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DwarvenChef
06-06-2012, 06:27 PM
Ok with my last purchase I have raised my spending bar a bit, and I found I was ok so far with the ammount. Now that I have some solid traditional knives in my "set", Watanabe Ajikiri, Knousuki Usuba, and now a Kochi Yanagi, I'm back to looking/researching my Deba for the traditional KU set.

What I need are new guide lines on what I should be looking for as far as physical atributes. Length and thickness and all. So here is what I will most likely be using it on, Salmon 5-10 range, Bass, trout, and so on. Maybe a few halabut but those may be just purchased as fillets. This is going to be a Home Use knife and do not plan on taking it to work so I will not need to push the size to accept the bigger fish.

As with all my knives, Carbon steel is a must, handmade, and of course KU. These are secondary to this post as I really just want to see what Deba styles would best suit my needs. Then I can start looking for makers that specialize in these areas to make the deba (and for some reason I see Jon rubbing his hands together :p ).

So please post your likes and dislikes of the different designs of Deba :)

phan1
06-06-2012, 10:42 PM
To be honest, Deba seem to be very consistent between brands. I've never seen many different designs in a Deba; a Deba just tends to be a Deba... Which is why I don't like spending too much on such a knife that's already so expensive, and I'm certainly not going beyond white #2 on a deba.

But if you're talking about mioroshi deba vs regular deba, I always vote regular deba as the extra heft and thickness of a regular deba helps. I am 100% against all "inbetweener" knives like mioroshi deba or kiritsuke. They don't do anything as well as a real yanagi, a real usuba, or a real deba,

GlassEye
06-06-2012, 11:25 PM
I would say get a standard deba, maybe choose a slightly larger size because you have the ajikiri to handle the small tasks, I would imagine you could order kurouchi from just about any maker you wanted. If in the same situation I would just give Jon a price and size and see what can be had.


I am 100% against all "inbetweener" knives like mioroshi deba or kiritsuke. They don't do anything as well as a real yanagi, a real usuba, or a real deba,
I have to disagree with this. I see kiritsuke as the single-bevel equivalent to the gyuto, it is one knife that can do everything, but other task-specific knives may do those tasks better. I don't see much reason for mioroshi over hondeba, except maybe specific settings in which it might be a better choice.

JBroida
06-06-2012, 11:39 PM
kiritsuke is a combination of yanagiba and usuba... not quite a gyuto ;)

ThEoRy
06-07-2012, 12:13 AM
To be honest, Deba seem to be very consistent between brands. I've never seen many different designs in a Deba; a Deba just tends to be a Deba... Which is why I don't like spending too much on such a knife that's already so expensive, and I'm certainly not going beyond white #2 on a deba.

But if you're talking about mioroshi deba vs regular deba, I always vote regular deba as the extra heft and thickness of a regular deba helps. I am 100% against all "inbetweener" knives like mioroshi deba or kiritsuke. They don't do anything as well as a real yanagi, a real usuba, or a real deba,

I can politely disagree with the second part there. For one, my mioroshi deba is 6mm at the spine so I'm not missing much if anything in thickness there. For another my mioroshi is actually better than my yanagi at slicing certain proteins because of the extra weight. Lastly, I can filet any size fish large or small extremely cleanly with my mioroshi. Maybe no better but also no worse than a regular deba. Remember though, 90% is the person holding the tool, the other 10% is the tool itself. :D

JBroida
06-07-2012, 12:16 AM
at 240mm, you are missing about 1/2 the thickness of a deba in your knife ;)

that being said, glad its working out for you.

ThEoRy
06-07-2012, 12:27 AM
Mine's 270, but what I'm saying is, am I really "missing" anything. I whack through bones like they aren't even there. Sometimes I get a chip but that will happen with any knife with that sort of treatment from time to time.

Also Jon, hold a Gesshin Hide 210mm Deba for me. I will be getting one soon!

JBroida
06-07-2012, 12:32 AM
whoops... my bad. I thought it was 240. Sorry.

Anyways, consider this... think about the kind of fish a 270mm deba would be used on. I doubt you are breaking down those kind of fish with your mioroshi. Am i right. More than likely, you are breaking down fish that you might be breaking down with something like a 210mm deba. In that case, you're right about not "missing" anything. I do understand where you are coming from on this, but i think you can also see where i am coming from.

Roger that on the deba.

-Jon

GlassEye
06-07-2012, 01:08 AM
kiritsuke is a combination of yanagiba and usuba... not quite a gyuto ;)

Kiritsuke is one of my most often used knives, I definitely realize it is not even close to gyuto. I knew my wording did not quite express what I wanted to say, but I meant to say much the same as Theory; "Maybe no better but also no worse than". I was trying to say that the gyuto can perform slicer tasks, utility tasks, the full range of uses with one knife; kiritsuke performs yanagiba tasks, usuba tasks, or even mukimono tasks in one knife. The versatility of kiritsuke is similar to the versatility of gyuto, I did not intend to compare the knives, but the amount of versatility that "in-betweeners" (mioroshi, gyuto, kiritsuke) can offer.

Back to deba...

ThEoRy
06-07-2012, 02:14 AM
whoops... my bad. I thought it was 240. Sorry.

Anyways, consider this... think about the kind of fish a 270mm deba would be used on. I doubt you are breaking down those kind of fish with your mioroshi. Am i right. More than likely, you are breaking down fish that you might be breaking down with something like a 210mm deba. In that case, you're right about not "missing" anything. I do understand where you are coming from on this, but i think you can also see where i am coming from.

Roger that on the deba.

-Jon

I see what you mean about a true deba at 270mm. How thick would that thing even be? While I'm not carcking $750,000 tuna, I do however break down large fish up to 100lbs or so. Even skinning 25-35lb salmon would be neigh impossible with only a 210mm. I wouldn't do a lot of what I do with only a 210. I do need one however for the sub 30lb fish that we also do quite regularly. A lot of what I do could be done with a 210 deba AND another knife just for the skinning but I like to just use one knife for both tasks.

Just today for example I did 3 large salmon, 2 large red snapper, 1 medium Chilean sea bass and 6 small grouper. I would have liked to use a 210 on just the grouper really. While the snapper were only 16 lbs each, they were very wide. The dish we are currently doing is a potato wrapped snapper so I have to remove the skin. A 210 is not going to be able to do that on that fish nor the salmon I did today. Break it down, sure no biggie, it might even be better at it for sure, but then I gotta grab my yanagi or suji for skinning.

Although I did learn to clean fish with larger knives so it's just natural for me to use one, it is time for another addition to the family soon. A 210 would be perfect for me since I would be able to wield it on anything under my 270s range. I won't need a smaller deba for even smaller fish since I'm just used to using bigger knives anyway I guess. At least that's what I'll tell myself for as long as I can.

DwarvenChef
06-07-2012, 03:51 AM
If I'm reading this right a 210 deba should be more than enough for my 10lb fish range? Or would a 180 be better in the 10lb range. Or is the 180 to close to the 120 Ajikiri in size and usefulness? At home I don't mind the need for 2 knives as I cook for fun and don't worry about efficientcy

I'm gauging the heft and feel off my Watanabe 210 Kaibou, I'm thinking it's like a mioroshi deba, would that be accurate?

The hekler
06-07-2012, 11:30 AM
I see what you mean about a true deba at 270mm. How thick would that thing even be?


I have a regular deba, fairly certain it's either 270 or 300mm and at the spine it's 9mm thick. I bought it off the classifieds here because it was super reasonable for what it was, to learn deba skills and to learn single bevel sharpening on something then my 300mm yangi. It may be a little unwieldly but not nearly as much as you would imagine with the weight/length, really alot of fun.

stereo.pete
06-07-2012, 11:36 AM
I have a regular deba, fairly certain it's either 270 or 300mm and at the spine it's 9mm thick. I bought it off the classifieds here because it was super reasonable for what it was, to learn deba skills and to learn single bevel sharpening on something then my 300mm yangi. It may be a little unwieldly but not nearly as much as you would imagine with the weight/length, really alot of fun.

Pics or it doesn't exist :just kidding: , but seriously I would love to see some pictures of said deba.

GlassEye
06-07-2012, 11:44 AM
I have a regular deba, fairly certain it's either 270 or 300mm and at the spine it's 9mm thick. I bought it off the classifieds here because it was super reasonable for what it was, to learn deba skills and to learn single bevel sharpening on something then my 300mm yangi. It may be a little unwieldly but not nearly as much as you would imagine with the weight/length, really alot of fun.

I would guess that to be one of the thinner deba types. My 195mm deba is 9-10mm thick on the spine above the heel.

phan1
06-07-2012, 06:36 PM
If I'm reading this right a 210 deba should be more than enough for my 10lb fish range? Or would a 180 be better in the 10lb range. Or is the 180 to close to the 120 Ajikiri in size and usefulness? At home I don't mind the need for 2 knives as I cook for fun and don't worry about efficientcy

I'm gauging the heft and feel off my Watanabe 210 Kaibou, I'm thinking it's like a mioroshi deba, would that be accurate?

I think 210 deba is just fine for 10lb fish. I do Atlantic salmon with a 210 no problem, and it's still pretty nimble enough to do smaller fish as well.

And I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on these "tweener" knives. I think they're awful knives that don't work as well as the standard three: usuba, yanagi, deba. For what it's worth, I rarely (never actually) see any serious sushi guys using such knives. Users of the kiritsuke and mioroshi are all kitchen guys...

brainsausage
06-07-2012, 10:09 PM
I think 210 deba is just fine for 10lb fish. I do Atlantic salmon with a 210 no problem, and it's still pretty nimble enough to do smaller fish as well.

And I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on these "tweener" knives. I think they're awful knives that don't work as well as the standard three: usuba, yanagi, deba. For what it's worth, I rarely (never actually) see any serious sushi guys using such knives. Users of the kiritsuke and mioroshi are all kitchen guys...

I'm confused as to your distinction between 'serious sushi guys' and 'kitchen guys'...

The hekler
06-07-2012, 11:33 PM
Pics or it doesn't exist :just kidding: , but seriously I would love to see some pictures of said deba.


Alas I am away from my knives at the moment. Stationed down in Pensacola with the navy while my knives are all locked up in New Jersey which is why I can't remember the exact size of said deba. I do know that I wouldn't want to have it any thicker though because as long and as thick as it is it is quite heavy, never actually put it on a scale but I wouldn't be surprise if it was almost 2lbs... Again don't quote me as I am going on memories from when I last held it in November, but it certainly is a beast.


PS a few minutes with the search box and I found the original Classifieds ad, turns out it was a 270 and yup about 9mm thick at the spine pics included.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/2854-Unagisaki-270-deba-Tadatsuna-300-gyuto

stereo.pete
06-08-2012, 01:05 AM
Alas I am away from my knives at the moment. Stationed down in Pensacola with the navy while my knives are all locked up in New Jersey which is why I can't remember the exact size of said deba. I do know that I wouldn't want to have it any thicker though because as long and as thick as it is it is quite heavy, never actually put it on a scale but I wouldn't be surprise if it was almost 2lbs... Again don't quote me as I am going on memories from when I last held it in November, but it certainly is a beast.


PS a few minutes with the search box and I found the original Classifieds ad, turns out it was a 270 and yup about 9mm thick at the spine pics included.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/2854-Unagisaki-270-deba-Tadatsuna-300-gyuto


Thanks, that is a real beauty of a knife.

DwarvenChef
06-08-2012, 02:23 AM
I can understand the purest issue just fine, but alas I am not a sushi guy so I'll be ok as a kitchen guy :)

I've used Curtis's Carter Mioroshi deba and found it rather nice but I have not tried any others. I have played with a Deba or two but that was so long ago i don't recall any details.

That said, would a mioroshi serve me well sence I'm not really doing sushi on a regular basis... On the other hand if I'm using the Mioroshi to fully process my fish I wouldn't be using my Koshi yanagi... that would be a bad thing...

Ok I'm on the traditional Deba track again... :p

schanop
06-08-2012, 07:34 PM
As a home cook who don't have a need to break down fish bigger than 3kg on a regular basis, I now feel that my cheapie 210 deba is way beyond the need. Although its heft comes in handy when splitting big snapper head. I have a 180mm on order, and this 210 will then be a beater as lobster splitter etc.

For small fish, which is what I handle most of the time, am loving my little ajikiri/kodeba, as well as 195 mioroshi.

phan1
06-09-2012, 01:32 AM
That's what I'm saying man! You got a Koshi yanagi already, so why would I recommend a mioroshi for? But of course it's your decision and there are lots of credible people on these boards that will give you differing opinions. It's no different from getting a 2nd opinion from a different doctor. But there are some really hard boned fish like snapper that would benefit from a deba, a knife that is nearly twice the weight of a mioroshi. That's a big difference, so while I can't guarantee you which one is right for you, I can sure as hell guarantee that you would prefer one over the other. And considering the price of such knives, this becomes a pretty big decision. Big enough to drive on down to JKI and see for yourself. :) And you don't have to be a serious sushi guy to have a well rounded set of knives

As for serious sushi guys vs kitchen guys, I've already gone over the distinction. One uses usuba, deba, and yanagi. The other has a wierd collection of yo-debas, kiritsukes, petty-sized debas, sujihikis, and whatever other cool looking gizmos knife makers are coming up with. :p

Deckhand
06-09-2012, 01:57 AM
Love all the discussion. My next deba will be an exact replica of theory's mioroshi deba. I will have no regrets.

schanop
06-09-2012, 02:09 AM
Can we leave petty-sized debas alone? I love my ajikiri and kodeba.

Aji is quite fresh, abundance, and cheap around here, although it usually isn't as big as some at Japanese market.

DwarvenChef
06-09-2012, 06:37 AM
I like my Ajikiri for pan fish. Works great on bluegill :)

Deckhand
06-09-2012, 11:09 AM
I like my Ajikiri for pan fish. Works great on bluegill :)
And don't forget shaving.:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_9ymiBnytM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

brainsausage
06-09-2012, 12:17 PM
That's what I'm saying man! You got a Koshi yanagi already, so why would I recommend a mioroshi for? But of course it's your decision and there are lots of credible people on these boards that will give you differing opinions. It's no different from getting a 2nd opinion from a different doctor. But there are some really hard boned fish like snapper that would benefit from a deba, a knife that is nearly twice the weight of a mioroshi. That's a big difference, so while I can't guarantee you which one is right for you, I can sure as hell guarantee that you would prefer one over the other. And considering the price of such knives, this becomes a pretty big decision. Big enough to drive on down to JKI and see for yourself. :) And you don't have to be a serious sushi guy to have a well rounded set of knives

As for serious sushi guys vs kitchen guys, I've already gone over the distinction. One uses usuba, deba, and yanagi. The other has a wierd collection of yo-debas, kiritsukes, petty-sized debas, sujihikis, and whatever other cool looking gizmos knife makers are coming up with. :p

I thought you were referring to guys working in the same restaurant. My bad.

Deckhand
06-09-2012, 04:17 PM
I thought you were referring to guys working in the same restaurant. My bad.

No I think what he is saying is Iron chef Morimoto and Iron chef Sakai are not serious sushi guys because they use sujihikis. We must warn Japan if it isn't too late so their national sushi treasure Sukiyabashi Jiro doesn't touch anything but usuba,deba, or yanagi and becomes relegated as just a kitchen guy.:scratchhead::scared4:

DwarvenChef
06-09-2012, 05:14 PM
And don't forget shaving.:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_9ymiBnytM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

LOL thats my Takeda ajikiri :p

I was refering to my Watanabe single bevel ajikiri :p

Deckhand
06-09-2012, 05:27 PM
Glad you saw that. I couldn't resist. It's a classic:D

brainsausage
06-10-2012, 11:37 PM
No I think what he is saying is Iron chef Morimoto and Iron chef Sakai are not serious sushi guys because they use sujihikis. We must warn Japan if it isn't too late so their national sushi treasure Sukiyabashi Jiro doesn't touch anything but usuba,deba, or yanagi and becomes relegated as just a kitchen guy.:scratchhead::scared4:

See, my first response(in my head that is) was- is he referring to the prep crews versus the line in sushi restaurants? Then I thought maybe he means yakitori joints (or ramen, or whatever else) versus sushi joints? And then I thought: most of these knives are based on years of very extensive experience with very specific foods. Do you mean to tell me that no 'real' sushi chefs use takobiki's? They're just made as an item of curiousity for gullible westerners? I can understand the concept of mastering the basics on certain knives. But why are there so many of these very specialized knives out there? Because they are useful would be my guess. I dunno. I'm just an uneducated gaijin...

Deckhand
06-10-2012, 11:58 PM
See, my first response(in my head that is) was- is he referring to the prep crews versus the line in sushi restaurants? Then I thought maybe he means yakitori joints (or ramen, or whatever else) versus sushi joints? And then I thought: most of these knives are based on years of very extensive experience with very specific foods. Do you mean to tell me that no 'real' sushi chefs use takobiki's? They're just made as an item of curiousity for gullible westerners? I can understand the concept of mastering the basics on certain knives. But why are there so many of these very specialized knives out there? Because they are useful would be my guess. I dunno. I'm just an uneducated gaijin...:D

GlassEye
06-11-2012, 12:29 AM
See, my first response(in my head that is) was- is he referring to the prep crews versus the line in sushi restaurants? Then I thought maybe he means yakitori joints (or ramen, or whatever else) versus sushi joints? And then I thought: most of these knives are based on years of very extensive experience with very specific foods. Do you mean to tell me that no 'real' sushi chefs use takobiki's? They're just made as an item of curiousity for gullible westerners? I can understand the concept of mastering the basics on certain knives. But why are there so many of these very specialized knives out there? Because they are useful would be my guess. I dunno. I'm just an uneducated gaijin...

I have been pondering this subject quite a bit. One really has to understand the expanse of Japanese cuisine and the history of the food and culture (to some extent), to understand how the common styles of traditional Japanese knives have developed, and existed for quite some time. There is so, so much more than just sushi to Japanese cuisine, and a specialized knife for each task; deba, usuba, yanagiba can have many uses outside of sushiya. Why can't a serious sushi guy use kiritsuke or mioroshi deba, or a serious yakitori guy use a petty, etc. Many serious sushi guys already use their yanagiba to do usuba work to save time, how would it be wrong if they used a knife that did both (kiritsuke) a little better?

brainsausage
06-11-2012, 01:43 AM
I have been pondering this subject quite a bit. One really has to understand the expanse of Japanese cuisine and the history of the food and culture (to some extent), to understand how the common styles of traditional Japanese knives have developed, and existed for quite some time. There is so, so much more than just sushi to Japanese cuisine, and a specialized knife for each task; deba, usuba, yanagiba can have many uses outside of sushiya. Why can't a serious sushi guy use kiritsuke or mioroshi deba, or a serious yakitori guy use a petty, etc. Many serious sushi guys already use their yanagiba to do usuba work to save time, how would it be wrong if they used a knife that did both (kiritsuke) a little better?

I suppose the only issue would be if you worked in a very regimented kitchen. But it's my understanding that quite a few of these knives take many hours of use and training to fully master. Especially the kiritsuke. The comparably lackadaisacal style of knife work that the majority of us western chefs practice( not all of course, and I'm speaking in broad terms of comparison ), using typically just a crappy profiled 'chef' knife and a parer, make it a little harder to conceive of the level of training that goes into learning to use some of these very specialized knives. All that being said- there is a very specific reason that they exist: because they lead to a more precise finished product. Although in the same token- tell any guy who knows how to properly wield a 8.5x4" chuka that he needs 3 knives to do proper prep, and he'll probably cleaver-slap you on the ear;) I've used my CCK 1303 (I think? It's the long one, about 240-270mm) to supreme oranges with. Just had to choke wayyyy up on the spine. Would it have been easier with a petty? Of course, but my kit was downstairs and we needed those damn supremes now! My point is that, 'real' chefs use the knives they have on hand, master them, and aren't afraid to learn new techniques with different styles of knives. Knowing full well that it will improve their overall technique and lead to a fuller representation of the cuisine that they are trying to implement. I think this ethic extends to every aspect of food. Authenticity is in the eye of the beholder in many regards IMHO:D

Deckhand
06-11-2012, 12:39 PM
I have been pondering this subject quite a bit. One really has to understand the expanse of Japanese cuisine and the history of the food and culture (to some extent), to understand how the common styles of traditional Japanese knives have developed, and existed for quite some time. There is so, so much more than just sushi to Japanese cuisine, and a specialized knife for each task; deba, usuba, yanagiba can have many uses outside of sushiya. Why can't a serious sushi guy use kiritsuke or mioroshi deba, or a serious yakitori guy use a petty, etc. Many serious sushi guys already use their yanagiba to do usuba work to save time, how would it be wrong if they used a knife that did both (kiritsuke) a little better?

This has really turned out to be a positive discussion. It is my understanding kiritsuke is only used by master chefs in Japan. As you are saying knives are very specialized like an ajikiri for Horse mackerel. I am not sure but I thought funayuki knives were used by fisherman in a specific region as an all purpose knife. I am sure some knives were specific to regions as well as some knives to specific tasks. Jon or Mari probably have the best knowledge of information on this subject. I have seen a list on the Internet that was lacking and the Wikipedia also was lacking. It would be great if we had a sticky made by an individual or group stating uses and regions more specifically. It is definitely a subject we are all passionate about.

mhlee
06-11-2012, 01:33 PM
I have been pondering this subject quite a bit. One really has to understand the expanse of Japanese cuisine and the history of the food and culture (to some extent), to understand how the common styles of traditional Japanese knives have developed, and existed for quite some time. There is so, so much more than just sushi to Japanese cuisine, and a specialized knife for each task; deba, usuba, yanagiba can have many uses outside of sushiya. Why can't a serious sushi guy use kiritsuke or mioroshi deba, or a serious yakitori guy use a petty, etc. Many serious sushi guys already use their yanagiba to do usuba work to save time, how would it be wrong if they used a knife that did both (kiritsuke) a little better?

I'm certainly no expert about Japanese knives, but I don't agree that a kiritsuke is a better knife than a yanagiba. In fact, just based on my observations about a true kiritsuke (taller, long single bevel knife; I've never used one though), and my experience using a yanagiba, I would say that a yanagiba is likely a far better of a knife than a kiritsuke when used for the specific tasks it is meant for, e.g., skinning, slicing, especially usuzukuri, than a kiritsuke.

DwarvenChef
06-11-2012, 04:43 PM
Ok lets keep the veiled bashing at a minimum. An oppinion was presented and thats all well and good, I asked for these and I'm glad they are out there. No need to bash anyone one really, nothing posted here has been 100% off center, short of the bashing posts...

DwarvenChef
06-11-2012, 05:09 PM
It would be great if we had a sticky made by an individual or group stating uses and regions more specifically. It is definitely a subject we are all passionate about.

This would be cool for a sticky. Knowing the history of any given knife could give a potential buyer more insight into that purchase. Knowing exactly what the Takobiki was designed for would attract a buyer looking to make that cut.

Plus I just like knowing more info about my interests than I really need LOL :P

Deckhand
06-11-2012, 05:32 PM
This would be cool for a sticky. Knowing the history of any given knife could give a potential buyer more insight into that purchase. Knowing exactly what the Takobiki was designed for would attract a buyer looking to make that cut.

Plus I just like knowing more info about my interests than I really need LOL :P

Me too and sorry I took the bait up the thread I knew I shouldn't have, but I like people here and believe everyone has something to add. Didn't like the us vs them. Sorry:beatinghead:

brainsausage
06-11-2012, 07:36 PM
This would be cool for a sticky. Knowing the history of any given knife could give a potential buyer more insight into that purchase. Knowing exactly what the Takobiki was designed for would attract a buyer looking to make that cut.

Plus I just like knowing more info about my interests than I really need LOL :P

I agree fully. And I hope my opinions didn't come across as bashing btw. I was just trying to engage in a little debate. I'll be the last one to say I know the last thing about anything. Nor did I intend to derail the thread. Posting after a couple beers tends to cloud my sensitivity towards certain issues tho:D

DwarvenChef
06-11-2012, 08:11 PM
It's all good :) It just felt like it was starting down that path and I wanted to head it off. After I posted I saw that things leveled off and the thread was flowing well :) So rock on guys :)

I like that there are so many verieties out there and have this silly urge to play with them all. But I like to use them for thier intended style. Even though I have no clue what most of the styles are :p I'm reading Japanese Kitchen Knives again to try and get a full understanding of the current core styles.

brainsausage
06-11-2012, 10:13 PM
It's all good :) It just felt like it was starting down that path and I wanted to head it off. After I posted I saw that things leveled off and the thread was flowing well :) So rock on guys :)

I like that there are so many verieties out there and have this silly urge to play with them all. But I like to use them for thier intended style. Even though I have no clue what most of the styles are :p I'm reading Japanese Kitchen Knives again to try and get a full understanding of the current core styles.

I used to have a link bookmarked on my phone to a thread on the old forum, that had a pretty in depth list. I used to reference it a lot. I think the bookmark disappeared when I setup my 4s back in February.

ThEoRy
06-11-2012, 10:38 PM
I'm certainly no expert about Japanese knives, but I don't agree that a kiritsuke is a better knife than a yanagiba. In fact, just based on my observations about a true kiritsuke (taller, long single bevel knife; I've never used one though), and my experience using a yanagiba, I would say that a yanagiba is likely a far better of a knife than a kiritsuke when used for the specific tasks it is meant for, e.g., skinning, slicing, especially usuzukuri, than a kiritsuke.

That's not what he was saying. If you'll notice, some sushi guys do all tasks including veggie prep with just a yanagiba sometimes. He is suggesting that a kiritsuke may be a better choice for doing all purpose work in the same regard, not that it is a better fish slicer than a yanagiba. At least that's my understanding of his statement. To which I can see some merit in that. Haven't tested it myself, but I can see his point.

GlassEye
06-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Zknves has a good list of the types (http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml), not much depth on useage though. Searching for videos in Japanese can often find decent examples of usage. The reason for how a style developed is harder to find, Jon probably has the answer (like always).

GlassEye
06-11-2012, 10:54 PM
That's not what he was saying. If you'll notice, some sushi guys do all tasks including veggie prep with just a yanagiba sometimes. He is suggesting that a kiritsuke may be a better choice for doing all purpose work in the same regard, not that it is a better fish slicer than a yanagiba. At least that's my understanding of his statement. To which I can see some merit in that. Haven't tested it myself, but I can see his point.

This came up while I was typing my other comment. Theory has it right. I am also not wanting to say any knife style is definitively better than any other.