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View Full Version : The elusive Shigefusa cloud, finally starting to get it



schanop
05-01-2012, 02:35 AM
First lest start with Maksims' awesome polishing work on a muki. It's the could, no doubt.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u-UMYB5ImqQ/TjE246Z1H9I/AAAAAAAALpo/sSN9x1Nb5Nc/s900/IMGP7117.JPG

And next, from Yamashita san's polish on a yanagi.

http://www.japan-tool.com/hamono/Knife_Polishing/Polish16.jpg

I've been wondering if I can get one since the first shigefusa arrived at the door. It finally starts to show on my higashigata usuba, just mainly around the lamination line at the moment and some faint line on the bevel. At least, I think I'm on a journey there. Require more practising:
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4005/cloudg.jpg

bieniek
05-01-2012, 06:10 AM
Such a great photos! And great job.

Could you show photo of whole knife? The usuba

Thanks

Dusty
05-01-2012, 07:26 AM
What stone line-up are you using?

maxim
05-01-2012, 07:30 AM
I found that harder Jnats reviles that cloud more clearer.

Seth
05-01-2012, 10:20 AM
Cloudy here in America on kasumi gyuto. I have experimented with soft and hard j-nat and I believe Maxim is correct; more figure with harder j-nat but the stones have be prepared very carefully if you are using finger stones.

maxim
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
No clouds in Denmark today, Finally :jumpy:

But planty on my Shigefusas :surrendar:

Suji Kasumi

6645

6646

6647

Yangi Kasumi
6648

Santoku KU

6649

Muki Kasumi

6650

Seth
05-01-2012, 11:31 AM
Secret damascus only available to forum members. The gyuto is remarkable....are you sure this is really kasumi ;)

Halicon
05-01-2012, 12:42 PM
Nice job. The "line" you want to bring out is the forge welding line. Keep practicing and you'll reach it.

Ucmd
05-01-2012, 01:03 PM
The elusive Shig.....How the heck does one go about purchasing one. Any fourm members got suggestions.....Would love to have one.

Peco
05-01-2012, 01:14 PM
The elusive Shig.....How the heck does one go about purchasing one. Any fourm members got suggestions.....Would love to have one.

I might be able to get you one. PM me if interested ...

heirkb
05-01-2012, 01:17 PM
The elusive Shig.....How the heck does one go about purchasing one. Any fourm members got suggestions.....Would love to have one.

Maybe ask Maksim.

Seth
05-01-2012, 02:15 PM
What are you looking for?

TB_London
05-01-2012, 02:22 PM
There a few places in Europe that have them in stock

schanop
05-01-2012, 04:34 PM
Thank you maksim for the tip and awesome results on other knives too. I've run into that hint myself that hint after using ohira suita lv3.5 ;-) But it will take me a while before getting an even polish on that stone.

@bieniek, promise will take a full short, not just head and shoulder for the next polish, and let's see how much more sCloud I can bring out. It is in use now and has some smudge. May be I should just go ahead and take a picture when the light is right.

bieniek
05-01-2012, 04:38 PM
Yes please, I just never seen that knife from shig and a photo would be sweet :)
What is the magic trick? :knife:

Seth
05-01-2012, 05:11 PM
6675

Don't know how this shows up but there is obviously a conspiracy. All shigs are damascus, just different polish and price.

bieniek
05-01-2012, 05:14 PM
Not necessarily.

Булат

Seth
05-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Wasn't literal...that's my kasumi.

Marko Tsourkan
05-01-2012, 09:34 PM
My guess is that the cladding is being folded a few times over, to remove impurities (I have read somewhere that Shigefusa uses old wrought iron stock sometimes), which creates a Damascus-like look.

M

schanop
05-02-2012, 01:31 AM
@bieniek, as requested. Just cleaned it a bit with some natural cleaner, so some patina is still on the blade
- First is the sexy distal taper spine shot.
- Second shows my first attempt polishing this blade after having had it for a little while.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2921/pict0011ip.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7380/pict0012ee.jpg

Peco
05-02-2012, 01:43 AM
Awesome blade :D

bieniek
05-02-2012, 01:58 AM
Wow thanks this is one hell of a sexy blade!
It tapers very nicely and the shinogi line and the front is awesome.

When I look at their knives I can see all the details that differs the product from other makers knives.

I must have one! :lol2:

The polish isnt bad at all, I wouldnt say that!

bieniek
05-02-2012, 02:02 AM
My guess is that the cladding is being folded a few times over, to remove impurities (I have read somewhere that Shigefusa uses old wrought iron stock sometimes), which creates a Damascus-like look.

M

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/kgrhqfhjbme7536kpgbpf01.jpg

Would you say that is damascus?

TB_London
05-02-2012, 04:23 AM
Well it's not pattern welded :)
Wasn't Indian Wootz traded in the middle east original Damascus?

Seth
05-02-2012, 07:29 AM
My guess is that the cladding is being folded a few times over, to remove impurities (I have read somewhere that Shigefusa uses old wrought iron stock sometimes), which creates a Damascus-like look.

M

This would be consistent with what Maksim/Maxsim told me about where the markings come from; old iron stock and impurities.

Seth
05-02-2012, 02:09 PM
I wonder if what is going on is actually the polish and number of layers. The kateiji has what I think is 16 layers on each side. (I clearly have too much time on my hands - between assignments...). Maybe the kasumis have like four layers for impurity reasons and different polish. On the plus side, we will be able to authenticate turn-of-the-century shigs on antiques road show in 50 years by testing with just the right polish in search of those four layers ;)

Marko Tsourkan
05-02-2012, 06:00 PM
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/kgrhqfhjbme7536kpgbpf01.jpg

Would you say that is damascus?

That iz wootz, or bulat, as it is called in Russia. If you want to be a stickler, you can call it The Original Damascus. :)


m

Namaxy
05-02-2012, 06:26 PM
Awesome blade :D

+1 to that....beautiful!

bieniek
05-03-2012, 01:07 PM
That indeed is Булат Marco :) Im gonna get kitchen blade made out of it at the end of may, hopefully...


If you want to be a stickler, you can call it The Original Damascus. :)
m


And thats why it is funny for me when people here call layered cladding a damascus.

Marko Tsourkan
05-03-2012, 06:10 PM
... Im gonna get kitchen blade made out of it at the end of may, hopefully...



who do you get your wootz blade from?

M

schanop
08-19-2012, 01:46 AM
Almost forgot I started a thread about Shigefusa Cloud a while ago. Had better update this..

KU single bevel petty 150mm. (one of) Newest toy(s) via Maxim.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3bQngcHkPsA/UC2MzlLVkpI/AAAAAAAAAmw/9y20S374v8w/s800/ku_petty2.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AwFebhJdSGE/UC2MzktG2vI/AAAAAAAAAm0/FhNo3VuPHVs/s800/ku_petty1.jpg

James
08-19-2012, 03:40 AM
The patterning is alloy banding right? I've brought it out in one of my knives with BKF, but it just doesn't stay after a few uses

schanop
08-19-2012, 04:37 AM
No idea if it is alloy banding. But shigefusa clouds seem to stay although patina will cover it up a bit, but next polish will bring the cloud back alive.

JasonD
08-19-2012, 06:10 AM
Ok noobie question: Can someone explain Damascus vs Wootz vs pattern-welded? I thought if it was 2+ different steels foldeded onto each other it was just damascus.

bieniek
08-19-2012, 06:48 AM
the effect is definitely sweet looking

Eamon Burke
08-20-2012, 01:00 PM
Ok noobie question: Can someone explain Damascus vs Wootz vs pattern-welded? I thought if it was 2+ different steels foldeded onto each other it was just damascus.

Damascus = Pattern welded steel. Two(or more) different steels that have different levels of Nickel, and therefore contrast when etched in acid, mashed together to create patterns.

Wootz = The steel that was used in what is now Syria to make swords. It was just a high carbon steel that got heat treated really funny, and developed visible lines(they were Iron Carbide structures IIRC). It performed better because it was hard, very high carbon steel(like 1.3% or something). Wootz blades are monosteel. It was a technique lost to time until a guy named Al Pendray re-created it. Pattern welding was the solution to simulating the look before Pendray, and now has taken over the term "Damascus".

bieniek
08-20-2012, 02:05 PM
Its quite far from southern India to Syria if you ask me.
Im not so sure about heat treatment, have to ask, but this steel was poured into forms and cooled in special way that made it look so funky.
Im quite sure the guy mentioned the cooling was the most important part of it.

Im still waiting on my test wootz kitchen blade and it is so interesting that Im quite pissed it take so long

Eamon Burke
08-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Really? I thought they were actually made in Damascus. Eurocentric stereotyping makes history so damn confusing.

Funny because india historically has a terrible kitchen knife culture, and now damascus is all about cooking.

bieniek
08-20-2012, 03:06 PM
Yeah, me too, before.

I think it had nothing to do with kitchen cutlery though [it might have had], other than if they chopped humans and eaten them :)

Eamon Burke
08-20-2012, 06:40 PM
lol yeah. The only knife for food I've seen from that part of India(that wasn't just like a pocket knife or a giant plate of steel) was some kind of weird knife-bowl combo thingy and you held the food and smacked it onto the knife.

jaybett
08-21-2012, 03:29 AM
You might want to look at this article.

http://projects.olin.edu/revere/Cool%20links/damascus%20sci%20amer%20jan%202001.pdf

Jay