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BDD
05-26-2012, 02:20 AM
Do you (preferably owner of Reserves) think the Reserves are noticeably better knives than the Premiers functionally (sharper...and maybe aesthetically)? With it's use of a different and more exotic steel combination?

I priced out an "essentials" set and they are roughly the same. Difference is I don't see a fork for the Reserve knives to use with the carving knife included in this set http://www.internetkitchenstore.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=2570. Whereas, I can get a Premier set w/ the fork.

Andrew H
05-26-2012, 02:33 AM
First off welcome to the forum, BDD.

Shuns aren't bad by any means, but you could definitely get much more out of $1200 with other makers. The main difference between the knives is the core steel, SG2 vs. VG-10. Both are stainless and pretty good kitchen steel knives. VG-10 doesn't get a ton of love on this site, and SG2 should hold your edge longer. Until you start sharpening yourself, which is very enjoyable and rewarding, you won't notice a huge difference between steels.

BDD
05-26-2012, 02:44 AM
First off welcome to the forum, BDD.

Shuns aren't bad by any means, but you could definitely get much more out of $1200 with other makers. The main difference between the knives is the core steel, SG2 vs. VG-10. Both are stainless and pretty good kitchen steel knives. VG-10 doesn't get a ton of love on this site, and SG2 should hold your edge longer. Until you start sharpening yourself, which is very enjoyable and rewarding, you won't notice a huge difference between steels.

Thanks.

To have the Reserves hold the sharpness a little longer? For a home user? Probably not worth the extra cost.

I am looking at MAC and Tojiro too. Tojiro, being one of the best bang for the buck. Unfortunately they don't make a carving life/fork set. So I'd have to buy from another brand (like maybe Shun's Premier line). :) Then there's steak knives...which Tojiro also doesn't make.

Other suggestions?

Vertigo
05-26-2012, 02:50 AM
Are you fixed on having everything come as a set with a block? What types of knives do you specifically need? Is $1200 or so roughly what you're looking to spend?

slowtyper
05-26-2012, 03:09 AM
The best idea IMO is to mix and match a bunch of different makers. For nerds like us thats the fun part, getting to try out different makers and steels.

BDD
05-26-2012, 03:24 AM
Are you fixed on having everything come as a set with a block? What types of knives do you specifically need? Is $1200 or so roughly what you're looking to spend?

Well, I don't NEED TO get a set from the same brand. Like I said I could buy some Tojiro (gyuto, bread & utility). Then buy the Shun Premier carving/fork set. It just happens that the Shun Premier line carries all the knives i'm looking to buy. The Reserves near the same money (minus the Reserve fork...can't handle them or do a tomato cutting test).

if any of you have specific recommendations instead of my Tojiro/Shun Premier idea...that and with the Tojiro...I can't handle them or see them first...i would have to order online and hope i like how they feel in my hands.

chinacats
05-26-2012, 10:09 AM
henckels and whustof both sell matching sets and cost less...profile is similar to shun and f&f is likely better imho...

Marko Tsourkan
05-26-2012, 10:24 AM
Shun Reserve line looks like a continuation (with a slight redesign) of Shun BK line. SG2 is not particularly user friendly steel ( high wear resistance, difficult to sharpen on water stones). Buying a knife that you have to send out to sharpen (and pay for it), doesn't seem to make much sense. Sharpening your knife is is an integral part of an experience of owning a knife.

You don't get much edge retention on Henckels or Wuesthof, as both are known to heat treat their knives not particularly hard and their steel selection on their SS knives is not that great. I don't know what line you are referring to, so can't comment on steel. Fit and finish should be good, as these are likely machine-made knives.

M

Pensacola Tiger
05-26-2012, 10:49 AM
Do you (preferably owner of Reserves) think the Reserves are noticeably better knives than the Premiers functionally (sharper...and maybe aesthetically)? With it's use of a different and more exotic steel combination?

I priced out an "essentials" set and they are roughly the same. Difference is I don't see a fork for the Reserve knives to use with the carving knife included in this set http://www.internetkitchenstore.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=2570. Whereas, I can get a Premier set w/ the fork.

The Shun Reserve knives appear to be the old Shun Kramer line without the Kramer markings or mosaic pin. The SG2 steel is at least a step above the VG10 of the Premier line, and will be most apparent in increased edge retention for the Reserve.

Whether the aesthetics of a matching set of knives is more important to you is entirely your call. Most everyone here has what could be termed an eclectic collection of knives because performance is valued more than uniformity, and that will affect the recommendations you get. You could have the best of both worlds by having custom handles put on some high performing knives and having a fork rehandled to match as well. Pierre Rodrigue has done some really stunning forks - see them here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4250-Well-I-ll-be-forked!

Actually, if I was going to spend the kind of cash you are on Shuns, I'd be talking to Pierre about some custom knives. A chef's, a slicer, a fork, a boning knife and a small utility from Pierre is going to be in the ballpark of what you are about to spend on factory made knives.

If you decide not to "mix and match", and to stay with one knife line, Henckels and Wusthof have been mentioned as alternatives, and you may want to look at the Sabatier knives at The Best Things: http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier.htm

Oh, and welcome to KKF!

Rick

Vertigo
05-26-2012, 01:18 PM
if any of you have specific recommendations instead of my Tojiro/Shun Premier idea...that and with the Tojiro...I can't handle them or see them first...i would have to order online and hope i like how they feel in my hands.
Kochi 240mm Kurouchi Wa Gyuto - $280
Konosuke 270mm White #2 Sujihiki - $204
Tojiro DP Boning Knife - $99
Tojiro ITK Bread Knife - $63
Gesshin Ginga 180mm Stainless Petty - $180
OXO Good Grips Grill Fork - $11
500/1200/5000 grit water stone set with loupe and deburring block included - $150
Boardsmith 2" x 16" x 22" Hard Maple endgrain cutting board - $152

Total: $1139 + shipping costs

The joy you'll feel in 6 months when you realize you're a lot happier with your sweet knives, awesome board, and your ability to sharpen than your Shun Set could have ever made you: Priceless

stereo.pete
05-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Kochi 240mm Kurouchi Wa Gyuto - $280
Konosuke 270mm White #2 Sujihiki - $204
Tojiro DP Boning Knife - $99
Tojiro ITK Bread Knife - $63
Gesshin Ginga 180mm Stainless Petty - $180
OXO Good Grips Grill Fork - $11
500/1200/5000 grit water stone set with loupe and deburring block included - $150
Boardsmith 2" x 16" x 22" Hard Maple endgrain cutting board - $152

Total: $1139 + shipping costs

The joy you'll feel in 6 months when you realize you're a lot happier with your sweet knives, awesome board, and your ability to sharpen than your Shun Set could have ever made you: Priceless

+1 Yeah, what he said!!!!!

BDD
05-26-2012, 01:37 PM
Shun Reserve line looks like a continuation (with a slight redesign) of Shun BK line. SG2 is not particularly user friendly steel ( high wear resistance, difficult to sharpen on water stones). Buying a knife that you have to send out to sharpen (and pay for it), doesn't seem to make much sense. Sharpening your knife is is an integral part of an experience of owning a knife.

You don't get much edge retention on Henckels or Wuesthof, as both are known to heat treat their knives not particularly hard and their steel selection on their SS knives is not that great. I don't know what line you are referring to, so can't comment on steel. Fit and finish should be good, as these are likely machine-made knives.

M

Hi Marko,

Regarding German knives like Wusthof (Classic series) I was thinking the same thing. That they don't retain an edge that well (compared to a Japanese brand...or French...K-Sabatier). But I've also heard others say that German knives can hold the edge. Just not as long as Japanese knives if used for hours on end. That German knives will just loose their edge first. And never come out of the factory as sharp as the Japanese knives (though part of that has to do with the angle of the cutting edge).

About sharpening...I do plan to take a course offered by my knife shop on sharpening using whetstones. That or bring my knives to the shop for honing/sharping if I get lazy.

Reserves harder to sharpen. Will keep that in mind.

Deckhand
05-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Pensacola tiger gave you the advice I was thinking. Get a set from Pierre Rodrigue and you will be extremely happy. Vertigo also gave great advice if you are a want to buy now kind of guy. Jon's videos from Japanese Knife imports can show you how to sharpen well and he has online classes. You will be a lot happier with either advice than your current mindset.

BDD
05-26-2012, 02:00 PM
The Shun Reserve knives appear to be the old Shun Kramer line without the Kramer markings or mosaic pin. The SG2 steel is at least a step above the VG10 of the Premier line, and will be most apparent in increased edge retention for the Reserve.

Whether the aesthetics of a matching set of knives is more important to you is entirely your call. Most everyone here has what could be termed an eclectic collection of knives because performance is valued more than uniformity, and that will affect the recommendations you get. You could have the best of both worlds by having custom handles put on some high performing knives and having a fork rehandled to match as well. Pierre Rodrigue has done some really stunning forks - see them here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4250-Well-I-ll-be-forked!

Actually, if I was going to spend the kind of cash you are on Shuns, I'd be talking to Pierre about some custom knives. A chef's, a slicer, a fork, a boning knife and a small utility from Pierre is going to be in the ballpark of what you are about to spend on factory made knives.

If you decide not to "mix and match", and to stay with one knife line, Henckels and Wusthof have been mentioned as alternatives, and you may want to look at the Sabatier knives at The Best Things: http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier.htm

Oh, and welcome to KKF!

Rick

Thanks for the recommendations RIck. But as a home user I think I'll put off going with custom knives for now. I'd rather have the ability to easily exchange the knives if I'm not happy with the quality. So I think I'm going to stick with buying from my local shop.

I have no problem with mixing/matching. Open to going that route too. And while there is the option of having the handles redone custom by Pierre...I doubt I'll go that far. Again, because I am just a "at home cook" and not a working chef.

And I think I am going to be getting Japanese knives (possibly K-Sab Vintage Au Carbone). Not considering the Wusthofs or Zwilling Henckels.

Marko Tsourkan
05-26-2012, 02:01 PM
Hi Marko,

... I've also heard others say that German knives can hold the edge. Just not as long as Japanese knives if used for hours on end. That German knives will just loose their edge first. And never come out of the factory as sharp as the Japanese knives (though part of that has to do with the angle of the cutting edge)...

Everything is relative.

German knives are typically hardened low to mid 50s RC (Classic lines). At that hardness, you going to need steeling it to keep edge straight (it will roll).

Majority of Japanese knives are hardened to 58-63RC, but steel choice (simple carbon steels, like White or Blue) won't hold edge for long either.

In a pro environment, you may get 2-3 shifts worth of cutting on one sharpening from Japanese knives and less than one shift from German (with some steeling in between). Almost nobody here uses German knives, so it is hard to give you more precise information, but for edge duration for Japanese knife in pro environment is what I have read here and on other kitchen knife forums.

Geometry on Japanese knives is typically thinner than on traditional (convex ground with bolster) German knives and they take a keener edge than German knives.

M

oivind_dahle
05-26-2012, 02:08 PM
If you are a home chef and there are more members of the family, I think you should consider smaller blades than the nuts here suggest. And if you have more people in the household you should consider stainless.


Gyuto: 180 to 225.
Petty: 120 - 150
Parer: 80 - 90


However if you are the only member gonna use this, then buy a cheap knife set for the rest and invest for yourself in some really fun ****.

Eamon Burke
05-26-2012, 02:09 PM
Kochi 240mm Kurouchi Wa Gyuto - $280
Konosuke 270mm White #2 Sujihiki - $204
Tojiro DP Boning Knife - $99
Tojiro ITK Bread Knife - $63
Gesshin Ginga 180mm Stainless Petty - $180
OXO Good Grips Grill Fork - $11
500/1200/5000 grit water stone set with loupe and deburring block included - $150
Boardsmith 2" x 16" x 22" Hard Maple endgrain cutting board - $152

Total: $1139 + shipping costs

The joy you'll feel in 6 months when you realize you're a lot happier with your sweet knives, awesome board, and your ability to sharpen than your Shun Set could have ever made you: Priceless

Ditch the suji, ditch the boner, replace the fork with one for Pierre Rodrigue, and use the money you save overall to buy a nicer gyuto from someone around here. But other than that, yeah.

BDD
05-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Ditch the suji, ditch the boner, replace the fork with one for Pierre Rodrigue, and use the money you save overall to buy a nicer gyuto from someone around here. But other than that, yeah.

From that list of knives I can only find Konosuke HD and Tojiro (ordered).

Don't think I'll go custom for now.

Eamon Burke
05-26-2012, 02:27 PM
You don't have to go custom. Just saying to go handmade. Anything from a Takeda to a Martell.

BDD
05-26-2012, 02:32 PM
You don't have to go custom. Just saying to go handmade. Anything from a Takeda to a Martell.

Have been considering Takeda too.

And why handmade (over quality factory made..like the Shuns)? Any particular reason?

Eamon Burke
05-26-2012, 02:38 PM
They have more sentimental appeal. I don't see a lot of home cooks with the kind of love relationship they get with handmade knives.

Pro cooks often get to love their factory blades because they put them through hell together, it's like an old pair of gym sneakers.

But home cooks, even the ones that really admire their Shuns, Globals, Konosukes, Suisins...of the folks who aren't serious knife nuts, the handmade knives hold a special place in their heart.

That is something worth considering when purchasing something you could give to your grandkids--having a knife that's more like a fingerprint than a postage stamp.

BDD
05-26-2012, 02:51 PM
They have more sentimental appeal. I don't see a lot of home cooks with the kind of love relationship they get with handmade knives.

Pro cooks often get to love their factory blades because they put them through hell together, it's like an old pair of gym sneakers.

But home cooks, even the ones that really admire their Shuns, Globals, Konosukes, Suisins...of the folks who aren't serious knife nuts, the handmade knives hold a special place in their heart.

That is something worth considering when purchasing something you could give to your grandkids--having a knife that's more like a fingerprint than a postage stamp.

Personally, I don't think I could have that kind of connection unless the knife was custom made one-off. So for me the difference between opting for a Shun or Takeda would have to be for functional reasons. Performance. Aesthetics. Design.

Any how back to Premier vs Reserve. :) Though I think my questions have been answered. Would still like to hear opinions from owners. Or those that have used either/both.

rsacco
05-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Then there's steak knives...which Tojiro also doesn't make.

There are Tojiro steak knives out there. They are sold on a site that is not allowed to be mentioned here. Just search Google for "Tojiro DP Steak Knife 4 Pc Set" and you should see the site that sells them in the top of non-paid search results.

Amon-Rukh
05-26-2012, 03:13 PM
I decided to try out a bunch of Shuns at SLT a while back while the fiance was looking at bakeware. The 8" premier chef's was the one of the bunch that I kind of liked--it's like a thinner, nimbler German style knife (lots of belly, good for rocking). The slicer had too much belly and too little clearance for my liking and the 10" chef's seemed a bit unbalanced and again too much belly. The tip was not very useful at all. I don't know the reserves, but if they are like the Shun Kramers, then I'm not a fan--the handles are too fat and the whole thing just doesn't come together as a pleasing whole for me. Trying them out made me want to run home and chop onions with my Shigefusa to soothe my nerves. There are a lot of options in the price range of the reserves/SKs that I would opt for first.

oivind_dahle
05-26-2012, 03:19 PM
I had to go for a set I would consider: http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-695973/Miyabi-Birchwood-Block-Set

Marko Tsourkan
05-26-2012, 03:25 PM
I had to go for a set I would consider: http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-695973/Miyabi-Birchwood-Block-Set

Why? Have you seen that knife up close or held it? I seen one up close - didn't do anything for me.

There is bid difference between hand made and machine made knives.

One thing I have noticed is that people when start go budged, buy bunch of knives, and later put them For Sale for less what they paid.

My advice is less is more - buy fewer but quality (relative thing) knives and enjoy them rather than keep buying more knives, looking for the "one". Sometimes, short of getting a custom, you won't find it.

M

oivind_dahle
05-26-2012, 03:31 PM
Blah blah
M

If I had to go for a set, I would still consider that one.
However I don't go for sets, I go for the best of the best.
You new on the forum or something?

Gravy Power
05-26-2012, 03:54 PM
I had to go for a set I would consider: http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-695973/Miyabi-Birchwood-Block-Set

Before I got into custom knives over the past few weeks, this was quickly becoming my favorite production knife, at least from an asthetic standpoint.

obtuse
05-26-2012, 04:16 PM
Why? Have you seen that knife up close or held it? I seen one up close - didn't do anything for me.

There is bid difference between hand made and machine made knives.

One thing I have noticed is that people when start go budged, buy bunch of knives, and later put them For Sale for less what they paid.

My advice is less is more - buy fewer but quality (relative thing) knives and enjoy them rather than keep buying more knives, looking for the "one". Sometimes, short of getting a custom, you won't find it.

M

This is great advice.

unkajonet
05-26-2012, 04:18 PM
BDD - have you spoken to any of the vendors who have sub-forums here? Both the custom makers and the vendors who carry multiple lines of knives all have excellent reputations as far as product and customer service.
A few people have come close to saying it, but have not flat out said it: for the amount of money you're willing to spend, you're doing yourself a disservice by not at least seeing what some of the other vendors have to offer. If you want something from Shun, by all means, get it. But IMO, just a little more research will get you a much better product.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. The more, the merrier.

BDD
05-26-2012, 04:34 PM
BDD - have you spoken to any of the vendors who have sub-forums here? Both the custom makers and the vendors who carry multiple lines of knives all have excellent reputations as far as product and customer service.
A few people have come close to saying it, but have not flat out said it: for the amount of money you're willing to spend, you're doing yourself a disservice by not at least seeing what some of the other vendors have to offer. If you want something from Shun, by all means, get it. But IMO, just a little more research will get you a much better product.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. The more, the merrier.

Hello unkajonet,

No I haven't checked the vendors who have sub-forums here. Will check them out.

I'm not just looking at Shun. Other brands include...MAC, Tojiro, Takeda, Konosuke, Masamoto, Moritaka...etc. I was just curious what people thought of Shun Premiers and Reserves. And no I don't have to buy a set. :)

Knives I am buying are...chef's, bread, carving/fork, utility. + steak knives (and thank u to the poster's tip on finding Tojiro steak knives...found the online vendor).

And thanks for the welcome.

Amon-Rukh
05-26-2012, 05:24 PM
I had to go for a set I would consider: http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-695973/Miyabi-Birchwood-Block-Set
I would pick those over either the Shun premiers or reserves as well. But like so many others have pointed out, at $300+ for a single knife, there's a world of more exciting stuff out there.

Dream Burls
05-26-2012, 05:39 PM
I'm a little late to the party here, but....

About nine months ago I was where you are now, trying to figure out what knives to buy. My research, which, unfortunately, I did on my own, led me to the Shun classic line. It was later that I found this forum and realized how much better, and smarter I could have been.

Here are the questions I wish I had asked then.

How many knives do I really need, at least to start with? The wisdom found in these forums indicates that a good starting point is a chefs knife (guyoto), a utility knife (petty) and a paring knife.

What lengths should these knives be? Go to a store and play with some. What feels best in your hand? How big a cooking space do you have? How big is your cutting board? A 270mm guyoto is going to be awkward to use on a 12" cutting board.

What kind of handle should I get. Again, go to a store a feel the difference between western and wa, the difference between octagonal and D shaped.

Do I want stainless or carbon?

How important are aesthetics?

What's my budget?

What's important in the performance of the knives, edge retention, sharpening ease?

If you answer these questions they will dramatically narrow the field of consideration and your purchase will be one of the head as well as the heart. Remember, if you're willing to spent a grand or so on knives they should last you a long time and you should love it every time you pick one up.

BDD
05-26-2012, 05:42 PM
$300+ for a single knife? The only reason I'm considering the Reserves is that they offered an "essentials" knife set that was priced comparable to what i would have ended up spending if i went for the Premiers + carving/fork set. Otherwise I wouldn't be looking at $300 knives being just some one who enjoys cooking.

I'm sure i'd be happy with any $100-200 Japanese chef's knife. Or bread knife. Carving. Most knives I have been looking at are under $200 each. With the odd exception where there was a $230 Masamoto. I think the Moritaka gyuto 210mm was a hair over $300.

Just looking for high quality knives for home use. I'm far from being a fanatic like most of you here. So, in the end, I think it will come down to how the knives look to me and how they feel in my hand. I'm sure all the knives being mentioned here and those that I'm looking at will be more than "sharp enough".

chinacats
05-26-2012, 07:58 PM
Just looking for high quality knives for home use. I'm far from being a fanatic like most of you here. So, in the end, I think it will come down to how the knives look to me and how they feel in my hand. I'm sure all the knives being mentioned here and those that I'm looking at will be more than "sharp enough".

Sharp enough is great for the first week or so, then it depends on what you do to keep it that way. Most here actually improve on the factory edge--which is usually not that great anyway...

BDD
05-26-2012, 08:16 PM
Sharp enough is great for the first week or so, then it depends on what you do to keep it that way. Most here actually improve on the factory edge--which is usually not that great anyway...

Are you referring to all types of factory knives? German (Wusthof), Japanese (Shun, Tojirio)...etc. I would have thought the degree of sharpness coming out of the factory would last for weeks if not months. In "typical" home use (e.g. preparing dinner almost 7 days a week).

I would probably hone the knife periodically. I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year. Unless they did their own sharpening at home with whetstones (or a quality electric sharpener).

Would handmade knives keep their edge longer under the same conditions (e.g. Takeda)?

chinacats
05-26-2012, 08:32 PM
I am a home cook, and like my knives extremely sharp...I wind up touching up on stones about every 3-4 weeks, but use a rotation of 7-8 knives. It depends on how you use them and what you call sharp! I don't know what an electric sharpener would do, but wouldn't use one on any knife I liked or spent a bunch of money on...

I think maybe you should look more into the profile you want...Sabatier and Shun which you mention are not at all similar knives...

Marko Tsourkan
05-26-2012, 08:40 PM
...I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year.
..



Where did you read this? :D

I should stop wasting my time and buy myself a Shun then.

M

Andrew H
05-26-2012, 08:45 PM
Are you referring to all types of factory knives? German (Wusthof), Japanese (Shun, Tojirio)...etc. I would have thought the degree of sharpness coming out of the factory would last for weeks if not months. In "typical" home use (e.g. preparing dinner almost 7 days a week).

I would probably hone the knife periodically. I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year. Unless they did their own sharpening at home with whetstones (or a quality electric sharpener).

Would handmade knives keep their edge longer under the same conditions (e.g. Takeda)?

Sharp is a relative term. Sharp for most home users would probably mean slicing a tomato cleanly. Sharp here means being able to push your knife down on the tomato and have it pierce the skin without it flexing.
Every knife you get at sur la table (Wusthof, Shun, Miyabi, etc) can be made sharper in around 3 minutes on a 1k sharpening stone with little to no experience. Would out of the box (OOTB) sharpness on these knives be enough for most people? Yes. Would it last a year without being sharpened? No.

Handmade isn't the really relevant to edge holding ability. It has to do with what steel the knife is made with and how it is heat treated. Using your example a takeda will hold an edge longer than a shun or wusthof. A custom knife from any of the vendors here would also. Just because of the quality of materials they use.

skewed
05-26-2012, 08:53 PM
Are you referring to all types of factory knives? German (Wusthof), Japanese (Shun, Tojirio)...etc. I would have thought the degree of sharpness coming out of the factory would last for weeks if not months. In "typical" home use (e.g. preparing dinner almost 7 days a week).

I would probably hone the knife periodically. I read that Shuns (for example) don't need to be sharpened more than once a year. So the owners would only have to send them in to Kai once a year. Unless they did their own sharpening at home with whetstones (or a quality electric sharpener).

Would handmade knives keep their edge longer under the same conditions (e.g. Takeda)?

Oh my!

Personally: I buy nice quality knives for the sole reason to be able to get the most out of them as a tool. This means that I keep them at or above 90% of their cutting potential (ball park figure) and enjoy doing so. Being able to do so is just as important as the quality of the knives.

Out of the box sharpness is rarely anywhere near 90%. I often times use a knife for a day before digging in and sharpening it, just to see where it is.

I tend towards carbon steel knives because they get very sharp quite quickly and easily. Touching them up by stropping on a fine 'finishing' stone only takes a few minutes.

One way or another, to get the most out of these tools, you will need to tune and maintain them. For some German knives are great: just use a steel on a regular basis and redefine the bevel on a stone as needed.

Cheers!
rj

BDD
05-26-2012, 09:17 PM
Buy now? I'm living In LA temporarily and won't be home till the end of the year. So no. Not yet. :)

Sharp. Relative term depending on your knowledge or experience I think. Before I joined knife forums I assumed any knife sold at a major department store (e.g. Henckels, KitchenAid...etc.) was "sharp". If it could cut your veggies and meat it was "sharp". Little did I know knives could be sharp enough to pass through a tomato sitting on the table with ease. Without moving the tomato. Paper thin slices.

Any how thanks for your help people. As a home cook I'm sure I'll be happy with any of the brands I mentioned. Question for me that still remains is do I do some mixing/matching (e.g. 1 Takeda gyuto + a few Tojiro + Shun Premier carving/fork) or just buy one brand. Dunno yet..will most again later this year after I've bought my knives.

The Edge
05-26-2012, 09:26 PM
If you're in LA, I would suggest visiting Japanese Knife Imports. Jon is a great guy to talk knives with, and has a great stock to choose from.

GlassEye
05-26-2012, 09:45 PM
You should go to Japanese Knife Imports, it would be a greatly educational trip and you could probably handle some great knives. I am sure Jon would work with you to find the best setup for your needs.

EdipisReks
05-26-2012, 10:25 PM
i'd get a set of Tojiro DPs and pocket the difference. well, i wouldn't, but you might want to.

VoodooMajik
05-27-2012, 01:09 AM
I would say watch they BST forum here. that and a Rodrigue fork. XD

tk59
05-27-2012, 01:18 AM
You should figure out what knife you are going to use most. Buy a awesome knife for whatever it happens to cost and work from there. If you're in LA, you'd be foolish, not to go see Jon. He has a load of stuff you can put your hands on and oddly, he will actually try to dissuade you from buying something he doesn't think you will really want.

BDD
05-27-2012, 01:35 AM
most=post

While in LA...if I happen to be in the area of the shop..sure why not. For the hell of it. But as I said I'll be flying home at the end of the year. For that reason I won't be buying any knives here. Talking to Jon and handling some knives to get a quick idea about how certain knives feel? Perhaps.

Best to buy locally IMHO. Thanks again people. See ya all in a few months.

sachem allison
05-27-2012, 01:58 AM
well, i guess that's that.

slowtyper
05-27-2012, 02:54 AM
stubborn guy haha

Lefty
05-27-2012, 10:54 AM
Annnnnndddd, I'm out!

Lefty
05-27-2012, 11:01 AM
I know this thread is now dead, but the smartest thing I ever could have done with my "first knife" was buy a Misono moly.
It taught me a lot about geometry, thinness behind the edge, proper technique for a more "delicate" knife, I learned to really sharpen on it, etc. At the time, the price was right and it's the knife I pick up most often, even with better knives in my stable. I beat on it pretty hard and it loves the work. If I am staying out of town, I bring it. If I'm making a meal outside, where things get forgotten due to drinks and sunshine, it's my right...ahem...left-hand man.
I really wish they'd rethink their current pricing, as I think it was one of the best bargains out there.