PDA

View Full Version : Son of a WIP



knyfeknerd
06-17-2012, 01:35 PM
At ECG a couple of weeks ago, Son bequeathed unto me an early 1900's Henckel Chef. Man, this thing is gnarly! The pics don't really do it justice though. And I didn't realize how truly funky it actually was until I started taking some of the black off. I'm slowly working to reveal as much of the steel as I can. Some of the pitting is so bad, it almost feels like it could penetrate over to the other side of the blade. This will require a new handle as well. You also can tell where someone took the egde to a bench grinder or worse. I've got to be careful as this is a seriously thin blade, but I hope to get this in working order again.
I can see a 102-10 stamped on the blade and the ORKS-of twinworks leftover as well. Son, if you can, please refresh my memory on this knife. You had a lot to say about it in Philly, all of which I've forgotten(thanks to the moonshine).
All these pics are prior to any sanding, etc.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4013.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4018.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4014.jpg
Thanks for the knife Son, I love doing stuff like this.

Benuser
06-17-2012, 02:29 PM
Are you sure it's necessary to remove all pitting? Can't you stop the process by superficial cleaning up and forcing a new patina? That's how I did with Son's Nogent. Am I in error? Will the pitting continue under the new patina? Any comment would be much appreciated.

tk59
06-17-2012, 02:40 PM
Are you sure it's necessary to remove all pitting? Can't you stop the process by superficial cleaning up and forcing a new patina? That's how I did with Son's Nogent. Am I in error? Will the pitting continue under the new patina? Any comment would be much appreciated.+1. That's the nicest profile I've ever seen on a Henckels, btw. :)

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Are you sure it's necessary to remove all pitting? Can't you stop the process by superficial cleaning up and forcing a new patina? That's how I did with Son's Nogent. Am I in error? Will the pitting continue under the new patina? Any comment would be much appreciated.

You do not need to get rid of all the pitting, but you need to get rid of all the rust. Sand off, as much as you can and then use a wire wheel or brush to get deep into the pits and get the rust out. Then develop your patina and periodically put some oil on the blade, camelia oil or mineral oil will do.

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 03:58 PM
+1. That's the nicest profile I've ever seen on a Henckels, btw. :)

The model 102 is my favorite Henkel's profile, it is incredibly thin and nimble. If you can find it there is a model 225 or 202?, I can't remember which, it has the same profile, but doesn't have the heel/choil thing on it. That one is my real favorite.

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 04:04 PM
At ECG a couple of weeks ago, Son bequeathed unto me an early 1900's Henckel Chef. Man, this thing is gnarly! The pics don't really do it justice though. And I didn't realize how truly funky it actually was until I started taking some of the black off. I'm slowly working to reveal as much of the steel as I can. Some of the pitting is so bad, it almost feels like it could penetrate over to the other side of the blade. This will require a new handle as well. You also can tell where someone took the egde to a bench grinder or worse. I've got to be careful as this is a seriously thin blade, but I hope to get this in working order again.
I can see a 102-10 stamped on the blade and the ORKS-of twinworks leftover as well. Son, if you can, please refresh my memory on this knife. You had a lot to say about it in Philly, all of which I've forgotten(thanks to the moonshine).
All these pics are prior to any sanding, etc.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4013.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4018.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4014.jpg
Thanks for the knife Son, I love doing stuff like this.

This is one of the earlier models of the 102. You can tell by the rivet pattern, The first ones that I have seen have three pins, the next batch had 2 pins and a rivet and the final ones have three rivets. This one is made around 1910-to ww1. It is carbon steel, double distal taper, incredible thin at the tip. It can't be any earlier then 1905 because it wouldn't have the 1904 stamp until 1905. They hadn't won the award yet.

Benuser
06-17-2012, 05:30 PM
You do not need to get rid of all the pitting, but you need to get rid of all the rust. Sand off, as much as you can and then use a wire wheel or brush to get deep into the pits and get the rust out. Then develop your patina and periodically put some oil on the blade, camelia oil or mineral oil will do.
A coarse ScotchBrite perhaps? It doesn't leave deep scratches.

steeley
06-17-2012, 06:05 PM
That is nice, lot of that blade still there looking forward to the WIP .

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 08:30 PM
A coarse ScotchBrite perhaps? It doesn't leave deep scratches.

that should work. If you are going to use a wire wheel and don't want to leave deep scratches use a brass one. It will penetrate the pits and since it is softer than steel no scratches.

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 08:43 PM
The model 102 is my favorite Henkel's profile, it is incredibly thin and nimble. If you can find it there is a model 225 or 202?, I can't remember which, it has the same profile, but doesn't have the heel/choil thing on it. That one is my real favorite.
It actually is the model 225, but the old ones pre 1940's

ajhuff
06-17-2012, 08:55 PM
You do not need to get rid of all the pitting, but you need to get rid of all the rust. Sand off, as much as you can and then use a wire wheel or brush to get deep into the pits and get the rust out. Then develop your patina and periodically put some oil on the blade, camelia oil or mineral oil will do.

As I suggested to Eamon. You might want to consider electrolysis for rust removal if you don't want to induce any more extra scratches and such.

-AJ

Vertigo
06-17-2012, 09:01 PM
It actually is the model 225, but the old ones pre 1940's

I think I see one on eBay right now for $99? Looks funky enough to want, but not enough to drop a Benny on...!

SpikeC
06-17-2012, 09:31 PM
There is a product called Evapo-rust that will neutralize rust without affecting the underlying steel. It avoids the problems associated with electrolysis and acids. It is used frequently in the restoration of antique woodworking tools. It is available at many auto parts places among others. It gets under the rust.

ajhuff
06-17-2012, 10:10 PM
There is a product called Evapo-rust that will neutralize rust without affecting the underlying steel. It avoids the problems associated with electrolysis and acids. It is used frequently in the restoration of antique woodworking tools. It is available at many auto parts places among others. It gets under the rust.

Probably just a concoction of phosphoric acid which convert the rust to a rather durable iron phosphate. Available at many farm stores especially in dairy areas, probably Home Depot too. Coca Cola is probably as effective given enough soak time for a knife. :D What problems have you experienced with electrolysis?

-AJ

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 10:54 PM
I think I see one on eBay right now for $99? Looks funky enough to want, but not enough to drop a Benny on...!

yes, there is one on ebay, but not worth the money once in awhile you can pick them up for 20-40 bucks wouldn't go any higher unless it's perfect and then I may pay a little more. Just for myself wouldn't get that for resale at that price.

sachem allison
06-17-2012, 10:55 PM
don't know how to make the pic bigger. If anyone has a computer brain could they resize it for me?

knyfeknerd
06-18-2012, 06:32 PM
Okay, so I've worked a lot on this for the past week. Sanding, buffing, polishing, sharpening and soaking the handle. This will still need a new handle. I am impressed with the color and shape difference a couple day's soak in mineral oil made, but it still fits ill and the metal underneath will have to be cleaned up.
The pitting was serious, some spots along the edge acted as overginds too-so some of the edge is kinda wonky. But it will be corrected over time as more sharpening occurs. Sharpening was tough at first, but once a new edge was formed, the steel really reacted nicely to some higher grit stones. Still some wedging issues with cutting. But hey, It's back in working condition after many years on(what looks like) the Titanic.http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4036.jpg
The pictures don't do the knife justice. The pitting is almost cool looking, like a weird pattern. http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4035.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4031.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4034.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4028.jpg
This is all for now. Will probably be a little while until I work out a handle. Any ideas/comments on handle material?

PierreRodrigue
06-18-2012, 06:42 PM
Keeping with a restoration theme, some bog oak, or african blackwood would bring the handle back to life, and keep it nearly as dark as it is now.

kalaeb
06-18-2012, 06:54 PM
Keeping with a restoration theme, some bog oak, or african blackwood would bring the handle back to life, and keep it nearly as dark as it is now.

+1

Benuser
06-18-2012, 06:57 PM
Looks great. A huge improvement: it can be used again.
Any idea of the thickness behind the edge, let's say at 5mm? If you were to perform some thinning a part of the pitting issue would be solved as well. Do you want to keep the finger guard as it is?

Benuser
06-18-2012, 07:22 PM
What's the reason you want to change the handle? It isn't obvious to me, but I'm viewing the pix with my cell phone...
Broken, twisted, loose?

knyfeknerd
06-18-2012, 07:59 PM
If you were to perform some thinning a part of the pitting issue would be solved as well. Do you want to keep the finger guard as it is?
I already altered the finger guard a little, but I will probably keep it similar. I've seen these ground way down on Sabatier's, but use mine to punch ventilation holes on EVOO cans and such.
Thinning would help with the wedging, but the pitting is too deep. Hey, Benuser-tell me what stone progression/plan of attack you would use to thin this blade out.


What's the reason you want to change the handle? It isn't obvious to me, but I'm viewing the pix with my cell phone...
Broken, twisted, loose?
You can't tell from any of the pics, but there are gaps between the handle and the tang on both sides. When I'm cutting with it, I can feel the blade moving around in the handle. I'm a little concerned about food getting mushed in the gaps. I guess I could use some epoxy, but it is a big gap and I don't think I want that much epoxy on anything-especially when it might not work .

Benuser
06-18-2012, 08:51 PM
Thinning would help with the wedging, but the pitting is too deep. Hey, Benuser-tell me what stone progression/plan of attack you would use to thin this blade out.




Generally one of the sides is more or less convex, while the other is more or less flat. With most European blades, the convex one is the left one. The convex one is the first one to attack..
Find an angle at which you're sure not to reach the very edge, and start with some P120 sandpaper in any direction you're comfortable with. As you're getting closer to the edge, refine with P320 and P600 paper. Generally I start at some 4 degree.
You may perform a similar but much faster operation on the other side as well. What you've made was a relief bevel. For the very edge the direction of the scratches becomes important again. Traditionally they're perpendicular to the edge. Build your bevels with the P600 sandpaper, and continue with stones as you're used to.

SpikeC
06-18-2012, 09:27 PM
What a cool deal. How is the pitting different form etched damascus? Or kurouchi? or hammered finsh? It's just anti-stick!

Benuser
06-18-2012, 10:22 PM
Just as for - hidden - hammering it's important it isn't too near to the edge and causes an overgrind, remember?

knyfeknerd
06-24-2012, 10:35 PM
Earlier this week I removed the handle from this one. I went to my local Woodcraft store and bought the only set of scales they had that would fit-some Madagascar Ebony. Keep in mind, this is my very first handle of any kind. I have only hand-held tools. I think it looks pretty OK for my lack of equipment and skills. I won't attempt anything like this again until I have the proper tools. I'm already addicted though. Thanks again Son!!!!BEFORE
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4013.jpg
AFTERhttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4217.jpg
Some more final mod picshttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4225.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4223.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4222.jpg[/IMhttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4218.jpgG]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/IMG_4220.jpg










































This thing is wicked sharp amd I can't wait to use it at work, even as goofy as it is ...........and yes, the one side is kinda like a kurouchi finish!
Thanks for looking, knerd

SpikeC
06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
Very cool! I like the "patina"!

tgraypots
06-24-2012, 11:00 PM
well done. I like your handle choice. very tasteful.

sachem allison
06-24-2012, 11:04 PM
very nice, my friend. excellent work!

Benuser
06-24-2012, 11:04 PM
+1!
Like a lot the basic form, the warmth of the ebony and the rivets!

Crothcipt
06-25-2012, 06:09 AM
Wow inspiring to get mine done.

chinacats
06-25-2012, 09:53 AM
Good job! Looks like a fun knife!

wsfarrell
06-25-2012, 03:21 PM
That's your first handle? Wow!

kalaeb
06-25-2012, 03:35 PM
That bolster area looks like a PITA to rehandle.

JohnyChai
06-29-2012, 02:10 PM
This thing is wicked sharp amd I can't wait to use it at work, even as goofy as it is ...........and yes, the one side is kinda like a kurouchi finish!
Thanks for looking, knerd

Probably already know the answer, but why can't you use it at work?!?

Line cooked
06-29-2012, 10:12 PM
I like it ...nice job

knyfeknerd
06-30-2012, 12:49 PM
So, I used this baby as my primary gyuto-ish knife all week. I always have a wa-270 and a 10inch Stainless Henckel out each day. This week, I left the stainless Henckel in my bag and used this oldie as it's replacement.
I've gotta say, this thing was awesome! I barely used my 270-wa at all. I cut, cleaned and sliced a wide variety of proteins(pork, chix, big turkey breasts, beef t-loin) cooked and raw. Did a lot of veggies as well. It did not handle carrots and onions as well as my gyuto. This is probably because of the flexy tip area. I don't know if the knife was originally this flexible, but really the only down side.
Edge retention is decent. I got it super sharp and it returns to a decent edge with some steeling on my old-school Forschner rigid steel. It's honestly kinda cool to use this steel again after so many years of minimal use.
I had put a decent shine on this, which is quicky developing a quite beautiful iridescent patina,with little to no reaction or residue on the food. I'll post some more pics when it reaches full bloom.
Thanks for looking and for all the kind comments, knerd

jklip13
10-25-2013, 10:59 PM
wow that edge was DESTROYED