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Pensacola Tiger
06-02-2012, 12:49 PM
If anyone is interested, I will do a passaround of the Butch Harner kiritsuke-gyuto I recently posted in my gallery: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4911-Pensacola-Tiger-s-Knives?p=113725&viewfull=1#post113725

The knife is with Eamon right now getting a saya made for it.

The usual rules apply - keep it a week, sharpen it only if you know what you're doing, insure it when shipping to the next person on the list. No need to write a review, but if you want to post about your experience, please do.

I'm thinking six to eight participants, preference given to Site Supporters. Minimum of 50 posts or if you're known to me. Selection won't be first come, first served so to give anyone working today a chance to put their name in the hat. PM me or reply in this thread if you're interested.

One disclaimer, the right-hand scale has a hairline crack that has been repaired with CA glue. It has held up for over six months, and I don't expect it to come apart, but if it does during the passaround, c'est la vie.

Rick

Pabloz
06-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Yes Sir...please count me in.

jm2hill
06-02-2012, 12:57 PM
I have a very similar knife albeit a different shape, but its awesome.

7569

Its a monster to play with and hold. If I didn't have this I would get in on this passaround ASAP.

stereo.pete
06-02-2012, 01:01 PM
I would love to try one of Butch's knives, I am in if you'll have me.

Pensacola Tiger
06-02-2012, 01:03 PM
Yes Sir...please count me in.

Your name's in the hat.

Pensacola Tiger
06-02-2012, 01:03 PM
I would love to try one of Butch's knives, I am in if you'll have me.

You're in the "hat", too, Pete.

obtuse
06-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Im in :) please

knyfeknerd
06-02-2012, 01:39 PM
Yes yes yes plz plz plz!!!

HHH Knives
06-02-2012, 02:00 PM
I would like a go around with this one! Please add my name to the hat. :) Thanks

Pensacola Tiger
06-02-2012, 02:42 PM
Three more in the hat.

El Pescador
06-02-2012, 03:18 PM
I'd like to participate too.

DwarvenChef
06-02-2012, 03:23 PM
LOL I was just used my Butch "machette" as it's been called at work, I don't dare try one of his carbon blades as I'm already trying to afford a knife I can't afford :p
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/DwarvenChef/NewKUfromButch.jpg

SpikeC
06-02-2012, 03:23 PM
I would love a chance to see how his O1 is, as well as try out that big honkin' profile!

JMJones
06-02-2012, 03:36 PM
I would be interested as well.

Pensacola Tiger
06-02-2012, 05:23 PM
Three more for the hat.

Crothcipt
06-02-2012, 06:31 PM
I have been wanting to try one of Butches knives. Please count me in.

EdipisReks
06-02-2012, 06:54 PM
i'd love to try one of Butch's knives!

Justin0505
06-02-2012, 07:01 PM
Wow, these things always fill so fast! I'd love to try one of his knives and this is a very unique design. I like cleavers and this doesn't seem too far off.

Pensacola Tiger
06-02-2012, 07:32 PM
Okay, I count eleven, and because I hate to cut anyone out who's replied, everyone's in.

Here's the list:

Pabloz
stereo.pete
obtuse
knyfeknerd
HHH Knives
El Pescador
SpikeC
JMJones
Crothcipt
EdipisReks
Justin0505

So, if everyone will PM me with their name, shipping address and contact information, I'll get the ball rolling.

Rick

ThEoRy
06-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Gaaahhh!!! Late tables!!!!! I need a pass around rss feed straight to my phone :P

Pensacola Tiger
06-03-2012, 11:07 AM
One latecomer, ThEoRy, added to make an even dozen participants.

Still waiting on a couple of addresses so I can micromanage the passaround order.

Rick

Lefty
06-03-2012, 11:23 AM
I wish you luck, my friend.
I think you have a solid list here, but it can, a times get a bit...ummm...hectic.

Pensacola Tiger
06-03-2012, 11:56 AM
I wish you luck, my friend.
I think you have a solid list here, but it can, a times get a bit...ummm...hectic.

One at a time, one at a time ...

Pensacola Tiger
06-04-2012, 09:15 AM
There wasn't any geographic co-location to consider, so I put the 12 participant's usernames in alphabetical order, then took out my 12-sided die (everyone has a 12-sided die, right?) and used it to determine this list:

stereo.pete
Crothcipt
Justin0505
SpikeC
JMJones
HHH Knives
EdipisReks
knyfeknerd
El Pescador
obtuse
ThEoRy
Pabloz

As soon as Eamon finishes up with the saya/sheath, the Harner will be on its way to stereo.pete.

Rick

Lefty
06-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Unfortunately, my 12 sided die is on loan, but yes, I think everyone has one.
This should be a fun passaround :) If comments come from it, I'll be reading them with quite a bit of interest.

Crothcipt
06-04-2012, 08:22 PM
Mine got lost with my 50d. But I think I have a 20 some were around here. There is a store down the street were I can get what ever die I want.

I can't wait:film:

stereo.pete
06-05-2012, 12:44 AM
Oh yeah!

stereo.pete
06-05-2012, 10:04 AM
Ok, so when I receive it, who put the last edge on it, Eamon or Rick?

Eamon Burke
06-05-2012, 01:18 PM
Me. Should go out later today, depends on the logistics of things.

Pensacola Tiger
06-05-2012, 08:50 PM
Pete,

Eamon tells me the Harner's on its way, with a new jacket.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--3U2adJAfNQ/T85YmDCkQLI/AAAAAAAAAgk/rxZ5NgO2nok/s640/2012-06-05%252014.05.45.jpg

Let me know when you get it.

Enjoy!

Rick

Lefty
06-05-2012, 09:19 PM
Great looking saya, Eamon (and Rick)!

Eamon Burke
06-06-2012, 12:04 AM
If I'da known it would be posted, I wouldn't have used a dirty windowsill. :lol2:

If you could give me any and all feedback on this sheath as the passaround goes, well, around, I'd appreciate it. No need to coddle me, I want to hear what you guys think.

l r harner
06-06-2012, 12:22 AM
dam good looking window sill

jm2hill
06-06-2012, 12:23 AM
If I'da known it would be posted, I wouldn't have used a dirty windowsill. :lol2:

If you could give me any and all feedback on this sheath as the passaround goes, well, around, I'd appreciate it. No need to coddle me, I want to hear what you guys think.

I don't like your saya's very much at all... :justkidding: it's not like I was thinking I would bring all my knives to Austin with me so I could then bring them to you to make some for them. No I never have that thought once or twice a day.

At the very least I want one for my ITK Bread, my Harner, my CCK...

I have this whole plan in my head. First to Mike for new handles, then to you for some covers. Now to save up the money to do that.

Eamon Burke
06-06-2012, 12:55 AM
dam good looking window sill

Thanks I'll let you keep one of your Nakiris there.

RRLOVER
06-06-2012, 06:51 AM
I am happy to see the 'ol girl getting used:thumbsup:

Pensacola Tiger
06-06-2012, 09:11 AM
If I'da known it would be posted, I wouldn't have used a dirty windowsill. :lol2:



A little judicious cropping, and ...

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Sale/1ad42d32.jpg

HHH Knives
06-06-2012, 09:17 AM
I actually seen this blade last year at the Hammer in, Mario brought it for us to see. I probably could of cut something with it then. But didnt get the chance to. Im really looking forward to getting the opportunity to put this one to work. Thanks again

EDIT.. Nice work on the sheath BTW.. Im impressed. :)

Lefty
06-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Sorry to bog the thread down, but my saya that Eamon made me (one of his first, I believe) is still fitting beautifully and holding up very well. It takes a bit of a beating too. I use it on the knife, then jam it under a corner on a sheetpan to get juices for sauces, use it as a spoon holder for tasting/stirring spoons, spreading mortar...ok, maybe not the last one.

stereo.pete
06-06-2012, 11:52 AM
Wow, that looks very nice, can't wait for it to arrive!

Crothcipt
06-06-2012, 11:44 PM
hmm It may be a good thing lefty isn't in the pass around. The knife prob. would make it but the saya may have problems.:clown:

stereo.pete
06-08-2012, 12:25 AM
The knife arrived safely at my doorstep today, all is well.

Lefty
06-08-2012, 09:17 AM
:D
I'm no Pesky, but I like to use my tools and not have to baby them. It actually explains why I favour the knives I do quite a bit.
To be honest, this one looks right up my alley. :)

stereo.pete
06-08-2012, 01:41 PM
Ok, so I'll post some pictures either late tonight after work or early tomorrow afternoon depending on how much sleep I need. So far I've only had the chance to cut one onion and all I can say is that I am impressed. This knife acted as if there was no onion and I was slicing through air, absolutely fantastic. I don't know if this is the result of Butch's grind/steel/HT or Eamon's sharpening or a combination of both. My guess is it's a little bit of A and B and clearly I still have work to go on my sharpening abilities. I will have to do more testing, much more testing but so far I'm digging it. I also can say that I love the extremely flat profile as I do 90% push cuts.

OK, I couldn't help myself, here's a teaser pic.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/797/butch1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/butch1.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

EdipisReks
06-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Sorry to bog the thread down, but my saya that Eamon made me (one of his first, I believe) is still fitting beautifully and holding up very well. It takes a bit of a beating too. I use it on the knife, then jam it under a corner on a sheetpan to get juices for sauces, use it as a spoon holder for tasting/stirring spoons, spreading mortar...ok, maybe not the last one.

i have one Eamon saya (and two on the way), and while i haven't used it as a sheet pan, or to hammer nails into my latest victims, it is certainly holding up well!

stereo.pete
06-11-2012, 07:03 PM
Well, I have had a few days to play around with this knife and here's my brief synopsis.

Fit and Finish: Not including the cracks that developed, the handle itself is beautiful, and the tang is blended perfectly. The blade is straight with no over grinds etc etc. Maker's mark is very clear, defined and overall, the knife is very well-made.

Aesthetics: Other than Butch's Nakiri, I cannot get into his "radical/rustic" shaped knives. This is my problem, not butch's or anyone else's.

Performance: The profile is perfect for my style of cutting, which is 90% push cutting. The grind is awesome, it fell through everything I threw at it with minimal sticking. Eamon's edge plus Butch's grind = one serious cutting machine. I wasn't perfectly perpendicular with my cutting board when horizontally slicing onions and I shaved a bit off my Board Smith board (oops :O). The performance has been so very great for me, that now I am considering looking into a Butch knife in the future. Function for me is way more important than form I guess, I just wish he made a Gyuto that I liked the look of. Perhaps I will look into getting a Nakiri if I like my Carter when it arrives.

Eamon's sheath was very well-made with no rough areas, gaps or unevenness anywhere. Once again, similar to Butch's knives I prefer a different design asethetically but the blade fit perfectly into his sheath. In fact, it friction fit and the pin was not necessary, although I understand wood changes overtime so the pin will be necessary in the future. Maker's mark was well burned in and overall I thought it was very nice. It is just as nice as my Shigefusa saya, which once again isn't the nicest looking but from a function standpoint, it is amazingly well fit.

Pics...

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1050/bh1f.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8912/bh3.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7233/bh4p.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1553/bh5v.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9960/bh6e.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5227/bh7e.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5871/bh8t.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

Below is the crack mentioned earlier.
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8163/bh9x.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

Below you will see a very small crack on the top left hand corner of the handle that I noticed.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5708/bh10p.jpg
By ChicagoPete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/ChicagoPete) at 2012-06-11

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3434/bh11.jpg
By chicagopete (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/chicagopete) at 2012-06-11

EdipisReks
06-11-2012, 07:07 PM
that's a nice patina that is building!

Crothcipt
06-11-2012, 07:10 PM
Great pics. Can't wait to try this bad boy out.

Pensacola Tiger
06-11-2012, 07:16 PM
Thanks for sharing your impressions of the knife, Pete, and I'm glad to hear you enjoyed using it.

Good pics, too!

Rick

stereo.pete
06-11-2012, 07:18 PM
P.S. I did not sharpen it because it did not need it and I will be packing it up and shipping it out Wednesday morning!

Lefty
06-11-2012, 08:13 PM
Damn! Wish I got in on this too. I need to try a Harner.

jm2hill
06-11-2012, 11:18 PM
Lefty, you still live in Canada? same city as before?

I think, I'll send you one so long as you promise to review it. Oh and send it back.

l r harner
06-12-2012, 08:52 AM
looks liek it split witht the grain im thinking i can back fill that and refinish it. in the long run to i might have to replace it
i ll hav eot back trace the wood source and make sure its not from a batch that i had trouble with (might jsut have been bad luck as it is wood after all)

Lefty
06-12-2012, 09:28 AM
Damn, I saw Butch's name pop up after the generous offer from jm2hill and thought, "hmmm. Maybe butch wants me to try out his top-secret new knife".
Ah well, maybe next time.... Haha

I'll think about the offer. Thanks jm!

stereo.pete
06-14-2012, 12:49 AM
Sorry guys, I will have this out to the post office first thing tomorrow morning.

stereo.pete
06-14-2012, 05:38 PM
Shipped this morning via USPS, expected to arrive at Shane's door on the 16th but I'm guessing the following Monday.

Crothcipt
06-18-2012, 07:49 PM
I received this today and plan on using it some this week. Also planning on sending it out on Thurs. I also received the Yam... Nakari (sorry am in a hurry, and can't remember how to spell it. No insult is intended.) So it will be a busy week. Not to mention the 1200 stone will be showing up on Wed. I'm just a little excited.:happymug:

Crothcipt
06-19-2012, 12:28 AM
Um I was mistaking earlier. I will be sending this out prob. on Mon next week. The Nakarii is on its way to a new owner. Sorry for my confusion.

l r harner
06-19-2012, 12:39 AM
i too am confused as i didnt now it was changign owners but just being passeds around

Pensacola Tiger
06-19-2012, 09:25 AM
i too am confused as i didnt now it was changign owners but just being passeds around

No, it's not changing owners, at least as far as I know. Just a bit of confusion, I hope.

Butch, it will be going to you for a new set of scales at the end of the passaround, though.

Thanks in advance, your treatment of your customers is outstanding.

Rick

stereo.pete
06-28-2012, 12:45 AM
Any updates?

Crothcipt
06-29-2012, 11:00 PM
Omg. I had no idea what I was getting into when I started out with this knife. I took it to work for a few days, and it was fun to have. I just used it like a Gyuto. I love the height of it, it goes will with the length. The balance you would think of as awkward but it isn't. The only thing I had a problem with was some wedging with potatoes. I posted some pics here when I had the Yamawaku Nakiri with it.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6660-Yamawaku-Nakiri?p=120823&viewfull=1#post120823

The Saya is absolute great protection. The fit is great. No need for the pit, yet.
824682478248

I decided to do some cubing of a potato, in light of a vid. in the you tube knuckelhead thread.

82498250825182528253

And some new patina pics. I am not sure how I got the thumb print on there.

825482558256

When it got here the edge was getting a little dull. With stropping it came back. But I fatigued the edge to much so I did do a 1.2k sigma stone, 4k water stone progression. I can't believe how easy it was to get it a burr.

Well my time is done with this, so if who ever is next will pm me their addy. I will get this out on tues. (payday)

Pensacola Tiger
06-29-2012, 11:15 PM
Glad you had fun, and thanks for the write up and pics.

Rick

Crothcipt
06-29-2012, 11:17 PM
Ty VM for the pass a round.

add
06-30-2012, 12:10 AM
This one.

Here.

01 ?

Crothcipt
06-30-2012, 12:27 AM
In the thread opener the link goes to
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4911-Pensacola-Tiger-s-Knives?p=113725&viewfull=1#post113725


material is O1 steel, and the scales are ironwood burl.

I am just going off of what was posted.

Justin0505
07-01-2012, 01:14 AM
I decided to do some cubing of a potato, in light of a vid. in the you tube knuckelhead thread.


LOL. :knife: Did you use the "high" or "low" technique? Did you throw half of the potato way? If it took you LESS than 2 passes to get though it, you were doing it wrong...

Oh hey!:

stereo.pete
Crothcipt
Justin0505
SpikeC
JMJones
HHH Knives
EdipisReks
knyfeknerd
El Pescador
obtuse
ThEoRy
Pabloz

That means I'm next! Wooo! PM sent.

Crothcipt
07-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Just made it in time today to get this off. Should be there fri. just because of the holiday.

Justin0505
07-12-2012, 10:37 PM
I was out of town and there was a minor issues with my shipping address so i just got the knife today.
I havent had a chance to cut anything, but I fondled it thoroughly and have big plans for the weekend involving lots of quality time at the cutting board.

Ill post more after. Ill ship the knife oit on Monday or Tuesday, so next person (spike) please pm me the address.

Justin0505
07-17-2012, 06:46 PM
Due to the extra time already spent in transit to me and the fact that I'm headed back out of town this week, I just spent a very intense weekend with the knife and then got it in the mail and on it's way to the next stop (Spike).

Here are my thoughts:

I tried my best not to peek too much at other people's thoughts on this knife so some may be repeats of other people's, but I tried to approach this review with as few preconceptions and biases as possible.

During my time with the knife, I put it though as much cutting as possible: fruit, veg, protein (both cooked and raw). I tried to challenge the edge as much as possible without actually damaging it. I peeled old limes with leathery skin, then did a fine julienne of the skins, then thinly sliced the flesh. I broke down a few melons and a pineapple and fine diced the rind. A few pounds of potatoes, raw beets, radishes, fresh peppers, dried chillies, tomatoes, apples, avocado, a bag of onion, garlic, ginger, a few chicken breasts, a half-dozen strip steaks, a dozen tomatoes, zucchini, cucumber. All and all I'd say I spent maybe 4-5 hours with the knife actually in my hand over a fairly short period of time. -Not quite like living with it for months or a tour though a pro-kitchen, but I feel like I gave it a good workout and got to know it pretty well.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z4b967PC-t0/UAVJSucsUCI/AAAAAAAALLw/HdZqnnDGiWU/s800/IMG_1135.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Drqj1k6Rp1g/UAVMZNNXNiI/AAAAAAAALOY/saQDJZ2yCuE/s1280/IMG_1160.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T3XD9GCEzi4/UAVMp7x57pI/AAAAAAAALOk/_NOMhPnWl8k/s1280/IMG_1162.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v1VBy0cENOk/UAVNOE5vH7I/AAAAAAAALPI/QQflvdg2hlo/s800/IMG_1167.JPG
https://picasaweb.google.com/117600618285187025883/HarnerPassaround#5766100140468156434
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A1WpkGEd8Ks/UAVOAa2r0QI/AAAAAAAALPo/nLdCmZ2zsvo/s800/IMG_1174.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a60f3a7FtZA/UAVOTlAHzyI/AAAAAAAALP8/8KnQ_jn9MdQ/s1280/IMG_1177.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RrHiNLndVkA/UAVN1AUl4-I/AAAAAAAALPc/1Pw3QXa5Gp8/s1280/IMG_1172.JPG



I'll get the simple, obvious, straight-forward stuff out of the way first:

Materials, build quality/ F&F:
As I expected from a custom-level knife from a highly regarded maker, the materials used and the way that they are put together and finished are all top-notch. I won't count the crack in one of the handle scale as a mark against the build quality, but just something that can happen when using natural wood. The crack is very sad though, because the scales are some of the nicest looking iron wood that I've ever seen. Hopefully, it can just be filled with some type of clear epoxy resin.
The real stand-out material-wise though was the steel. This is my first more-than-just-passing encounter with O1, and I was REALLY impressed. Again, I don't have another maker's O1 as a comparison point, but I would have a hard time imagining that anyone could do a better job with the HT as this steel was pretty much exactly what I like: amazingly easy to sharpen, insane "why would anyone aside from eye surgeon actually need an edge this sharp" sharpness potential, very easy to touch-up with good resistance to chipping and good edge retention. It's also worth mentioning that the grind work looked very nice. I know that tall, thin blades like this are very difficult to get even and this one looked and performed very well. While the flatter grind did give up some ground on food release, it made up for it by tracking very straight and precisely though the entire cut(ZERO steering). In that way, it did feel very nakiri / cleaverish.

More on steel, sharpening, and performance:
When I received the knife, it had an edge that felt sharp and fairly toothy / aggressive, but there were some sections that felt duller and out of alignment and that stuttered a little when cutting paper. I tried honing, stropping, and all of my touch-up / re-alignment tricks, but then I started to see what appeared to be a bit of a wire edge. After running through a de-burr routine, I thought that the issues where resolved but stropping quickly raised what felt like another wire edge. What I think was actually happening was that the steel along the edge was just fatigued from use and touch-ups but still too tough to just give up and fall off. So, I felt that I had justification to take the blade to the stones. I didn't think that I needed to remove much steel, so I started with my JKI Takashima Awesedo. This my favorite stone, and I have yet to find a steel that doesn't feel good on it, but the O1 was really exceptional. It cut quickly and easily, gave great feedback, developed very little burr, and got VERY sharp. I decided to see what the steel's potential was so gave it a spin on my JNS Atagoyama. The Atagoyama is not nearly as universally good as the Takashima, but the Harner O1 felt AMAZING on it. This is the best match to this stone that I have found so far. The resulting edge was burr-free and probably the best edge that I've ever achieved directly off of a stone (with no de-burring and/or stropping). The edge sailed though every sharpness test that I tired: 3-finger, tree-topping hair, free-standing folded paper, falling though tomato skin, and being just plain scary.

After my initial sharpening, it certainly didn't need to see a stone again during the work I put it though. It really didn't even "need" a strop, but I gave it a kiss with leather or balsa a few times just to see how it reacted and because it's fun to go from "really sharp" to "stupid sharp" in just a few seconds.

If what you like in a steel is glass-like hardness and super abrasion wear resistance, this is not the steel for you. However, if what you like is steel with a fun personality that "likes" being really sharp, that's resistant to chipping, and quickly forgets mistakes or fatigue, then I have not used a superior combination of steel and HT.

Now for the more subjective matters of personal opinion:

Aesthetics:
I like it. It's certainly not traditional or quite like anything else. But, while a bit extreme, the design is also clearly very purposeful and deliberate. It's an interesting combination of angles and curves and it looks both brutal, yet elegant: like some type of modern fighter-bomber jet. Oh yeah, the steel takes some really electric-looking patinas too.

Design, Ergonomics, and Use:
From pictures, it's obvious that Harner's design is very unique: High-heel, unusual looking curved, high handle, curved spine, drop-tip kiritsuki tip, and a thin, fairly flat grind. I was expecting it to feel maybe like a low, long cleaver with a point, but western handles are very difficult to judge from pictures.
Handle:
It turns out the the handle is much larger than it looks. it's actually about the same length as most western handles, but it's much taller and thicker, especially near the butt were it flares quite considerably. I have large hands and am forever complaining about small, cramped western handles. So, I was happy when I first pulled the knife out of the box.
However, when it first put it in my hand if felt... "odd." -no bad, not uncomfortable, not ultra comfortable, just different.
The curve of the handle was obviously designed with the curve of the palm in mind:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DMTAfW1kBsA/UAVJgfTXVFI/AAAAAAAALL8/xx2xF7oqBmE/s800/IMG_1140.JPG

However, I usually find that the more "ergonomically designed" a handle is, often the more restrictive/ limiting it is in terms of grip variations. I found this to be the case here as well.
for one the cure on the underside of the handle, combined with the dramatic flair towards the butt did 3 things:
1)it forced my finger closer together and closer to the blade:
normal finger spacing:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b2ti2uFF85o/UAVKG_nnPWI/AAAAAAAALMg/CE5zNvuzRD4/s800/IMG_1143.JPG
compressed to fit grip:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZTSyzY6wEeI/UAVKSxXrJEI/AAAAAAAALMs/aPmJhWn0s8c/s800/IMG_1144.JPG

2)it forced my pinkie to be much more open / extended in order to fit around the very tall and thick section at the end:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b9giNX05-pw/UAVJ7IM0B5I/AAAAAAAALMU/iNF3Pz3Y0xo/s800/IMG_1142.JPG

-3)It rotated my grip around the side an under the handle more than I normally hold, so my knuckles where much more "under" the handle
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-H1eMP_M-sDE/UAVKfJBGDbI/AAAAAAAALM4/8IdnceHJLy8/s800/IMG_1146.JPG

So, the end result in terms of hand position was a grip that felt rather far forward on the blade: basically on/ around the balance point vs behind it:
Balance point and where I had to pinch in order to grip the handle:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m7JC-nX9X84/UAVJt4UYvhI/AAAAAAAALMI/GCBuovwyi7s/s800/IMG_1141.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-evAMf3H4qDo/UAVMGMBGveI/AAAAAAAALOM/JT1M0vuO6uE/s800/IMG_1157.JPG


The other unpleasant surprise is that while the handle looks like it supports a high grip, the arch of the handle actually results in a low grip where the heel of my hand flet lower than the spine. Most of my cutting motions come from my arm / elbow with minimum wrist flick. However, this grip angle made my arm feel out of alignment with the blade. I also felt that this girp and wrist angle was not very conducive to the tip-on-the-board rock n' roll motion, which leads me to....

Blade profile, board contact, cutting motions:

Looking at this knife, it appeared to me like it had a fairly flat and "Japanese" profile with a decent flat section near the heel followed by a gently increasing arch though the belly and to the tip. However, when actually held in the hand, the section that contacted the board first, was the belly, not the heel. When positioned in the hand, the heel of the blade actually felt higher than than the mid-point.
Heel contact: (hard to see but there's maybe just 2" or so of contact)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-woBKSyRpii8/UAVK7jct2sI/AAAAAAAALNQ/w36v4mXKK5U/s800/IMG_1151.JPG

Mid: (no section with >1" of contact though the entire curve of the blade between heel and tip)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A5xhTok6ygo/UAVLM0L1VlI/AAAAAAAALNc/OXC9dh_BrLA/s800/IMG_1152.JPG

Front:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-umdvg8FxT1w/UAVLcdJ_cWI/AAAAAAAALNo/wMfirJiZIVg/s800/IMG_1153.JPG

Tip:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fqpuKC09wWo/UAVLqCgYA-I/AAAAAAAALN0/ARJbt2otr0Q/s800/IMG_1154.JPG

How the knife naturally wanted to contact the board:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5UATMHavBck/UAVM33cV8cI/AAAAAAAALOw/f8ISdALSDKw/s800/IMG_1163.JPG

-Draw cuts where perhaps the most difficult as I felt like I had to bend my wrist and lift my arm awkwardly to finish the cut.
-Straight vertical push cuts/ chops where also difficult do to the slim board contact pattern and naturally tendency to hit belly before heel.
+Thrust cuts and diagonal hybrid thrust/push cuts worked well as long as the cut was started well in front of the midpoint / belly
+By far the most efficient and natural cutting motion for the blade geometry was the traditional French, tip-on-board slide-rock-and-roll motion. However, I find that a more rearward-biased grip is most comfortable for this motion, and the handle did not support that hand position well.

Summary:
This is a beautifully made and thoughtfully designed knife with superb materials, construction, f&f. The ergonomics are bold and unconventional, but unfortunately do not work well for me. Again, it's not to say that the design is "BAD," just not for me. The complaints that I had would not prevent me from compensating and adjusting technique for a few 5-10minute quick home cooking sessions, but the fundamental issues became more apparent and more uncomfortable when used for longer sessions. Harner is a custom maker and I'm sure that he would have no problem making a few minor tweaks to the handle design and grip orientation that would transform this design into an ultra-comfortable all-day cruiser of a knife.

I want to give a big thanks to PT aka Rick for doing this pass-around and sharing a really nice and very interesting blade by a maker who's work has long been of interest to me.


full gallery with high res images: https://picasaweb.google.com/117600618285187025883/HarnerPassaround?authuser=0&feat=directlink


EDIT:
Almost forgot: the saya work by Eamon (Buke Cutler) was really excellent. Photo's don't do it justice, it's really clean, simple, perfectly fitted and beautifully made.

obtuse
07-17-2012, 07:32 PM
Wow, great review!

Pensacola Tiger
07-17-2012, 08:13 PM
Thanks for a fantastic review, Justin. For anyone wondering, I've talked with Butch, and he said that he will stand behind his work and replace the scales after the pass around is complete.

Rick

WildBoar
07-17-2012, 08:52 PM
Fantastic review! Great photos, too.

Crothcipt
07-17-2012, 11:11 PM
Wow great review. Taking notes for Maximums blade I should be getting in a couple days.

On the handle, I was looking at how it was fitting and were my hand was the whole time. It wasn't until you wrote about it that I realize what I was noticing. I still look at my Zhen blade with a gyuto handle wanting something different. I think Butch almost hit it on the head for me. I was wanting more of a taller handle up close to the blade, so that when pinching the blade the hand feels more fuller.(?) I still am working out the logistics of what the hell I am trying to say.

Right before I sent it off I just hit it real quick with my 4k stone and stropped. The edge was at a point when I would cut a few times it was needing to be hit again with the leather. I didn't do much of more than the stone and stropping before I sent it off. I apologise for the wire edge. I am glad you were honest to give me feedback. I was more worried about wedging after I hit it with the stone, just because I did a quick following of the bevel and didn't do much thinning as I went.

Justin0505
07-17-2012, 11:58 PM
I don't think that the wire edge was really your fault, I just think that the steel was fatigued. Where more brittle, less tough steel might have chipped or worn down differently, this one had just been knocked out of shape and then re-aligned so many times that it was rolling very easily. You did get the knife very sharp, I just think that steel couldn't hold the fine edge any more and a little more metal needed to be removed.

Crothcipt
07-18-2012, 12:06 AM
Ty for the feed back. Always appreciated.

Johnny.B.Good
07-18-2012, 02:08 AM
Outstanding Justin. Your reviews are the "gold standard" as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for passing this one around Rick, makes for interesting reading.

Justin0505
07-18-2012, 04:11 AM
Yeah, it think that it is very clear that this knife was designed with a particular hand size, grip style and cutting motion in mind. As long a design is made with a purpose, and the finished product meets that purpose, I don't think that it can be called anything other than successful.

Again, it's clear that crack was not your fault, and just something that sometimes happens when dealing with exotic natural material. It's very cool that you're repairing it. I wonder if there is some way to salvage the intact wood from the old scales? Maybe cut into smaller pieces as in-lay or composite in a multi-wood handle? -Really is some of the nicest looking iron wood I've seen.

Anyhew, nice work on the knife and way to stand behind your craft!



Outstanding Justin. Your reviews are the "gold standard" as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for passing this one around Rick, makes for interesting reading.


Thanks for the compliments everyone, I'm glad that you enjoy my ramblings and that I could contribute to Ricks generous pass-around effort.

SpikeC
07-27-2012, 04:03 PM
I am ready to send this puppy on to the next victim! I believe it goes to JMJones, so I need his addy, I sent him a PM. We leave tomorrow to pick up our new to us Airstream trailer in St. David Arizona, so we will be gone for the better part of a week. I would like to get this off today, as it will be another week otherwise.

SpikeC
07-27-2012, 05:18 PM
The scale on the "good" side of the handle has a gap at the front that will allow a little liquid in, this will probably need attention when the cracked scale is fixed.
I found this knife a bit cumbersome for me. The back half is very cleaver like and the front half has a flat area of the edge that gives 2 areas that can be used for chopping, which I found useful. After using it I notices a couple of small chips in the edge toward the back of the blade, and small scratches leading to them. I don't recall running into anything I don't know how they got there. On close inspection the edge appeared to have some wire edges here and there, and with the mini-chips I decided to refresh the edge before packing it up. First I got out my Ozuku Suita and it did not make much of an impression on the edge, so I went to a 4K stone, still not much, and the edge bevel wasn't getting there, so I went to 1K and finally got a burr. I finished it with the Ozuku and a strop on dia. charged leather.
I really like O1 and once you finally get it sharp it holds it quite well.

HHH Knives
08-18-2012, 04:04 PM
The package arrived today safe and sound, Well packed and undamaged! :) More to come! Thanks

HHH Knives
08-27-2012, 10:32 AM
OK so after a full week, I didnt even get to use this knife. I apologize that all I can add to the thread in pictures. Its a beautiful knife.

Life has been CRAZY and rather then holding this one, hoping to find the time to test it and give a review. I sent it along today. :thumbsup:

Justin0505
08-27-2012, 01:00 PM
Nice photography: that patina is really something.

Crothcipt
08-27-2012, 06:01 PM
lol I can still see my thumb print.

EdipisReks
08-29-2012, 05:17 PM
it arrived today here in Cincinnati!

knyfeknerd
09-10-2012, 08:48 PM
Got it today. This is a big boy! I like it so far. Did a little bit of veg with it for my dinner tonight. I can't wait to really put it to use tomorrow. Thanks again for the passaround Rick.

knyfeknerd
09-11-2012, 07:05 PM
Had a heavy prep day and used this bad boy hard. All I can say is that this thing is friggin' awesome! For the amount of work this thing saw today it should be dull as a butterknife, but I swear the edge is basically unaffected.
I love the large height, the length, the profile, the taper, the grind.......I didn't think I'd like it this much.
For someone like me who does large amounts of prep on a regular basis, this is the perfect knife.
I also didn't think I'd like the handle as it appears to be a little awkward or uncomfortable, but the way it forces me to hold the knife is quite comfortable.
The one and ONLY bad thing I can say about this knife is that it isn't mine!!!
I look forward to using this the rest of the week and am already dreading sending it on to the next passaround recipient.
I hope Butch reads this, if not I'm going to PM him and tell him how much I like it.



P.S. Eamon's saya is perfect and fits this knife tighter than OJ's glove.

EdipisReks
09-11-2012, 07:51 PM
i have more thoughts written down, but i liked the knife a lot. much more than i thought i would, when i first opened the package if it were mine, i would thin it behind the edge significantly, though. it can cut way better than it does, and it already cuts nicely. the edge had a few rough spots, and the tip is slightly bird's beaked, but i just didn't have time to fix them, when i had the knife.

l r harner
09-11-2012, 11:09 PM
keep it coming guys
i know its more for outhers to learn but every revew helps me become a better maker too so hold nothing back

Lefty
09-12-2012, 10:10 AM
P.S. Eamon's saya is perfect and fits this knife tighter than OJ's glove.

But, it wasn't OJ's...remember?

knyfeknerd
09-18-2012, 10:05 PM
Just shipped this off to Pesky early this A.M. I missed her so bad at work today. I really appreciate the size of this baby. It doubles as a very large spatula for scooping up your prepped veg, meat, etc. I love a large knife for knocking out large prep!!!
The only things I would do: Round out the choil a little, because the way the handle design has me holding the knife-rubs my finger against the choil with some abrasion.
A little more polish/rounded spine for friction/abrasion purposes.
I noticed some serious sticktion when slicing cucumbers. I don't know if this is because of the large flat surface area, or if a convex grind would help with this at all.
I didn't get to sharpen it, I wish I did......but honestly, it didn't need it. I wish I could comment.
Man, I love this knife. I hope I can own it or one just like it some day.
Thanks Rick for the generous passaround.
Thanks Butch for making such a great blade, seriously my hat is off to you. It's like it was made for ME!!!!!

El Pescador
09-26-2012, 12:05 AM
Just got this knife and my first impression is that this is a prep monster. It is like a weird gyuto-thai cleaver.

Mike Davis
09-26-2012, 01:38 PM
I got to handle this knife before Mario let it go..Beastly!!! Has a cool feel to it though, feels pretty good in hand

El Pescador
10-04-2012, 04:33 PM
SO I have had this thing for a week. My first impression is still prevalent in my mind…this is a prep monster.

I changed my cutting style to maximize performance with this thing. I am a predominately a pull cutter/tip dragger. This knife is WAY too tall to get away with that. I found that this knife’s height tend to favor a push cutter. It also seems to be a pretty good rock chopper. I had no issue with chopping herbs and dicing onions. It also it sturdy enough feeling that I enjoyed whacking up hard squash and melons. It does stick, but now where near as much as my old Mundial 12” Chef. It sucks at the onion test. It just is much more awkward to use thank a much shorter knife.

One thing I disliked about this knife on it arrival was the kirisuke tip. I have grown to appreciate it more though because it shortens the blade and makes it much more manageable. Unfortunately, I feel that this knife is worthless for tip work. The knife is BIG, and the tip was at a weird place to utilize. After I had massacred a tray of late season strawberries, I gave up and excepted that I would need a petty or paring knife handy for hand work. In that respect, I found this this knife fit the roll of a traditional grand chef knife. If it were mine, I’d feel comfortable attacking whole chickens, loping off trout heads, etc.

Like every single Harner Knife I have touched, the fit and finish was impeccable. There is no doubt that this is a Harner. I like the handle. It isn’t polished to the nth degree. There is still a depth there, but it isn’t a museum piece that you’re afraid of picking up and using. It fit my hand well and there aren’t any places that seem to annoyingly rub or poke you as you use it. The other odd thing about the knife is that the handle is above the blade. I thought I might find this annoying in use, but it really made the knife much easier to use due to the leverage advantage. I have to say it is also extremely well balanced. I was able to use this knife for longer periods of time with any fatigue.
All in all, I found this knife a joy to use once I got used to it. Again, this is not an “all-arounder”. I would be perfectly happy using this along with one of Del’s new paring knives. I have to admit, I wasn’t expecting to enjoy it. It just doesn’t look like it would work…too much Shun Ken Onion….but I will admit- I was wrong.

Rick if you could let me know who’s next on the list I will PM them for an address.

Pensacola Tiger
10-17-2012, 06:31 PM
Any updates?

El Pescador
10-17-2012, 07:00 PM
Any updates?

I was slower than I thought getting this off to Obtuse. He should have it later this week.

Pensacola Tiger
10-17-2012, 07:20 PM
Thanks for the update.

obtuse
10-28-2012, 05:06 PM
Hi, I've had the knife for about a week now and I'm ready to send it off tomorrow. I found the knife to be very comfortable to use. The blade forward balance coupled with the large blade height made it feel substantial but not clunky. I used it for some limited prep during the week, mincing herbs and garlic, dicing onions, slicing carrots etc. Even though the knife has a very flat profile, the slight curve in the blade made mincing a breeze. The knife went through onions and carrots with minimal wedging, I think it could use a little thinning behind the edge, but that's more of a sharpening thing. Overall I'm very impressed with Butch's handy work. If I worked in a pro kitchen prepping tons of veggies, this would be a knife I'd like to have in my kit.
Thank you for the opportunity to try this knife.

Pensacola Tiger
10-28-2012, 05:32 PM
Hi, I've had the knife for about a week now and I'm ready to send it off tomorrow. I found the knife to be very comfortable to use. The blade forward balance coupled with the large blade height made it feel substantial but not clunky. I used it for some limited prep during the week, mincing herbs and garlic, dicing onions, slicing carrots etc. Even though the knife has a very flat profile, the slight curve in the blade made mincing a breeze. The knife went through onions and carrots with minimal wedging, I think it could use a little thinning behind the edge, but that's more of a sharpening thing. Overall I'm very impressed with Butch's handy work. If I worked in a pro kitchen prepping tons of veggies, this would be a knife I'd like to have in my kit.
Thank you for the opportunity to try this knife.

You're very welcome. Thanks for the review.

ThEoRy is next on the list, please drop him a PM and let him know you'll be sending it to him.

Rick

ThEoRy
11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
Who's next I'd like to ship her off. Please pm me with shipping details.

Pensacola Tiger
11-27-2012, 10:35 PM
Who's next I'd like to ship her off. Please pm me with shipping details.

Pabloz is next on the list. Drop him a PM, if you would.

Thanks,

Rick

Pabloz
12-04-2012, 09:37 PM
Knife arrived today.
First impressions:
This is one tight knife. F & F is spot on. Geometry is nice and comfortable. It is a realtively tall knife. Patina is forming nicely and the edge it arrived with, I guessing Rick T put on it, is 3 finger testy. The right scale does have a crack in it but does not appear to be bad enough to warrant a re-handel. I'll give it a little run tomorrow on some stuff for home made sushi.
The saya that Eamon made for it fits perfectly and the Ivory pin is really cool. Really nice to see and feel this level of quality all the way around.

More to follow.

PZ

Lefty
12-05-2012, 07:58 AM
I've watched this one from the sidelines, and may just have to ask about jumping in, at the end. Everyone's awesome reviews have me wanting to beat on this knife! :D Honestly, every single Harner I've handled has made me shake my head in amazement. His work is incredible, looks and cuts like nothing else. Really, what more could we ask for?

Don Nguyen
12-05-2012, 08:53 AM
Really, what more could we ask for?

2 Harners...

l r harner
12-05-2012, 09:13 AM
i might know of a guy that has 7 :razz: :)

Lefty
12-05-2012, 09:22 AM
Do I have 5? :D Muahahahahahaha!

Oh, and Rick, I'm in, if you'll have me.

Pensacola Tiger
12-05-2012, 11:18 AM
i might know of a guy that has 7 :razz: :)

Close, but I just sold one ... :biggrin:

Pensacola Tiger
12-05-2012, 11:19 AM
Knife arrived today.
First impressions:
This is one tight knife. F & F is spot on. Geometry is nice and comfortable. It is a realtively tall knife. Patina is forming nicely and the edge it arrived with, I guessing Rick T put on it, is 3 finger testy. The right scale does have a crack in it but does not appear to be bad enough to warrant a re-handel. I'll give it a little run tomorrow on some stuff for home made sushi.
The saya that Eamon made for it fits perfectly and the Ivory pin is really cool. Really nice to see and feel this level of quality all the way around.

More to follow.

PZ

I hope you enjoy your time with it.

Rick

ThEoRy
12-06-2012, 12:57 AM
Got a nexus 7 tablet woohoo! Gonna try to type up a bit of a review here.

A lot has been said about this knife already so I won't spend much time repeating everything. I'll just post my own basic thoughts. This knife is just a prep beast! It's large size makes it a great chopper but it's surprisingly light, nimble and extremely well balanced. You just don't get fatigued easily while wielding this monster. The steel is just great. Sharpens up quick, even and easily. Maintains its edge quite well and responds to stropping nicely. Has a great patina on it so it doesn't react to onions or anything I threw at it.

Overall it's a great example of Butch's work. It's a little different and everyone who saw it said it looked odd. Once you use it though it just makes sense.

Thanks for letting me beat stuff up with this beast, I gave it a good run and now I know why everyone loves Butch's work!

knyfeknerd
12-06-2012, 01:26 AM
Very well said and nice review Rick.

Pabloz
12-09-2012, 12:38 PM
Round 2:
Played with it a little more. I can see how this knife would be great in a production setting. Did everthing I asked of it with ease. My wife loved it also.....kinda scary. If I had to go into battle in the kitchen this would be a great weapon to have. It totally killed the Sushi project.

THANKS AGAIN,

PZ

Pensacola Tiger
12-13-2012, 05:15 PM
It's back home, with a bunch more patina than it had when it left. I hope everyone who had a chance to use it enjoyed the experience.

Thanks to everyone who shared their opinions.

Rick

Crothcipt
12-13-2012, 05:41 PM
The thanks goes to you, sir. I would have never tried such a thing without you making this available, and letting my fondness for Kitchen knives grow just a little more.

Pensacola Tiger
04-28-2013, 08:36 AM
I just wanted to give you guys an update on the knife. As you know, the scales had a hairline crack in one of them, and Butch generously offered to replace the scales after the passaround.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zpse60407de.jpg

So, off to the "spa" it went. Since replacing the scales involves getting the tang squeaky clean so the epoxy will adhere correctly, I opted to have Butch remove the patina that you guys had lovingly produced during the passaround.

Here are some WIP pics. The scales are stabilized redwood from Burl Source.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zpsfebb1601.jpg

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zps2bb3a35a.jpg

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zps1f957e80.jpg

More to come ...

Jmadams13
04-28-2013, 08:59 AM
Butch had it with him the other day before fixing it and brought it by the bistro for me to gander at. Only held it for a few seconds, but fell in love instantly. He does amazing work.

knyfeknerd
04-28-2013, 10:40 AM
That is such an awesome knife! Participating in this passaround made me a true believer of Mr. Harner's work. I now luckily own that Butch Nakiri in CPM-154. Hey Rick, my offer still stands to buy this baby from you -should you ever want to part with it!

Lefty
04-28-2013, 11:25 AM
Butch is a robot freak machine. I love the guy.

Pensacola Tiger
04-28-2013, 12:57 PM
Okay, here's the latest WIP.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zpsc55d1c78.jpg

jigert
04-28-2013, 01:46 PM
Aw, man! This knife... I mean.. I just... Yup.

Jmadams13
04-28-2013, 02:03 PM
Butch is a robot freak machine. I love the guy.

He was also telling me how busy he's been and how much steel he has been going through. He is a robot, lol


Handle is looking great too!!

Pensacola Tiger
04-29-2013, 05:24 PM
It's complete! My thanks to Butch.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zps36f445c4.jpg

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Harner%20Kiritsuke-Gyuto/file_zpsdaea4939.jpg

jigert
05-02-2013, 02:47 PM
Looks great, Rick! Nice piece of wood Butch put on there.

Pensacola Tiger
05-02-2013, 03:16 PM
Thanks. I picked up that block from Burl Source a while ago, and have been waiting for the right knife.


Looks great, Rick! Nice piece of wood Butch put on there.

Lefty
05-02-2013, 07:18 PM
I say this is the right knife. :)