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View Full Version : Decision time: which 270 guyto?



foreleft
05-22-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm a culinary student getting ready to graduate looking to upgrade my knife kit. I've gone through school with MAC and Victorinox, but knew from the second I walked into Epicurean Edge a couple years ago that they would be my starter knives. It's a 2nd career so I'm older than most and I take care of my stuff.

What type of knife(s) do you think you want?
270ish Guyto to start

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?
Replacing A MAC 8" chef series, mainly because I need something larger.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics- Meh
Edge Quality/Retention- Seems to have held up fairly well
Ease of Use- Loved the thinness at the tip, a great change from German knives. Way too short at times though.
Comfort- Lack of a bolster, overall balance kinda bites.

What grip do you use? Pinch

What kind of cutting motion do you use? Depends on what I'm cutting?

Where do you store them? Knife bag

Have you ever oiled a handle? No, but I'm not opposed to doing so

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use? Cheap poly about 99% of the time

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Ceramic rod

Have they ever been sharpened? Nope, but I got a set of Norton stones as a birthday present that I'm going to start playing with soon.

What is your budget? $300 is

What do you cook and how often? Looking for something that I can use in a professional kitchen.

After a bit of research here and other places I think I've narrowed it down to three choices but would love to hear what you guys think.

1: Konosuke HD 270 WA Guyto
2: Gesshin Ginga 270 Stainless WA Guyto

3: DT AEB-L Stainless 10 3/4" Guyto This one is just a bit over the budget, but I think I'm willing to do it if there is going to be that big of a jump from knives in the under $300 category.

So basically I'm looking for a thin 270 wa guyto, that can hold up in a pro kitchen, probably stainless or semi-stainless, and I eventually want to sharpen it myself after lots of practice on my cheaper knives...

El Pescador
05-22-2012, 10:34 AM
If you can afford it, the DT is a great choice. The steel will take a great edge and that edge will last longer than the other knives edges. It isn't as thin as the other knives thought. It will be thinner behind the edge.

stereo.pete
05-22-2012, 12:29 PM
I have a 240mm DT ITK Gyuto and I absolutely love it, his heat treatment on AEB-L is second to no one. His handles are also very well made so I would definitely recommend any of his knives.

kalaeb
05-22-2012, 12:45 PM
I have been on a hunt for "THE" 270 for me and it ended a few weeks ago with a DT.

obtuse
05-22-2012, 01:19 PM
That's a hard choice between the two. I love my HD and my gesshin ginga. I guess if i had to choose one i'd get the gesshin ginga to give jon business.

slowtyper
05-22-2012, 01:45 PM
Is the profile on HD and ginga identical?

Anyways, I have never used ginga but I have a 270 HD as my main knife and am very happy with it.

Dusty
05-23-2012, 03:39 AM
I love my hd. I would have bought a DT had I been able to afford it.

tk59
05-23-2012, 11:09 AM
Devin's AEB-L is going to take a keener edge and keep it longer. I think the geometry and cutting performance of the HD and Gesshin Ginga is going to be better. Thickness behind the edge on the HD/Gesshin is quite thin. Devin's knives vary in this respect. Some are incredibly thin near the edge and others are a bit chunkier than the HD/Gesshin. For this info, you should contact whoever is selling it to you. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these.

Andrew H
05-23-2012, 11:15 AM
$200 isn't something to sneeze at. I would go with the gesshin ginga to support JKI.

Sarge
05-23-2012, 11:20 AM
I'd go Ginga as my first choice, but if I felt I could justify the extra cost I'd grab a DT. Really you can't go wrong with any of those choices

wenus2
05-23-2012, 02:14 PM
I suppose I will echo what has pretty much already been stated, but I will clarify a few points.

I think most of us would rather own the DT, and that is largely due to the prestige of the name.

That being said, the Gesshin is likely the better choice here. Again, getting the nod over the HD for the experience of buying from the Broidas, and because I like unwrapping presents.

For 1, the DT is almost 2x as much money and (as TK said) it may or may not actually perform better.

2nd, it's a work knife. If it gets dropped on its nose or somebody jacks it.... how much can you afford to be out at this point in your career?
Work a while, make some money, then look at $500 knives.

3rd, the Gesshin and the HD will perform better as you work through the rookie sharpening curve. IMO the people who get truly great performance out of the DT are already accomplished sharpeners, anybody can get great performance out of your other, thinner, options. Work up to it.

4th, any of these knives will be such a step up from what you having been using that you are going to be happy. You can't go wrong here.

cnochef
05-23-2012, 02:21 PM
If you're buying a quality knife like the Ginga or HD, don't forget to budget for a better cutting board (a Sani-Tuff would be great at work) and at least a combination wet stone.

aser
05-24-2012, 01:01 AM
Don't be scared to sharpen your new purchase, just do it. If you're in a pro environment, no matter how great the knife is you're going to have to sharpen it after a week or two on poly boards.

I personally have a HD but actually prefer a slightly thicker knife (Yoshihiro 270) at work for durability.

I've often thought about buying a sanituff for work.

tk59
05-24-2012, 01:31 AM
...I personally have a HD but actually prefer a slightly thicker knife (Yoshihiro 270) at work for durability...Out of curiosity, what is it you are doing with the knife that you don't feel the HD can handle it?

foreleft
05-24-2012, 01:34 AM
Thanks guys, I love the idea of a DT, but some of you are right, I'd probably be too protective of it to really want to use it at work/school and if someone else damaged it I'd probably do something I'd regret.

I'm leaning towards getting the Ginga (have to find out when they'll be back in stock though) and using the "extra" $250 or so to start replacing other knives in my kit. I'm guessing I'll want something in the way of a 180 petty , a new slicer of some sort, or a 210 guyto just for use at home, maybe that's the place for a custom DT eventually...

kalaeb
05-24-2012, 01:53 AM
Thanks guys, I love the idea of a DT, but some of you are right, I'd probably be too protective of it to really want to use it at work/school and if someone else damaged it I'd probably do something I'd regret.

I'm leaning towards getting the Ginga (have to find out when they'll be back in stock though) and using the "extra" $250 or so to start replacing other knives in my kit. I'm guessing I'll want something in the way of a 180 petty , a new slicer of some sort, or a 210 guyto just for use at home, maybe that's the place for a custom DT eventually...


I don't think you could have gone wrong with any of your choices. Happy cutting!

aser
05-25-2012, 01:35 AM
Out of curiosity, what is it you are doing with the knife that you don't feel the HD can handle it?

it's more incidental contact w/ surfaces, causing bent tips. The yoshihiro I have seems pretty tough in comparison to the HD fo accidental contact. Mistakes happen in a pro environment, everybody is rushing. I also just want to use one gyuto at work, I'm not the type that'll pull out a knife for every task. I usually just have a gyuto and a 150mm petty out. If I break fish down then I"ll pull out my deba, that's it.

I wouldn't trust the HD with cutting through hard cheese or pumpkin/squash. I'm sure it can do it, but I rather use a thicker knife for the task. Plus I have a hamaguriba edge on my Yoshihiro, so it's still relatively thin.

mr drinky
05-25-2012, 02:04 AM
Those are all fine choices, but I would personally side with the DT -- despite the very good arguments to the contrary. You'll be fine, just choose a knife and build that love.

k.

obtuse
05-25-2012, 02:17 AM
HD cuts pumpkin like butter

tk59
05-25-2012, 10:24 AM
it's more incidental contact w/ surfaces, causing bent tips. The yoshihiro I have seems pretty tough in comparison to the HD fo accidental contact. Mistakes happen in a pro environment, everybody is rushing. I also just want to use one gyuto at work, I'm not the type that'll pull out a knife for every task. I usually just have a gyuto and a 150mm petty out. If I break fish down then I"ll pull out my deba, that's it.

I wouldn't trust the HD with cutting through hard cheese or pumpkin/squash. I'm sure it can do it, but I rather use a thicker knife for the task. Plus I have a hamaguriba edge on my Yoshihiro, so it's still relatively thin.

Hmm. I guess that's fair. As obtuse mentioned, I actually find my thin knives to really shine when cutting the heavy, thick, hard objects, as long as there isn't any prying involved.

As far as DT knives are concerned, I thought I might add that the sacrifice in geometry is offset by the thinness on the bottom half of the knife and the distal taper. As you sharpen DT knives, they don't require as much thinning as a lot of other knives and they still cut extremely well. It's the food release that isn't quite as good.

JohnyChai
05-25-2012, 01:45 PM
HD cuts pumpkin like butter

+1

Many thicker knives, including DT had issues with wedging or steering even...Not sure a Yoshihiro falls into the "thicker" category though

foreleft
08-08-2012, 10:24 AM
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the advice. I ended up picking up the 270mm Geshin Ginga in white #2. Also due to the generosity of some friends, an unexpected graduation present, I was able to grab a used 240mm Konosuke kiritsuke shaped guyto in white #1 off the BST forum here. After a lot of reading I decided not to be afraid of carbon steel. Not I just need to practice my sharpening.

I thought I'd compare the two knives for a while and then sell one, but I'm having a blast cutting and comparing them and can see they are each good at different things, so I may just have to keep them both... :-)

Lefty
08-08-2012, 10:41 AM
That's the spirit!
Congrats :)

K-Fed
08-08-2012, 11:43 AM
Better make space on the counter/ wall... :-). If you're anything like most of us the collection just grows and grows 'till you have to sell knives to make room for more new knives. Enjoy the journey!

foreleft
08-08-2012, 01:35 PM
Oh, I know, already got the Tojiro bread knife too, and will likely pick up at least one or two other new things depending on the job I end up with and what I'm doing day to day.

keithsaltydog
08-08-2012, 02:44 PM
Alright go carbon. now you have to get a good med grit stone to sharpen that white steel.I think that after you get a patina on your blades you will find that they work well in a production kitichen.Carbon works best when it is used alot.

Namaxy
08-08-2012, 03:01 PM
Better make space on the counter/ wall... :-). If you're anything like most of us the collection just grows and grows 'till you have to sell knives to make room for more new knives. Enjoy the journey!

Yup - this will certainly happen. It becomes scary how well you will learn to justify another knife to yourself!

Zwiefel
08-08-2012, 03:33 PM
It becomes scary how well you will learn to justify another knife to yourself!

+1

Time between
1st + 2nd knife: 15 years
2nd + 3rd: 3 years
3rd + 4th: 4 months

keithsaltydog
08-08-2012, 10:56 PM
+1

Time between
1st + 2nd knife: 15 years
2nd + 3rd: 3 years
3rd + 4th: 4 months

I'm with you like cajun cooking & Indian Curries.You must be a fan of the chili pepper.:razz:

Zwiefel
08-11-2012, 03:53 PM
I'm with you like cajun cooking & Indian Curries.You must be a fan of the chili pepper.

:razz:

For sure! I have an "unusual tolerance" for the chili :hungry:

The state of Andhra Pradesh in southern India is well-known within India for having the spiciest + hottest food in India. I took a couple of my Andhra friends to my favorite place in Phoenix, "Chino Bandido"...a Chinese, Mexican, Jamaican fusion restaurant. They wanted me to recommend the hottest dish on the menu, which is what I was going to order anyway...one of them couldn't eat it, and the other one cried the whole time. I didn't even think the heat interfered with the flavor of the dish :lol2: