trying to get a better finish, but its so bloody hard and abrasion resistant!

Ouch!

PierreRodrigue
07-03-2012, 10:24 PM
I thought I would follow up and offer some of Salty's comments on the knife and steel. After near a month with him, this is what he had to offer as far as feedback. I'm not sure if I mentioned, but the profile was from a sketch Salty sent me. I like it!

I want to say thank you for beating on this for a while Salty, I appreciate it.

Re: How did it do?

The blade: It could use more heft IMO. It's laserish. It could be thicker starting at the spine and eventually coming to a thin edge. With that being said I think the distal taper could be more pronounced. The knife wants to flex to close to the middle of the blade. If there's going to be flex I feel it should be slight or near the tip.

I like the profile. The height at the heel is good for most folks. A little narrower near the tip perhaps. Which would lengthen the transition also.

The Grind: You seem to have a pretty good grasp of the spine to edge grind. With a little more steel to work with it could be a little more pronounced. The weight of the blade will be a little heavier but the weight will be distributed properly and won't feel like it. The balance point will move forward a little but not a big deal. The grind? Is the hollow top worth the effort?
Yes and no. I understand that's a PITA but.........and it's not absolutely necessary. It's about weight and distribution. When people say "If feels good in the hand" they don't realize it but they're probably talking about weight distribution.

The steel: I gave it my usual progression and time. It's hard stuff. It got plenty sharp but not as sharp as some. If I gave it more time and effort it may get sharper but for most folks that was plenty sharp. It almost feels glassy on the stones and it's pretty obvious it's not losing much steel.

Once sharp, it will hold that fresh edge a little longer than most but what I found cool about it was it touched up very nice. Once plateaued the remaining edge was more than sufficient and held up very well.
I did notice that I got some micro chips in the transition area leading to the tip. As mentioned before this area takes a pounding. The chips make have resulted from debris on the board or pivoting while rock chopping. Not unlike the Hattori KDs. I was able to sharpen them out without much trouble. That's how small they were considering how hard the steel is.


Profile: I like it. Once you add steel to the blade you might be able to support a slightly narrower tip. Slightly.


Salty mentioned that a good starting point for spine thickness might be 3 mm, this one is thinner at 2.4 mm. I know no one has yet tried it but Salty, but what are your thoughts on thickness?

Also, at 64.5 HRC, would this be outside the realm for you guys? I wouldn't use this steel alot, but to have it available for use, yes.

Look forward to comments!

Pierre

eshua
07-03-2012, 10:53 PM
I hesitate to gripe about flex because I feel as though it reflects more on my unnecessary torquing of a knife than its short comings... but +1 to more knives flexing further towards the tip.

As to how much heft you want...depends if your selling it to someone wanting to rough it up though busy shifts, or someone who wants pure effortless cuts but isn't in the weeds enough to twist and bang on it like a mad man.

Either way, the knives of yours I've seen in person make me jelly. Someday I'd like to give one a try. :)

Crothcipt
07-04-2012, 12:26 AM
My Tanaka santoku is 65 hrc. It is also san-mai (sp?) blade, I like the hardness and find I am wanting a little more on my knives.

I agree with eshua about the heft. I think its like looking at a woman, you want to be with the sexy one until you get to know her. Then the semi good looking one you get to know her and want to spend more time with. Its a gut reaction, but one that I don't always seem to want around all the time.

But he does make some great comments on what you as a builder want to hear for feed back. I learned quite a bit. Ty for posting.

RRLOVER
07-04-2012, 12:43 AM
D AMN!!!! I wish I was in any shape to drive up to see Salty and that blade:cry:

PierreRodrigue
07-04-2012, 01:03 AM
If you want to see it, that is easily arranged.

obtuse
07-04-2012, 02:11 AM
If it's anything like cpm m4 I bet it would be a fun steel to use.

VoodooMajik
07-04-2012, 06:31 AM
I'm not sure if I have the gear to maintain anything in the 64 HRC range as an average user.. I would love to give it the works, but a blade for the more skilled and experienced. I've only got a fork from Pierre right now, but I'm jealous of many of the knives I see and hope to make more investments in the future.

Andrew H
07-04-2012, 10:01 AM
I think 64+ is too high. I would order something in the 61-62 range.

PierreRodrigue
07-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys, anyone else, please weigh in. At 64+ i realize this is much harder than what most have tried, and likely would consider trying. This steel as I mentioned is not going to be a replacement for anything I am using, but is something I would use if asked. Trust me when I say, it is easier to sharpen it then to finish it!

The review from Salty is quite valuable. I didn't clean it up much, as I beleive it is a great learning tool for myself and others. As a knifemaker, I rarely get objective feedback, as with most things, if you order something your way and you get it, your happy. With this knife, Salty provided the profile and a couple other suggestions, and was willing to play with it and offer feedback with no bias to it. I think its easier to pick it apart, if you didn't pay for it!


Any other comments appreciated.

Pierre

Lefty
07-04-2012, 10:39 AM
I love the look of the knife and profile of the blade. The taper "issue" is one that I feel you'd have to experience firsthand, so I can't comment on it.

Now, would I buy a knife that is hardened to 64.5? Yes, I would.
Would I notice an advantage either at home or the hall, where I put my knives through the biggest pounding? Maybe.
Would I request it? No, not in my situation. However, if I were a line cook/chef at a restaurant, I'd definitely consider it.

With that being said, I'm more interested in performance and ease of use. It seems to me that Salty was impressed with your grinding abilities and skills as a maker. To me, that's huge.

The steel both has me intrigued and makes me yearn for classic, old-school steel that gets wicked sharp, patinates like an SOB and just has that charm about it. I might be one of the most confusing guys out there in regards to steel preference. I love learning about new super steels, and I love my S35VN that you made for me in the same way I love my 1084 Mike Davis made, and my white 1 by Murray.

Chasing the newest, greatest steel can be quite a ride, and often it pays off. However, there's something to be said for a proven winner. Since we allhave different tastes, and it seems as though you did a great job with the steel, I'd say keep it as an option.

Personally, I'd likely choose O1 or W2 at 60 and love the hell out of it, while a guy like OD would likely go with "SuperBetaW5", in hopes of having the "perfect" steel.

Regardless, I appreciate your being so candid and letting us in on a knife we were (and still are) all captivated by.

mdoublestack
07-04-2012, 02:51 PM
I have used a stainless bladek hardened to HRC 64.5 years ago - an Akifusa Gyuto - and even being a lesser sharpener back then, and stainless, it wasn't too tedious on the stones. It didn't feel great on the stones, like i presume your carbon would, but it was ok. And I agree with a lot of others, the comfort allure and performance of most knives should be in their blade profile, geometry and grind. With that said, extreme HRC would be welcomed by people like me, working the line every day.