PDA

View Full Version : Stainless at restaurants



David Metzger
06-06-2012, 12:38 PM
I was just wondering what the current government policies are with non stainless knives (carbon) in restaurants and whether health inspectors care.

ajhuff
06-06-2012, 01:47 PM
I don't have direct experience but we did get dinged on a health inspection for having dry towels on table. He told us only towels in sani buckets were allowed. Any dry towels had to be paper towels. Kind of put a kabosh on keeping the ol Sab wiped off and dry.

-AJ

Eamon Burke
06-06-2012, 01:54 PM
I just used the paper towels from the hand sink behind me. I told the inspector that it was disgusting to expect people to use knives over and over without wiping them down.

He suggested we keep them in a bucket full of water and sanitizer.

I have little respect for health codes.

chinacats
06-06-2012, 02:02 PM
He suggested we keep them in a bucket full of water and sanitizer.


He is obviously not a member here...

As to restaurant regs, I believe they vary by state...where I live, I don't think you are supposed to have any non-nsf anything including knives.

kalaeb
06-06-2012, 03:39 PM
My health inspector and my third party auditor will not allow carbon knives. I am not sure they have a reason, but just they "look" dirty.

van Zanten
06-06-2012, 03:41 PM
when cutting cabbage and onions, carbon steel knifes tend to loose a bit of the patina to the vegetables. I think it is an iron oxide, and is not harmfull. I would like to know if there are any rules about this aspect.

Line cooked
06-06-2012, 03:47 PM
I think the fear is pitting. If a knife rusts and the surface pits you run a greater risk of harboring bacteria.....that is just a guess.

chinacats
06-06-2012, 03:48 PM
I would like to know if there are any rules about this aspect.

Really need to ask your local health dept or whoever does the inspections in your area. As to the practical aspect, if it was unhealthy, people would've been sick until the advent of stainless and there would be no more carbon knives.

Korin_Mari
06-06-2012, 03:59 PM
I assume carbon knives are allowed, no? Considering how chefs walk into Korin all the time for carbon knives. I thought the government had strict laws about wooden handles on cruise ships and what not.

I've also seen sushi chefs those antimicrobial food service towels, but I don't know if they use it on their knives.

Eamon Burke
06-06-2012, 04:10 PM
When I took the test for my Food Handler's card for the Sushi Bar I worked at(it was a new county), they had an extra section that was just about sushi. It pretty much was like "Don't use rice from yesterday, that's not allowed. Other than that, you just do your crazy thing and don't talk about it."

There are things that, given enough time, the regulators may realize don't matter at all. As I've said in a video before, something has gone terribly wrong with the health inspectors think this is a good place to prepare things people will put INSIDE their bodies:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BgPNZI-zRAU/TrYUnmHQiCI/AAAAAAAAATk/Qkcl84ADBps/s576/2011-10-30%252012.44.15.jpg
(from a place I worked at, that got a Zero on Health Inspection)

And yet this is considered HAZARDOUS:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aX5bgUSIGMY/TrYU24OujuI/AAAAAAAAATs/FI2wrWPC6Go/s720/2011-10-29%252017.13.36.jpg
OMG! Carbon steel! Wood handle! End grain board! Machi on the knife! You murderer!

Korin_Mari
06-06-2012, 04:29 PM
When I took the test for my Food Handler's card for the Sushi Bar I worked at(it was a new county), they had an extra section that was just about sushi. It pretty much was like "Don't use rice from yesterday, that's not allowed. Other than that, you just do your crazy thing and don't talk about it."

There are things that, given enough time, the regulators may realize don't matter at all. As I've said in a video before, something has gone terribly wrong with the health inspectors think this is a good place to prepare things people will put INSIDE their bodies:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BgPNZI-zRAU/TrYUnmHQiCI/AAAAAAAAATk/Qkcl84ADBps/s576/2011-10-30%252012.44.15.jpg
(from a place I worked at, that got a Zero on Health Inspection)

And yet this is considered HAZARDOUS:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aX5bgUSIGMY/TrYU24OujuI/AAAAAAAAATs/FI2wrWPC6Go/s720/2011-10-29%252017.13.36.jpg
OMG! Carbon steel! Wood handle! End grain board! Machi on the knife! You murderer!

LOLOL So true. But what scares me the most though is how some people think that "don't leave your knives wet" means "don't wash your knives." We have gotten the smelliest knives in for sharpening, where there will be little pieces of food left on the blade or you can just touch the knife your hand will smell like fish for HOURS.

... yea, I have no plans to go to their restaurants anytime soon.

DwarvenChef
06-06-2012, 04:42 PM
I've been lucky most of the time, when inspectors checked my table and my knives they where happy to see clean gear. Never mentioned a thing about my CCK cleaver, dry towel, or other no-no's (by speculation). I think it has alot to so with the individaul inspector as well as the cities past reputation for restraunt "health". If the city got publicly embarased in the news I'm sure the inspectors would be anal about every little detail for quite some time :p

tk59
06-06-2012, 04:46 PM
When I took the test for my Food Handler's card for the Sushi Bar I worked at(it was a new county), they had an extra section that was just about sushi. It pretty much was like "Don't use rice from yesterday, that's not allowed. Other than that, you just do your crazy thing and don't talk about it."...:rofl2:

ajhuff
06-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Eamon, one difference might be those Dexters can go through the dish washer and the inspectors like that.?

-AJ

obtuse
06-06-2012, 07:39 PM
When I took the test for my Food Handler's card for the Sushi Bar I worked at(it was a new county), they had an extra section that was just about sushi. It pretty much was like "Don't use rice from yesterday, that's not allowed. Other than that, you just do your crazy thing and don't talk about it."

There are things that, given enough time, the regulators may realize don't matter at all. As I've said in a video before, something has gone terribly wrong with the health inspectors think this is a good place to prepare things people will put INSIDE their bodies:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BgPNZI-zRAU/TrYUnmHQiCI/AAAAAAAAATk/Qkcl84ADBps/s576/2011-10-30%252012.44.15.jpg
(from a place I worked at, that got a Zero on Health Inspection)

And yet this is considered HAZARDOUS:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aX5bgUSIGMY/TrYU24OujuI/AAAAAAAAATs/FI2wrWPC6Go/s720/2011-10-29%252017.13.36.jpg
OMG! Carbon steel! Wood handle! End grain board! Machi on the knife! You murderer!

So true... I've removed prep stations and poly boards from restaurants here that seems to have 10 years of meat goo buildup and smelled like the dumpster in an institutional kitchen.

Eamon Burke
06-06-2012, 07:41 PM
Eamon, one difference might be those Dexters can go through the dish washer and the inspectors like that.?

-AJ

Yep, that's the main idea. You can tell, the dishwasher cleans them really good.

Dave Martell
06-06-2012, 08:57 PM
But what scares me the most though is how some people think that "don't leave your knives wet" means "don't wash your knives." We have gotten the smelliest knives in for sharpening, where there will be little pieces of food left on the blade or you can just touch the knife your hand will smell like fish for HOURS.



So true!!! :puke:

keithsaltydog
06-07-2012, 03:57 AM
I've only used carbons at work many yrs.Gyutos,cleavers & Yanagi's.As far as I know no body ever got sick eating food I prepared.Always use FIFO & food safety guidelines.Most people get sick from spoiled food left out too long or reusing yesterdays prep.We installed bathroom hand sanitizers for all employee's to use.

In chinatown Carbon Cleavers are used alot.Asians here in Hawaii got me into carbons.

My rule for going out to eat is skip slow establishments esp. if they have large menu's.Still it's a crapshoot all it takes is one person trying to use up old stock that enough bacteria has had time to florish.

JohnnyChance
06-07-2012, 12:42 PM
When I took the test for my Food Handler's card for the Sushi Bar I worked at(it was a new county), they had an extra section that was just about sushi. It pretty much was like "Don't use rice from yesterday, that's not allowed. Other than that, you just do your crazy thing and don't talk about it."

There are things that, given enough time, the regulators may realize don't matter at all. As I've said in a video before, something has gone terribly wrong with the health inspectors think this is a good place to prepare things people will put INSIDE their bodies:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BgPNZI-zRAU/TrYUnmHQiCI/AAAAAAAAATk/Qkcl84ADBps/s576/2011-10-30%252012.44.15.jpg
(from a place I worked at, that got a Zero on Health Inspection)

And yet this is considered HAZARDOUS:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aX5bgUSIGMY/TrYU24OujuI/AAAAAAAAATs/FI2wrWPC6Go/s720/2011-10-29%252017.13.36.jpg
OMG! Carbon steel! Wood handle! End grain board! Machi on the knife! You murderer!

Proper care is proper care. That end grain board would not look so good if used every day in a pro kitchen. When equipment gets worn out, you have to repair or replace it. If you can't take care of a plastic board, what makes you think that place and its employees can take care of an endgrain board? If you can't afford to resurface or replace a plastic board, you won't be replacing $$$ end grain boards either.

In regards to the towel issue, the only thing I have heard is that any wet towels have to be in sanitizer buckets. Dry towels are the only ones allowed out on your counter, but no towels wet or dry allowed on your board.

Eamon Burke
06-07-2012, 01:11 PM
The point I was making was that the focus is not on proper care, only on "acceptable materials". You can neglect a tool that has crud encrusted in it, filth in all the ribs of the handle grips, gouges and stains, etc etc...and you are doing great. A brand new knife with a gap at the machi or a ho wood handle, you'll have to have a talk with the inspector...he almost demerited the sushi bar I worked at for using a Doi Yanagiba.

clayton
06-07-2012, 06:11 PM
Unfortunately it is always easier to regulate by concrete rules rather than degrees.

Machi/no machi is easy. Deciding if something is too dirty, acceptably dirty, or just "patina-ed" takes a lot more. Not that it is right of course, but it would take a lot more training...

slowtyper
06-08-2012, 12:13 PM
Never had any inspector question towels, knives, anything of the sort in Canada.

echerub
06-08-2012, 12:23 PM
I work with a former public health inspector (PHI) right now, and I've heard stories of people out there doing really stupid crap. Things like washing veggies for salad in water that they just took raw chickens out of. Add to that the fact that PHIs know microbes and diseases, not cooking and kitchens and you'll get a lot of strict/blind application of rules.

JohnnyChance
06-08-2012, 01:04 PM
Pretty much every inspector I have ever dealt with (and the one I know personally) check for the basics: temperatures, proper care, proper procedure, proper training of staff. If while spending time in your kitchen and looking at these things, they get the feeling that your staff is not properly trained (or disciplined) or that reasonable proper care is not being taken with your equipment, they go to the technicalities and start knocking off points. If they get the feeling that your operation is running well, small violations are usually pointed out, but not recorded. Most of our inspectors are reasonable, understand that you have a business to run, and that small slip ups and technicalities do not mean you are running an unsafe restaurant and causing people to be sick.

That plastic board should have been a violation, just because it is plastic does not mean it can't also be a violation. You have a bad inspector, which is common. And if you had a wood board instead, I would expect it to be in similar or worse shape, and that board would have been a violation anyway, not because it was wood, but because of the condition. You can't reasonably make a case for allowing wood boards in a pro environment if you have shown you can't take care of a plastic one.

Still-edo
06-08-2012, 01:43 PM
Things like washing veggies for salad in water that they just took raw chickens out of

Thats a risky way to add some umami to your salad.

El Pescador
06-08-2012, 04:15 PM
Thats a risky way to add some umami to your salad.

LMFAO!!!!!!