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View Full Version : Vintage Beatty & Son Cleavers



Dave Martell
05-01-2012, 03:57 PM
I have two vintage Beatty cleavers up for sale from my own personal collection.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/dmart/p1010001-30.jpg


1. Size - #1
Steel - cast
Handle - Possibly hickory (Beatty was known to use this) - varnish removed
Edge Length - 8"
Overall Length - 16.5"
Weight - 2.5lbs (nearly)
Vintage - 1800's
Marked - "W.M. BEATTY & SON CHESTER PENNA.", "1", with steer centered
Condition - Cleaned, some rust pitting, hammer marks on spine, slight crack in handle near ferrule, handle very tight & secure

Price - $95 (+actual shipping costs)



2. Size - #Extra 0
Steel - cast
Handle - unknown wood - varnish still in place
Edge Length - 7"
Overall Length - 12.5"
Weight - 1.5lbs (nearly)
Vintage - 1800's (Early Production)
Marked - "ESTABLISHED", "CAST STEEL MEDIA", "W. BEATTY & SON", "EXTRA 0", with eagle/shield/arrows
Condition - Some rust remains, pitting, hammer marks on spine, slight crack in handle near ferrule, handle very secure & tight

Price - $75 (+actual shipping costs)



Both of these cleavers are easily over 100 yrs (and maybe even up to 200 yrs) old made in a time when water power was the only power. WM Beatty used the cast steel process to make some of the toughest tools still known to man. The handles were often engine turned from solid hickory. Anyone who's ever looked into vintage cleavers knows that these were the best made cleavers ever, second to none, and the fact that they've stood the test of time is simply remarkable since no one collected tools back when these were made, they were used and used hard without exception.

I've gone ahead and found these, removed the excess rust, and sharpened them up so that they can go straight to work for you. The edges will slice and push cut paper as easily as any Japanese knife will. A note to the next owners - respect these things or you will get cut bad! :)

I'll make two separate posts of pictures to follow showing each cleaver's details.

If you have any questions please ask.

Dave


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/dmart/P1010003-27.jpg

Dave Martell
05-01-2012, 04:00 PM
This is the #1

Dave Martell
05-01-2012, 04:03 PM
This is the # - Extra 0

ajhuff
05-01-2012, 04:16 PM
1810 or 1910?

-AJ

Dave Martell
05-01-2012, 04:18 PM
1810 or 1910?

-AJ

I corrected that AJ, I don't know the dates however if I was to go by known markings the Extra 0 should place early 1800's. The company started in 1806 and the eagle marking was used (to my understanding) early.

Vertigo
05-01-2012, 04:39 PM
You're killing me here Dave. Damn you!

ajhuff
05-01-2012, 04:59 PM
I think the fact that they say cast probably dates them to late 1800s early 1900s for earliest production. Very tempting.

-AJ

sashae
05-01-2012, 05:15 PM
The "& Son" apparently puts it prior to 1839, and the Eagle was the first signature mark they used, so that'd be the older of the two.

VoodooMajik
05-01-2012, 06:00 PM
So tempting.....

ajhuff
05-01-2012, 06:01 PM
Interesting conundrum.

-AJ

add
05-01-2012, 06:08 PM
I think if either of these were kept lashed on your front door, between kitchen tasks, unsolicited doorbell ringers and squirrel problems in your bird feeders would cease.

Very cool Dave.

Great prices.

Dave Martell
05-01-2012, 10:14 PM
Both SOLD

chuck239
05-01-2012, 10:21 PM
Thank goodness. I was just checking at work because if they were not sold I was going to take them.

-Chuck

Edit: if they don't sell, let me know.

ajhuff
05-01-2012, 10:30 PM
So now that they are sold, let's go back and discuss the "cast" stamp.

I am thinking that knives that are stamped cast were done so to reflect that the steel was cast billet. This would be to differentiate it from crucible steel, blister steel, cemented steel, puddle steel, etc. As time evolved and all steel was cast the stamp was no longer necessary. Note I am talking about the billets that were forged into blades being cast, not the blades themselves. I cannot fathom the actual blade being cast.

I'm not aware of any cast steel "prior to 1839" in the USA. Cast steel in the US didn't really start until post-Civil War with Bessemer and I wouldn't say there was any good quality cast steel until late 19th century, early 20th century. I suppose these cleavers could be made of imported German or English cast steel, but I think then they would have cost a pretty penny back then.

So I think it is interesting that the name and emblem would seem to indicate the cleavers were early 19th century yet the term "cast" would seem to me to indicate much late manufacturing.

Anybody have any more data?

-AJ

chazmtb
05-01-2012, 10:32 PM
Damn, I can't believe I missed them!

Dave Martell
05-01-2012, 11:14 PM
So now that they are sold, let's go back and discuss the "cast" stamp.

I am thinking that knives that are stamped cast were done so to reflect that the steel was cast billet. This would be to differentiate it from crucible steel, blister steel, cemented steel, puddle steel, etc. As time evolved and all steel was cast the stamp was no longer necessary. Note I am talking about the billets that were forged into blades being cast, not the blades themselves. I cannot fathom the actual blade being cast.

I'm not aware of any cast steel "prior to 1839" in the USA. Cast steel in the US didn't really start until post-Civil War with Bessemer and I wouldn't say there was any good quality cast steel until late 19th century, early 20th century. I suppose these cleavers could be made of imported German or English cast steel, but I think then they would have cost a pretty penny back then.

So I think it is interesting that the name and emblem would seem to indicate the cleavers were early 19th century yet the term "cast" would seem to me to indicate much late manufacturing.

Anybody have any more data?

-AJ


I've wondered about this myself and I have no explanation. I guess I assumed that they marked them "cast-steel" for some advertising purpose that was significant at the time but that they were really cemented or blister?

I always note how perfect the built up support section is where the handle enters the blade and how they all look alike in this regard. It can easily make you think of a casting process but then maybe a die or something like that?

Also worth noting is that the construction appears to be of a core with a jacket. The core steel throws BIG time carbon sparks and is hard as hell to grind (yet not brittle as they're almost never significantly chipped) and the jacket appears gummy and grabby towards the belts and buffers.

sachem allison
05-02-2012, 01:03 AM
This is from Colins post as he is a huge collector of Beatty's


I use two smaller old beattys almost every day, size 0 nd 2. That big boy is a #10 and has only been used to behead some large fish that has hit my dock. I also have a few lamb splitters that get used a lot. But to fully answer the question I have been trying to collect one of each size of Beatty in as good a shape as I can find.
This got harder when I learned that not only were there the "Beatty and son" cleavers made from cast steel that most of you know of, made from around 1820's-1900. In around 1940 one of the Beatty's daughters marred a mr. Briddell from that point on all the knives were stamped Briddell. But a older (also cast steel) cleavers made by the stamped " W. Beatty PA". These were made from around 1720-1750, he was the grandfather of the William Beatty from Beatty and son.
But hold on I'm not done yet a even older cast steel cleaver made by John Beaty from around 1680-1720, stamped "J Beatty Ulster Co NY" that's the one in the picture above.
AND! From what i can tell the oldest Beatty cleavers made stamped "Thomas Beatty Forged Down Co. Ireland 1662". If I'm right these were made by the great great grand uncle of the "Beatty and sons" in county down Ireland. I found this cleaver in a antique store in PA thing looks like it was never used, funny my oldest Beatty is the one in the best condition.

So there's lots of Beatty's out there.

sachem allison
05-02-2012, 01:04 AM
so they were cast steel marked 200 years before the Civil War, hope this solve at least some of the mystery

Dave Martell
05-02-2012, 01:10 AM
I can't say it solved anything for me except make my head spin thinking that there's even more out there to look for....thanks Son...and Colin too. :)

Oh and nice avatar Son....it's about time the rest of us can see it. :clown:

DwarvenChef
05-02-2012, 02:59 AM
Both SOLD

THANK YOU Whoever bought them because I would be getting shot if they had not been sold :p

sudsy9977
05-02-2012, 08:37 AM
Man....whats up with the quick sale!....i never thought so many wanted cleaners ...I'm trip pin over nicer stuff than that Dave!......Ryan

Dave Martell
05-02-2012, 10:20 AM
Man....whats up with the quick sale!....i never thought so many wanted cleaners ...I'm trip pin over nicer stuff than that Dave!......Ryan


Your collection might bring down the house if it came up for sale here. :)

Justin0505
05-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Damn... Nothing interesting for sale for a couple weeks and i get lazy about checking this section... And then i miss something like THIS!!!

Congrats to the buyer and seller.

Phip
05-04-2012, 10:49 AM
You're welcome! :biggrin: Have to say I'm quite pleased with myself and grateful to Dave.

chazmtb
05-04-2012, 02:03 PM
So since I missed out on the nice freshly sharpened piece of history, I went out on the bay and got this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261012271003&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:3160

Hopefully I can bring a little life out of the cleaver.

Dave Martell
05-04-2012, 06:19 PM
Nice score

Dave Martell
05-04-2012, 06:20 PM
You're welcome! :biggrin: Have to say I'm quite pleased with myself and grateful to Dave.

Did they show up yet?

Phip
05-05-2012, 07:12 PM
Yes, they just arrived. So cool I don't know where to start. I usually have something to butcher every fall, so I'll try to remember to share some action shots! Thanks again.

Dave Martell
05-05-2012, 07:15 PM
I'd love to see some action shots so please do post them.

Enjoy! :)