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DaveRossy
05-17-2012, 03:39 PM
:lol2: So, I want to order a Gesshin Ginga Gyuto from Jon tomorrow but the 240mm wa is out of stock but the 210 is in stock. I am currently using a Ken Onion Shun which is 8 inches. I would like to place an order an order Friday and was wondering if the 1" would make a difference. :wink:

Candlejack
05-17-2012, 03:41 PM
It does a difference. A noticable one. How big a deal it is is personal

Vertigo
05-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Depends on what you cut, how much of it you cut, and where you cut it. A 210 is plenty of knife for a home cook in a small kitchen on a little board. At work I use the biggest knife I can wield cuz I'm doing mire poix by the gallon.

El Pescador
05-17-2012, 03:53 PM
If you're a home cook its a great size.

bieniek
05-17-2012, 03:55 PM
not at home.

But maybe depends how big family you feed on regular basis?

Deckhand
05-17-2012, 03:55 PM
It matters. It is personal and you need to test drive knives to find your own preference. I have a brand new misono ux10 with saya I will eventually put in B/S/T section that is 210mm Fortunately for me Pensacola Tiger very graciously sent me a 240mm and 270mm to test drive before I decided on length the a Rodrigue custom knife. I preferred the 270mm so much I bought it from him. Yet another act of kindness on his part. In the near future I will my custom 270mm and I know I will buy a 300mm as well. Wa vs western feel different too. I like the wa. Jon is a great guy and he won't steer you wrong.

WildBoar
05-17-2012, 04:07 PM
I went from a 8" Wusthof chef's knife to a 210 Hiromoto gyuto, and felt the Hiro was too small. I picked up a 240 Hiro after that and was much happier. It helps to have a bigger cutting board as well, as it leaves you room to keep uncut and well as cut ingredients on the board and still give you working room.

stevenStefano
05-17-2012, 04:11 PM
If I were a home cook I'd get a 240. In work I use a 270. There's a massive difference between a 240 and a 210, and I don't see much of a downside with a 240, it is still a manageable size

DaveRossy
05-17-2012, 04:19 PM
Crap....I wish the 240 was in stock:curse:

bieniek
05-17-2012, 04:21 PM
yeah,,,people here mark that its so personal...how u know you are not 210 guy yourself?

Get one first, if you dont like it, sell it, buy another one.

Or ask someone here to borrow you one.

Lucretia
05-17-2012, 04:40 PM
And from the opposite side of things...

I've got a 210. Home cook, cooking for 2. I'm actually looking at getting something a little shorter. Maybe it's my stumpy arms, maybe I need a good pair of bifocals, but it's a little long to be comfortable for tip work. I'm only slicing one big onion at a time, only a couple of potatoes. My counter space is negligible--I just don't have room for a big knife. The 210 doesn't get used as often as my other knives, and it's probably my favorite for holding an edge. I'm hoping to get a 180 soon to see how that works out.

How do you like the 8" shun? Does it feel perfect for you, or do you find yourself wishing you had a little more knife?

mhlee
05-17-2012, 04:44 PM
In my opinion, one very important difference is the weight. According to Williams Sonoma, the 8 inch Ken Onion Chef's knife is 9.5 ounces (assuming that's correct). The 240 Gesshin Ginga Wa Gyuto (stainless) is 130 grams or 4.5 ounces, less than half the weight of the Ken Onion. The 240 mm is going to feel like a feather in your hand, the 210 even moreso.

I would absolutely recommend being patient and buying the 240. You will be absolutely amazed at the difference in weight and the length won't be an issue.

Deckhand
05-17-2012, 04:51 PM
In my opinion, one very important difference is the weight. According to Williams Sonoma, the 8 inch Ken Onion Chef's knife is 9.5 ounces (assuming that's correct). The 240 Gesshin Ginga Wa Gyuto (stainless) is 130 grams or 4.5 ounces, less than half the weight of the Ken Onion. The 240 mm is going to feel like a feather in your hand, the 210 even moreso.

I would absolutely recommend being patient and buying the 240. You will be absolutely amazed at the difference in weight and the length won't be an issue.

Agree, just wait for 240mm ask Jon how long or if you can't stand it any longer to wait he has a 270mm in stock :biggrin: Once feel the weight difference and how agile they are you will be a believer. Btw very good choice to go with Jon.

DaveRossy
05-17-2012, 05:20 PM
Thanks for everyone are input. I know I am just being inpatient, I wanted to order it tomorrow (the 240) while I have the funds. I love the feel of the Ken Onion but after reading and watching videos, it does not cut as well as the knives I have seen. I own 2 Kyocera ceramic knives (at California now being sharpened) and I love the lightness of them hence the move to the Gyuto. I did send an e-mail to john a few days ago about his sock level but I am sure he is busy so thatís why I posted the question here.Oh, and I want one NOW!!!!!!!!:lol2:

Crothcipt
05-17-2012, 05:23 PM
Usually its the weight that makes the difference. You will notice that you wont mind the extra length.

Deckhand
05-17-2012, 05:32 PM
Thanks for everyone are input. I know I am just being inpatient, I wanted to order it tomorrow (the 240) while I have the funds. I love the feel of the Ken Onion but after reading and watching videos, it does not cut as well as the knives I have seen. I own 2 Kyocera ceramic knives (at California now being sharpened) and I love the lightness of them hence the move to the Gyuto. I did send an e-mail to john a few days ago about his sock level but I am sure he is busy so thatís why I posted the question here.Oh, and I want one NOW!!!!!!!!:lol2:

I have a Kyocera my dirty little secret. I use it occasionally still easy to wipe of and put in the dishwasher:bigeek:
Jon has a phone number on his web site. Quite sure he wouldn't mind the call and would be very friendly.

Andrew H
05-17-2012, 05:36 PM
Jon has to sleep once in awhile; JKI is closed on Thursdays.

Pensacola Tiger
05-17-2012, 05:47 PM
If I had a 210 and a 240 I'd lend them to you so you could see the difference but I sold my last 210 two weeks ago.

I could lend you a 240 so you could find out what one is like. PM me if you are interested.

Rick

DaveRossy
05-17-2012, 05:52 PM
I know this is getting out of hand but....what do you think of a 240mm Sujihiki or am I just grasping at straws. I would have concerns about knuckle clearance.

99Limited
05-17-2012, 06:12 PM
Another thing about the differences between the 210mm and 240mm knives beyond the length is the 240mm is also a larger knife. So you have greater blade height and an larger sweet spot on the edge for cutting.

Deckhand
05-17-2012, 08:16 PM
If I had a 210 and a 240 I'd lend them to you so you could see the difference but I sold my last 210 two weeks ago.

I could lend you a 240 so you could find out what one is like. PM me if you are interested.

Rick

If you take him up on this pm me so I can lend you a 210mm gyuto at the same time.

DaveRossy
05-17-2012, 08:40 PM
You guys are awesome......:doublethumbsup:

tk59
05-17-2012, 09:22 PM
You could do that. Or if you want to put up your general geographical location, you can probably meet up with someone and check out a bunch of stuff. There are some get togethers happening this summer. I believe one in TX, PA and SoCal.

unkajonet
05-17-2012, 11:43 PM
Jon has to sleep once in awhile; JKI is closed on Thursdays.

Jon doesn't sleep, although the store is closed on Thursdays. I'd wait and talk to Jon. You never know: he might have spent the day picking up exactly what you want.

DaveRossy
05-18-2012, 08:00 AM
Thanks everyone for the guidance. If Jon says the Gesshin Ginga will be out of stock for a while then i'm going to choose between a Takayuki Grand Chef WA-Gyuto 240 or a Sakai Yusuke Swedish Stainless Steel 240. Thanks Pensacola Tiger and Deckhand for the offers, this is why I'm going to be a permanent fixture here and educate myself so I can offer the same great advice that I was give :doublethumbsup:

obtuse
05-18-2012, 03:05 PM
The bigger the better, until you hit 300mm...

obtuse
05-18-2012, 03:06 PM
Oh, check out the konosuke HD or konosuke swedish stainless high hardness

Lefty
05-18-2012, 03:26 PM
DaveRossy, if you're in Canada, pm me. I have both sizes and then some.

DaveRossy
05-18-2012, 03:51 PM
Sorry..I'm in North carolina. Just spoke to Jon (what a nice guy). he said the GG should be in stock in a couple of weeks but gave me some other suggestions. Trying to make a decision if I should wait or go with one of his recomendations :whistling:

Deckhand
05-18-2012, 04:07 PM
Sorry..I'm in North carolina. Just spoke to Jon (what a nice guy). he said the GG should be in stock in a couple of weeks but gave me some other suggestions. Trying to make a decision if I should wait or go with one of his recomendations :whistling:

Ah the mental torture:dazed:

GlassEye
05-18-2012, 04:41 PM
I have a Gesshin Ginga(white 2), waiting a couple of weeks would be worth it in my opinion.

DaveRossy
05-18-2012, 05:01 PM
OK, that does it....I'm waiting. I have just bought a King stone 1000/6000 with some guides and a nagura stone. I'll practice on my Globals and Ken Onion Shun so I'll have some sharpenings under my belt before the GG comes:pirate1:

memorael
05-19-2012, 06:54 AM
I would personally recommend a 300 at least.

SameGuy
05-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Heh. I wouldn't have guessed that anything smaller than 270 feels inadequate, yet somehow now it does. I even prefer the big knife on smaller items like onions. With the right profile, a big blade will be as agile as your skills allow.

Deckhand
05-19-2012, 11:23 AM
The last two comments are why I bought a boardsmith magnum maple board and I liked the extra prep space. I am very happy with my board. Don't know how I lived without it. If something ever happened to it. I would immediately replace it.

kalaeb
05-19-2012, 01:52 PM
Funny, as I look around at different knife makers through the world, (lately I have been on a South American kick)it seems as if chefs in the US prefer larger 240 to 270 knives, while people in Europe and South America use mainly smaller knives. I have a friend in Peru working in a kitchen and he said they don't have a knife over 180 mm. I wonder if this is due to size constraints, or just what they grew up with?

My question is, for those of you outside the US how many regularly use 240 or above?

SpikeC
05-19-2012, 02:00 PM
Americans are manly men and need manly knives!:pirate1:

dav
05-19-2012, 02:10 PM
I'm not a chef just a home cook, knives I use start from an 80mm parer to 180mm knives, not until I ventured onto this site did I explore longer knives. I now have a 210 and 240 gyuto and 270 yanagiba and have no problems using these. I still like to use smaller knives though and am in the process of ording a 165 and 210 petty just to cover all the bases lol. now if I had to choose 3 knives I'd go 80mm parer 150mm petty and a 210mm gyuto as all of my prep/cooking is done on a relatively small scale.

bieniek
05-19-2012, 04:14 PM
Americans are manly men and need manly knives!:pirate1:

lol

I actually think european standard is 24cm.
I like to use 27cm, even for the small jobs.

But for home use you dont need more than 21cm. Yeah, this site is about buying more and more knives, but how many dinners are you preparing a week? Be honest with yourself. Imho if you have 24cm edge or more you need at least large pro sized board.
I can imagine all the blah blah blah coming now, haha

Pensacola Tiger
05-19-2012, 04:21 PM
lol

I actually think european standard is 24cm.
I like to use 27cm, even for the small jobs.

But for home use you dont need more than 21cm. Yeah, this site is about buying more and more knives, but how many dinners are you preparing a week? Be honest with yourself. Imho if you have 24cm edge or more you need at least large pro sized board.
I can imagine all the blah blah blah coming now, haha

"Blah, blah, blah." :fishslap:

For years I got along fine with a 7" Wusthof santoku and a 3.5" paring knife and a 12"x12" board, so it certainly is possible. It's just more fun with a 240-270 and a bigger board.

Rick

SpikeC
05-19-2012, 04:31 PM
I have messed around with a lot of different length blades and the one that I grab most of the time is 8 inches. When I want to cut a watermelon in half I use my 12 inch ham slicer, tho!

bieniek
05-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Rick
Just for my information, how many tomatoes are you cutting a month?

SameGuy
05-19-2012, 04:32 PM
I know a lot of folks around here rag on the "lack of feel" and whatnot, but I'd love to have a place to store a huge SaniTuff board, like a 24x36. Hey, I don't see a lot of pro cooks and chefs chopping and prepping on end-grain maple and walnut boards. There's something to be said for these SaniTuffs.

Pensacola Tiger
05-19-2012, 04:37 PM
Rick
Just for my information, how many tomatoes are you cutting a month?

Why do you ask?

bieniek
05-19-2012, 04:39 PM
Why do you ask?

why do you think i do?

Deckhand
05-19-2012, 04:41 PM
I know a lot of folks around here rag on the "lack of feel" and whatnot, but I'd love to have a place to store a huge SaniTuff board, like a 24x36. Hey, I don't see a lot of pro cooks and chefs chopping and prepping on end-grain maple and walnut boards. There's something to be said for these SaniTuffs.
Maybe I missed the sanituff bashing thread. I think most people like them. I have one on my radar. I want one for cutting meat. I think they are great.

kalaeb
05-19-2012, 04:42 PM
I feel left out. I only cut approx 2133 tomatoes a month.

Pensacola Tiger
05-19-2012, 05:04 PM
I feel left out. I only cut approx 2133 tomatoes a month.

That's at least a couple thousand more than I do.

Pensacola Tiger
05-19-2012, 05:15 PM
why do you think i do?

No idea, that's why I asked.

tk59
05-19-2012, 05:18 PM
lol

I actually think european standard is 24cm.
I like to use 27cm, even for the small jobs.

But for home use you dont need more than 21cm. Yeah, this site is about buying more and more knives, but how many dinners are you preparing a week? Be honest with yourself. Imho if you have 24cm edge or more you need at least large pro sized board.
I can imagine all the blah blah blah coming now, haha

Need? Don't be ridiculous. 99% of cutting tasks most home cooks perform can be accomplished with a paring knife. So what? If you have a small knife for occasional use, the skill and the physical size, a longer knife is going to be more efficient. If you like refined edges, you will notice a drop in performance by the time you are done making a single large meal. Length gives you more edge to work with. I generally recommend shorter knives for people with less skill and less inclination to develop it.

bieniek
05-22-2012, 03:15 PM
Me ridiculous?
1. I dont know what do you mean by "most home cooks" but those I know cannot do even 20 percent of what they do with a paring knife. Not mentioning the higher risks of cutting yourself if you even tried. Or the lack of any forward/backward motion when cutting through wide things.
Or you mean those who open bags and packs? :biggrin:
2. Single large meal? TK, really? But maybe I dont know what refined edge is. What refined means?

3. I am sorry Im just stupid. Thats the reason. I cannot comprehend how home cook [who can do most of the tasks with a paring knife] benefits from 3 more cm of a edge to use.
[He also never used that kinda edge before cause he only got paring knife]
4. You should generally stop giving other people advice based on your own preference.

5. I guess I lack skill anyways, If I do my home cooking with short knife. Lol.
I guess it doesnt matter what size board I have, how much produce I cut, how nice job am I doing, do I like prep or not, what am I cutting, and so on.
Yeah, haha, how simple was that. I just have to work my skill!

Lucretia
05-22-2012, 04:52 PM
Ok, kiddies, time to lighten things up a bit.


I have messed around with a lot of different length blades and the one that I grab most of the time is 8 inches.

That's what she said.

Marko Tsourkan
05-22-2012, 05:13 PM
Ok, kiddies, time to lighten things up a bit.

...the one that I grab most of the time is 8 inches...

That's what she said.

OMG! Where are the mods?!!!

Dave Martell
05-22-2012, 05:32 PM
Ok, kiddies, time to lighten things up a bit.


I have messed around with a lot of different length blades and the one that I grab most of the time is 8 inches.

That's what she said.


OMG! Where are the mods?!!!


:rofl2:

jaybett
05-23-2012, 04:25 AM
OMG! Where are the mods?!!!

Out selling email lists to vendors.

Jay

aser
05-24-2012, 12:50 AM
270 at work, 210 & 240 at home depending on what I'm cutting.

270 is a bit overboard for 99.9% of people at home since you're most likely working on a small board. I have a 15 x 15 end grain board at home and 240 is the absolute max I will go on it, ideally 240 needs a bigger board than that.