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View Full Version : Bester 1200 & Rika 5000



Moodymann
06-26-2012, 07:32 PM
I have had a look around the threads and have noticed that these stones are well recommended. I have recently received a Heiji Gyuto and didn't put a micro bevel on its razor sharp ootb edge and it's now suffering, so I need to get a least one stone sorted as soon as. Are these 2 stones a good choice for my knife and because I live in the UK what would be a good alternative to the Rika? I have only found one in ebay in Japan and on JKS which isn't shipping internationally at the moment.

thanks in advance.

ThEoRy
06-26-2012, 07:42 PM
That's because ootb isn't razor sharp. It's an extremely obtuse angle with a tiny thin bevel. You will need at least those two stones to bring out the true potential.

Moodymann
06-26-2012, 07:54 PM
That's because ootb isn't razor sharp. It's an extremely obtuse angle with a tiny thin bevel.

I asked Heiji to put an edge on it, so it came razor sharp with a really fine edge and its micro chipping.


You will need at least those two stones to bring out the true potential.

That's not what I've read about these stones.

JohnyChai
06-26-2012, 08:10 PM
I asked Heiji to put an edge on it, so it came razor sharp with a really fine edge and its micro chipping.



That's not what I've read about these stones.


What you have read and what Rick is saying both have merits...to get the best edge off of a Heiji you would probably have a larger progression including a lower grit stone(Beston 500, GG 400) to get rid of those chips faster and possibly a Natural or two for finishing...

That being said to begin sharpening that knife, those stones should work just fine. Maxim's(JNS) 6000 Synthetic, possibly Chosera 3k for alternatives...

schanop
06-26-2012, 08:13 PM
+1 for getting goodies from Maxim since you are in the uk. He's about to go on Holidays, so get in quick.

ThEoRy
06-26-2012, 09:30 PM
I asked Heiji to put an edge on it, so it came razor sharp with a really fine edge and its micro chipping.



That's not what I've read about these stones.

Huh? I think you are misinterpreting what I have said. I thoroughly enjoy both of those stones and highly recommend them but I think you will need both of them AND a lower grit stone AND a stropping system as well in order to bring out the true sharpness in that knife.

About ootb sharpness, I've never been impressed by a factory edge. If Heji did something to your knife in addition to the regular factory edge well I guess that's different. Pics could help. Only time I ever received a brand new knife and was impressed with the edge was the Hiromoto suji I got from Dave. But he thinned it and sharpened it so there ya go.

Moodymann
06-27-2012, 06:53 PM
Huh? I think you are misinterpreting what I have said. I thoroughly enjoy both of those stones and highly recommend them but I think you will need both of them AND a lower grit stone AND a stropping system as well in order to bring out the true sharpness in that knife.

About ootb sharpness, I've never been impressed by a factory edge. If Heji did something to your knife in addition to the regular factory edge well I guess that's different. Pics could help. Only time I ever received a brand new knife and was impressed with the edge was the Hiromoto suji I got from Dave. But he thinned it and sharpened it so there ya go.

Ok, nevermind about ootb sharpness. I did say it was razor sharp.

I understand that more stones are needed for full potential but I am not looking for optimum set up right now. I need to get something sorted out right away. I was going to take pics when I received it but couldn't wait to get it in use. I'll eventually get some done, got to find a new place to stay first.

tk59
06-27-2012, 07:27 PM
Heiji puts a nice edge on knives, in terms of sharpness. As the OP mentioned, this edge is on the delicate side. What you need depends on what you like/want out of your edge. A reputable 1k/5k duo is plenty good and I think you're fine starting there. If you have significant chips, you'll need something lower grit (400/500) to work them out in a reasonable amount of time.

Moodymann
06-28-2012, 06:18 PM
Ouch, not looking good so far. Gonna cost the same to deliver as it does to buy a stone.

tk59
06-28-2012, 11:15 PM
I don't know what it would cost to get stones from Schtoo but he carries a nice selection of stones and he'll give you an honest opinion on what they can and can't do even if he loses a sale as a result. http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=335&zenid=fa07f920ce0dd45070ef5cbc49b77073. I like the SigmaPower 400 and the SelectII 1.2k for double bevel knives. Good luck and please post your experience.

Moodymann
07-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Thanks, I had a look and the postage is same. I can get the Bester 1200 here http://www.fine-tools.com/scharf.html I just need to decide which stone to follow.

Aphex
07-04-2012, 01:53 PM
How about the Bester 1000/6000 combination stone? Seems to be just what you need without having to spend a fortune on shipping/customs.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/bester-imanishi-combination-waterstone-1000-6000g-prod867058/

ParJ
07-04-2012, 04:14 PM
To UK you can get a godo price on shipping from http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk but they mainly carry the Chosera stones. I have bought quite a few from them with no hassle.

Par

TB_London
07-04-2012, 04:51 PM
Chosera 400, 1k and 5k is my default progression. I have a bester 700 which is quicker on super hard steels but I prefer the feedback of the choseras.
King 1k and 4k are useful for single bevels as theyre softer and muddier
My higher grit stones also don't get the use they used to after adding a 1/2 micron diamond loaded strop to my kit

AnxiousCowboy
07-05-2012, 12:45 AM
I go from a 2000 bester to the rika and I love it. Looking to get something more course for before the 2000, though.

keithsaltydog
07-05-2012, 01:30 AM
Did you try Chef knives to Go.He has both the Besters & the Suihiro Rika 5K.Usually his shipping is reasonable.I really like the Besters & the Rika.Most of my work carbons are trained so a touchup on the Rika is all I need both for Gyuto & Yanagi which I use for sashimi & sushi topping.

Everyone has their preferance in stones,I am on my second rika 5K I love the feel,action,& razor edges I get on my Blue & White steels.Since you already have the 700(To me the 1200 Bester & 5K Rika are much better stones)Stones get better in higher grits,the 1200 Bester is a great med. stone & the Rika for the price is a top finishing stone.

TB_London
07-05-2012, 05:05 AM
Importing from US isn't just postage that adds up, it's custom fees and duty as well that'll average 25% on top....

I've seen the Suehiro 6k for sale in Germany and wondered if it's comparable to the 5k?

When my Choseras wear out I'll probably be giving Maxim's synthetics a go

Schtoo
07-05-2012, 06:13 AM
Did you try Chef knives to Go.He has both the Besters & the Suihiro Rika 5K.Usually his shipping is reasonable.


Go check what the shipping quote on a Bester #1200 and a Rika is to the UK (where the OP is) and you'll find out the most expensive part of the equation is the shipping. Granted, there are a lot of hoops to jump through to find out the shipping cost which on a personal note drives me absolutely bat scat crazy...

(And folks who have to pay tax on imports get to pay that tax on the shipping as well...)


TB_London, The Suehiro #6000 (yellow box) is kind of similar to the Rika, but I find it to be a little less easy to use and quite a bit more 'grabby'. Works well enough, but it's not a stone I use often. Actually, I've used it only a few times before deciding to put it away until someone actually asks me "what is it like?" I think it would be a good stone, but one that might take some getting used to.

Hope that helps,


Stu.

Moodymann
07-05-2012, 05:43 PM
It's a tricky one, I calculate it at around 150 after adding import fees to get the Bester & Rika from your store Stu. Alternatively if ordering the Bester and Chosera 5K from Dieter Schmidt it will cost 120.

Stu, I am interested to hear what you think of an alternative to the Rika.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, I can't wait to get this dealt with and sort out my edge.

TB_London
07-05-2012, 05:46 PM
Cheers for the info, already have a 6k that I love on Carbons so didn't want to get the suehiro unless it was going to be something special, which it doesn't sound like it is.

keithsaltydog
07-05-2012, 11:08 PM
Go check what the shipping quote on a Bester #1200 and a Rika is to the UK (where the OP is) and you'll find out the most expensive part of the equation is the shipping. Granted, there are a lot of hoops to jump through to find out the shipping cost which on a personal note drives me absolutely bat scat crazy...

(And folks who have to pay tax on imports get to pay that tax on the shipping as well...)


TB_London, The Suehiro #6000 (yellow box) is kind of similar to the Rika, but I find it to be a little less easy to use and quite a bit more 'grabby'. Works well enough, but it's not a stone I use often. Actually, I've used it only a few times before deciding to put it away until someone actually asks me "what is it like?" I think it would be a good stone, but one that might take some getting used to.

Hope that helps,


Stu.

Stu I ordered a Japan saw from your site,I just love those Japan saws.The shipping to Hawaii was reasonable.I also ordered the Sakai ultra thin fr. Keiichi in Osaka again shipping fair.

I guess it's diff. going fr. US to England,I have never paid customs that I know of fr. Japan to Hawaii.

Schtoo
07-06-2012, 12:17 AM
Keith,

Going to the US, it's supposed to be state sales tax you pay and theoretically there might be import duty on some stuff. I don't know how much stuff I've sent to the US, likely a thousand or more boxes, and I've never heard of one getting hit for anything. Missing postage, yes. Completely vanished, yes. Destroyed box, yes. But never duty or tax.

Going into Europe and depending on the country it'll get hit for import duty and VAT. Different countries have different thresholds for when tax and duty apply, and the UK is especially strict on it. I don't send very much stuff to the UK because of that.

We're supposed to pay duties here on certain items, but I've only had to pay it a few times.

I've worked out the quirks of most countries around the world now. Part of the job, especially when everything I sell goes overseas. I keep getting asked to sell inside Japan too, but I've got enough on my plate as it is without adding that complication. ;)

Moodyman, if you can get the Bester #1200 and a Chosera 5K for 120 to your door then do it. You won't be disappointed by either one I don't think. Granted, the Chosera 5K isn't anything like the Rika, but it's a case of being different, that's all.

Stu.

Moodymann
07-07-2012, 03:32 AM
Moodyman, if you can get the Bester #1200 and a Chosera 5K for 120 to your door then do it. You won't be disappointed by either one I don't think. Granted, the Chosera 5K isn't anything like the Rika, but it's a case of being different, that's all.

Stu.

Thanks Stu

I might just do that, but before I do I'll throw one last thing out there. I can get the JNS 1+6K for 104, in fact it might work out better. Then seeing as TK is considering buying he can have a shot and we can compare to the Choseras.

Schtoo
07-07-2012, 02:17 PM
Thanks Stu

I might just do that, but before I do I'll throw one last thing out there. I can get the JNS 1+6K for 104, in fact it might work out better. Then seeing as TK is considering buying he can have a shot and we can compare to the Choseras.

Hi Moodyman,

The price is decent, but I have no idea what the stones are like so can't tell you anything.

I cannot comment on a stone I don't have on hand, and have no experience with. Might be the greatest stone ever made, but if I don't have one, I can't comment on it.

Apparently, they're good stones which is good, but you'd have to ask someone who's got them what they think of them.

Good luck, pity I can't help you any more than the above.

Stu.

Jay
07-07-2012, 02:41 PM
There are so many great stones, who can have them all?

Nuts like us.

I think it's more important to just get any stone in each appropriate grit range range and learn how to use it than it is to agonize over which stone to get.

The Rika is a very nice finishing stone even if it lacks a sky high grit rating, and the Bester 1.2K is a very competent medium stone. Those two would serve you very nicely, as would several other combinations of stones.

Moodymann
07-11-2012, 06:28 PM
Argh, wrote a load and accidentally went back a page thus losing it all. I think I said something like this....

Fair point on getting started on anything, I have been feeling frustrated and impatient at the time it's taking me to get to the answers I've been looking for. However I would rather make an informed decision from the recommendations of the knowledgeable and experienced people here and buy once instead of make an unwise decision and re-buy stones which don't come cheap, especially from the UK.

I think the Rika is out of contention at the moment, I was under the impression the performance for the price gave good value and was a big draw. But seeing as the price is doubled after shipping to the UK, is it still good value?

I reckon I'll give the JNS a shot, just so busy right now and not around to receive delivery if I order. But as they say, good things come to those who wait.

TB_London
07-24-2012, 04:21 AM
Did you go with the JNS stones? Would be great to hear what you think of them?

stevenStefano
07-24-2012, 09:54 AM
I've bought stones from BluewayJapan on Ebay and didn't pay any import duties, he sells the Rika 5k and he is a great vendor, that's where I got mine

Moodymann
03-26-2013, 06:04 PM
Wow, time flies.

I eventually ended up getting a Gesshin 2000 brought over for me from my brother at xmas. Having trouble getting a good edge though, I know I won't be able to get the kind of edge I had with this one stone but I'm not sure how sharp I should be able to get it. I'm generally struggling to get a good edge that lasts, I'll need to get in touch with Jon for some advice as I can't get the desired finish.

JBroida
03-26-2013, 06:58 PM
What kind of sharpening trouble are you having?

WiscoNole
03-27-2013, 03:34 PM
Wow, time flies.

I eventually ended up getting a Gesshin 2000 brought over for me from my brother at xmas. Having trouble getting a good edge though, I know I won't be able to get the kind of edge I had with this one stone but I'm not sure how sharp I should be able to get it. I'm generally struggling to get a good edge that lasts, I'll need to get in touch with Jon for some advice as I can't get the desired finish.
no offense but it's probably technique. I have a Gesshin 2k and can get an edge worthy of taking to work if I'm in a hurry.

keithsaltydog
03-27-2013, 04:39 PM
Wow, time flies.

I eventually ended up getting a Gesshin 2000 brought over for me from my brother at xmas. Having trouble getting a good edge though, I know I won't be able to get the kind of edge I had with this one stone but I'm not sure how sharp I should be able to get it. I'm generally struggling to get a good edge that lasts, I'll need to get in touch with Jon for some advice as I can't get the desired finish.

Do not give up on the Gesshin 2000.I think you made a good choice.It needs alot of water,I soak mine about half hour,also use a a spray bottle wt H2O while on the stone.It puts a very functional edge on knives wt. good steel.The stone has feedback & is aggressive for a 2K.

There is a link to Jon's--Knife Sharpening Playlist--24 videos.View the ones that can refine your tech.& put some more blades to that stone.:)

Moodymann
04-01-2013, 10:05 AM
What kind of sharpening trouble are you having?


no offense but it's probably technique. I have a Gesshin 2k and can get an edge worthy of taking to work if I'm in a hurry.


Do not give up on the Gesshin 2000.I think you made a good choice.It needs alot of water,I soak mine about half hour,also use a a spray bottle wt H2O while on the stone.It puts a very functional edge on knives wt. good steel.The stone has feedback & is aggressive for a 2K.

There is a link to Jon's--Knife Sharpening Playlist--24 videos.View the ones that can refine your tech.& put some more blades to that stone.:)

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

I am able to form burrs no problem, I think it's the removal that seems to be the problem. I have watched all the relevant videos from Jon's YouTube channel and taken knowledge from the forums. So far I have been soaking the stone for at least 30mins then forming a burr on both sides followed by working both sides with lesser pressure and number of strokes to try and deburr finishing off with some light trailing strokes and passing through cork. I have been managing to get to a point where the edge bites while doing the thumbnail test but it's not super sharp and grabby.

After some prep on the board the edge will slide while doing the thumbnail test. So this also makes me wonder about my board too (it's made of acacia wood), can't afford a decent board right now. I'll need to swap to the synthetic board this next time and see what happens.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Aaron