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discombobulation
06-23-2012, 11:22 AM
Hi there, I am a medical student with a passion for cooking. I have been fascinated by sharper knives seen on cookery shows and online. I am interested primarily in the increased sharpness, and secondly the ergonomics/weight and ease of use when cooking.

My budget will be stretching up to $250ish, give or take, because I know that I would like to make one purchase to last me a longgg time without getting upgrade-itis :D.

I have tried to answer the following questions to help clarify things:

What type of knife(s) do you think you want?

I believe I would be looking at a gyuto or possibly a santoku – essentially a chef's knife that I would be able to use for almost everything.

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

I was using a cheap but effective (at least to me) ceramic knife, which has now snapped at the handle :O. Not good.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics- The ceramic knife was...spartan aesthetically. The blade was white though, which was kinda cool I suppose.
Edge Quality/Retention- The knife kept an edge quite well, though the first couple of months were clearly its optimum. It was still sharper than other cheap metal blades I have though, I believe this was because it had a biased edge (sp?) for right handed use.
Ease of Use- I really liked the lightness of this knife. It was all plastic, so for soft objects I could just let the knife do the work, which was something I appreciated. I would like a bit of weight in my new knife, however, as it helps me control the cutting better.
Comfort- I suppose this knife didn't really have much ergonomics, so it didn't fit in my (relatively large) hands. I was using the finger point/pinch grip so the shape of the main handle did not impact me much.

What grip do you use?
As stated above, I think it was a mixture of finger point and pinch grip. Based on what I've read however, I would be keen to move towards a pinch grip with the new knife for the added stability and control.

What kind of cutting motion do you use?
For softer foods, I think I use the slicing/push-cut/drawing technique in that order. For times where my knife's sharpness was not up to par, I think I probably slammed it down into the chopping board pretty hard..

Where do you store them?
In a drawer, though if I were to get a proper knife I would obviously take better care of it.

Have you ever oiled a handle?
Never. I would prefer not to have this added maintenance (over and above sharpening, of course).

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?
Using an acrylic board at the moment, but would be willing to invest in a better board some time down the line if this allowed use of better knives or prolonged durability, in the price range I'm talking about

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?
Since it was a ceramic knife, I never tried to sharpen it.

What do you cook and how often?
I cook about once every two days. I cook all sorts of stuff, but mostly curries and pasta dishes with lots of vegetables and some protein, ie. chicken.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?
Japanese knives - from what I have heard - offer the best value for money.
Aesthetically, I am quite fond of the layered look of the damascus etc. knives. But if this compromises value for money in terms of sharpness/ergonomics, then I would be willing to sacrifice it.

Also, can someone recommend me a sharpening tool/block etc. to go with the knife they recommend?

Thank you very much in advance for your advice!! :D

lowercasebill
06-23-2012, 12:05 PM
i started with a substantial budget but promised myself no expensive knives untill i learned how to sharpen them properly.
tosagata or country style knives are available in both blue and white steel and are inexpensive. soak the handle in tung oil once and that is it for handle maintenance. i actually like the more rustic look and recently bought another. they are available here http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13198&s=JapanWoodworker.
for sharpening start with a 1000/4000 stone which you can flatten on sandpaper.
i am not familiar with this stone http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=02.096.01&dept_id=13238
i am familiar with this stone it was my first and i liked it http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.096.30&dept_id=13117
since dave [our fearless leader and forum owner] recommends this http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/product-p/combo1x6x.htm stone it would be my first choice.

this for meat http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05.130.2&dept_id=13198

this for veggies http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05.100.20&dept_id=13198

this for general purpose http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05.100.16&dept_id=13198

good luck with your studies and with what will turn out to be an expensive but rewarding hobby/obscession
lcb

mhlee
06-23-2012, 12:09 PM
First of all, welcome!

Second, there are a lot of options in your price range. Are you looking for a western or a wa (Japanese) handled knife?

Third, how long was your ceramic knife? Did you find it to be too short? Do you have a certain length of knife in mind?

(Mods: maybe we can add a few more categories to the sticky like type of handle, carbon v. Stainless, and preferred length as these questions always seem to come up.)

chinacats
06-23-2012, 12:20 PM
Welcome and good luck in your quest!

wenus2
06-23-2012, 12:30 PM
I'm going to go with the standard maximum-value-for-a-beginner answer:

Get a 240 mm gyuto from the CarboNext Line
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html

And a combo stone to keep it sharp
http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/product-p/combo1x6x.htm

Master these tools, then worry about upgrading after you are making some real money. Truth be told, this is as good a knife as most of us ever "need," the knuckleheads on this forum just don't know when/how to quit.

discombobulation
06-23-2012, 02:15 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

The ceramic knife was about 5", and I occasionally felt that it was too short I am guessing that 6" or 7" would be enough for me.

I am not too sure which type of handle I would prefer. Is there a general consensus as to which is better for precise cutting when using/developing a refined push-cut technique? If it makes any difference, I am leaning more towards the lighter and more agile type of knives than ones with hefty handles. Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I have only hand-held a few proper knives and from this experience know that I prefer a lighter type of knife/handle.

The other thing I would add is that the knife should preferably keep an edge longer than average/be more durable, as I would like this purchase to last quite a while!

Benuser
06-23-2012, 02:40 PM
I wouldn't advice a CarboNext as it comes with an unpredictable edge - if any.
A Fujiwara FKM or Artifex would be a good choice in stainless, Fujiwara FKH or Hiromoto AS in carbon. The last one is cladded: great carbon core for sharpness with stainless clad for easy maintenance.

The Edge
06-23-2012, 02:51 PM
My personal thoughts with your budget would be a Gesshin Ginga 210mm stainless gyuto from japanese knife imports. It has both wa or yo handle options. Since the steel is AEBL hardened to 61, it should hold it's edge fairly well, and be easy to maintain. For the stone, just a cheap king 1k/6k combo stone should be all you need to keep it sharp and practice with. And welcome to the site! On a side note, Jon's customer service at JKI is above and beyond, if you end up leaning towards the knife, don't hesitate to call.

SpikeC
06-23-2012, 03:46 PM
Welcome to the Knut House! Learning to properly sharpen your knife will make it much more pleasant to use, and will help you out when your scalpel gets dull in the middle of an operation! :D

obtuse
06-23-2012, 04:17 PM
Welcome! I second the carbonext or gesshin ginga. The carbonext is one of the best values for the money. The carbonext features a semi stainless which is easy to sharpen and holds an edge really well. The gesshin ginga is one of the best performing production knives available. Also the togiharu line from Korin and the suisin inox series are some other budget knives worth considering. As for sharpening stones. Look into getting the bester 1200 from Japanese knife sharpening and when you are proficient with that adding a suehiro rika 5000.

sachem allison
06-24-2012, 12:20 AM
welcome

MadMel
06-24-2012, 10:29 AM
I second the Gesshin. Have been using the 210 yo-handled petty/suji as my main line knife far a while now.

Sharpens up nicely keeps the edge fairly well, Jon's CS is as close to perfect as can be.
It's thin and light (laser-ish), cuts really well but I'm not too sure as you said you wanted more weight.
Finally, you can get Jon to sharpen it for you first while you learn to sharpen.

El Pescador
06-24-2012, 11:20 AM
Devin Thomas custom 250mm gyuto in feather damascus san mai with a mystery carbon steel core. It might be slighty beyond your current budget , but he might let you make payments.

BTW, stay away from the Mokume, it will just make it more expensive.

oivind_dahle
06-24-2012, 12:33 PM
I would go for DT san mai :)
Damascus is pearls for pigs in a pro kitchen :)

Crothcipt
06-24-2012, 07:05 PM
I don't know about that, but pretty close. Put it this way the patina will change the look of the blade every day.

vai777
06-25-2012, 11:26 AM
210 Ikeda gyuto...

jm2hill
06-25-2012, 02:26 PM
Vai777, will you please post why you like the Ikeda so much over other knives? It seems to be the only one you recommend even if the context doesn't match.

add
06-25-2012, 11:38 PM
Vai777, will you please post why you like the Ikeda so much over other knives? It seems to be the only one you recommend even if the context doesn't match.

lol

Best knife for personal scraping and grooming of toe cheese... ?

mhlee
06-25-2012, 11:50 PM
Devin Thomas custom 250mm gyuto in feather damascus san mai with a mystery carbon steel core. It might be slighty beyond your current budget , but he might let you make payments.

:nutskick:

He said $250, not $2500 you smart ass.

obtuse
06-26-2012, 04:03 AM
Ikeda/Akifusa isn't a bad knife, just needs a little thinning. If I were a noob and was considering this knife, I would send it off for a TuneUp.

bkdc
06-26-2012, 09:16 AM
CarboNext gyuto. Love mine.
I've heard great things about the Artifex which uses AEB-L steel. Inexpensive, great steel, and thin.

discombobulation
06-28-2012, 10:24 AM
I am currently thinking about the Artifex and the Gesshin Ginga. However, the price of the Artifex with finish sharpening and saya is ~$114, whilst the Gesshin Ginga is $220.

Can someone tell me briefly, what the key differences are between the two knives? What makes up the almost-double price of the Gesshin Ginga? Most specifically, I am wondering whether the Gesshin is more durable or will hold an edge better than the Artifex.

Finally, are there any specific stones that would pair well with either of these knives?

Thank you all so much for your advice, it is much appreciated!

tk59
06-28-2012, 05:16 PM
The Gesshin Ginga is like a sports car. It is thin, an excellent cutter, excellent fit and finish and steel meant to rival carbon steel for keeness. Edge retention is very good. It is among the nicest knives you can get. From what I gather, it's a good bang for the buck candidate with basic fit and finish, etc. I don't know who does the "finish sharpening" on the Artifex these days nor do I know what it really means but it I'm sure it isn't any sort of master sharpener doing it. The Ginga comes with a very nice edge without "finish sharpening."

mhlee
06-28-2012, 07:00 PM
Also, the spine and choil are rounded on the Ginga and the Ginga has a nicer handle. From what I've read, the spine and the choil on the Artifex are square. Perhaps an Artifex owner can chime in here.

Johnny.B.Good
06-28-2012, 07:30 PM
If you go with the Gesshin Ginga, you could arrange for Jon to finish sharpen it before shipping to you (and I'm sure he will be happy to recommend stones that will work nicely with the steel).

discombobulation
07-02-2012, 12:24 PM
I've taken the plunge and gone for the Artifex 210mm Gyuto! Once sharpening, saya and shipping were added it came up to almost 100 so I decided to have a bit of restraint and skip the Gesshin (for now). Especially because I will still have to buy sharpening tools as well.

Regarding sharpening, do people have any specific recommendations for how to maintain the Artifex (on a budget of sorts)?

Apologies for repeated bumping of this thread, all your advice has been invaluable.

Timthebeaver
07-02-2012, 12:48 PM
That'll be closer to 130 once HM Customs has a look at it i suspect. JCK and JNS the best sources of knives for us Britlanders, I feel.