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View Full Version : Anyone use single bevel for normal everyday use?



jgraeff
06-29-2012, 02:22 PM
i guess in place of of a gyuto?

just curious if anyone has and if it is a good replacement of if it doesn't measure up?

Pros and cons?

jm2hill
06-29-2012, 02:27 PM
I like to use an Usuba for veggies and a yanagi for proteins some days. (I rotate knives a lot)

Really really like the usuba, it tempted me to pick up a kiritsuke.

Pros: I don't know really, I just enjoy using them. They're sharp as hell and cut real nice. Cons: They take time to get used too. Harder to sharpen. Different motions and skills required.

JohnnyChance
06-29-2012, 02:31 PM
Depends on what you are cooking. You just cant make some cuts on some product with a single bevel that you can with a gyuto, suji or other double bevel. I'm not going to use a yanagi, usuba or kiritsuke to small dice a butternut squash into perfect little cubes, for example.

mhlee
06-29-2012, 02:34 PM
I posed this question a while back to a few people. The consensus was no. I understand the "why" now.

Single bevel knives are use or task specific. While I've seen some single bevels used for tasks which they were not intended, there's really no single bevel knife that's an all purpose knife. You can cut veg with a usuba, but can't butcher or slice protein with it, you can slice with a yanagiba and do some delicate chopping (not necessarily recommended although I've seen Japanese chefs do this on rare occasions), you cannot butcher with it (I've never done this with mine for fear of chipping), you can butcher with a deba but slicing looks difficult as does veg prep.

tk59
06-29-2012, 02:45 PM
You can't comfortably cut thick slices of anything hard because of the crazy steering and wedging. If you only cut thin slices of pretty much anything, you'll be fine.

JohnyChai
06-29-2012, 02:48 PM
Depends on what you are cooking. You just cant make some cuts on some product with a single bevel that you can with a gyuto, suji or other double bevel. I'm not going to use a yanagi, usuba or kiritsuke to small dice a butternut squash into perfect little cubes, for example.

This is pretty much it. Always found that using a Yanagi in too many applications caused more wear and tear on the body due to it's geometry. Wedging and steering being the main issues for this user...If you change your style of approach of course it could be satisfactory. As has been said, they are certainly super sharp even when not sharpened often,which helps for certain rough prep.

Sarge
06-29-2012, 03:51 PM
Most days I use my Kiritsuke for the majority of my prep work. From veg to breaking down psmos and portioning out fish fillets. For large and or tough veg it is better to use a gyuto. Due to reasons mentioned before. I also use it as my line knife when the edge on my gyuto becomes unsatisfactory.

I love that knife and wouldn't want to be without it; however it took 3 months of heavy use to really start to get a consistent every cut how I want it feel, and 3 more after that for things to start becoming second nature with it. 18 months later I'm finally starting to try and branch out more with it (Katsurimuki etc) I do a fair amount of very fine juilienne and dicing. There are tasks it isn't the best for but I can make it work (dice large onion) but for those I use the gyuto

Crothcipt
06-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Having the Nakiri on the pass a round I am def. thinking of getting a usuba, but def. a Nakiri. Other than the obvious of single and bobble bevel is there any other difference?

EdipisReks
06-29-2012, 07:51 PM
*double post*

EdipisReks
06-29-2012, 07:53 PM
Having the Nakiri on the pass a round I am def. thinking of getting a usuba, but def. a Nakiri. Other than the obvious of single and bobble bevel is there any other difference?

an usuba is a totally different beast from a nakiri. i like my usuba, but i only use it for certain things, and it's in no way a multi-tasker like a nakiri. my usuba (a modest yoshihiro white 2) is an incredibly good cutter, as i have it set up to be stupid thin behind the edge, but it wedges badly on anything vaguely hard. just the nature of the beast. it's a chiffonade machine, though, and i love it for shaving garlic.

Crothcipt
06-29-2012, 07:54 PM
Ok so 2 knives then. on a Usuba is it alright to go with a cheap (200 ish) one or is it like a deba and you want to go with something more expensive cause of the grind?

GlassEye
06-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Ok so 2 knives then. on a Usuba is it alright to go with a cheap (200 ish) one or is it like a deba and you want to go with something more expensive cause of the grind?

I would say even more so than deba. Usuba are thinner and need to be almost dead flat on the edge, if I wanted a less expensive usuba Gesshin Uraku would be my first choice.

GlassEye
06-29-2012, 08:19 PM
Most days I use my Kiritsuke for the majority of my prep work. From veg to breaking down psmos and portioning out fish fillets. For large and or tough veg it is better to use a gyuto. Due to reasons mentioned before. I also use it as my line knife when the edge on my gyuto becomes unsatisfactory.

I love that knife and wouldn't want to be without it; however it took 3 months of heavy use to really start to get a consistent every cut how I want it feel, and 3 more after that for things to start becoming second nature with it. 18 months later I'm finally starting to try and branch out more with it (Katsurimuki etc) I do a fair amount of very fine juilienne and dicing. There are tasks it isn't the best for but I can make it work (dice large onion) but for those I use the gyuto
I was trying to use kiritsuke for everything I could for a while, then decided to just use gyuto for the things kiritsuke couldn't do. Like you, I can make it work, but there is no point when I do have a better tool for the job at hand. Gyuto + kiritsuke is my do almost everything pair, I can't live with just one.

Single-bevel and double-bevel knives just aren't interchangeable in most cases. I think it is hard to understand why until you have used a single bevel knife and understand the geometry
of these knives.

EdipisReks
06-29-2012, 08:27 PM
Ok so 2 knives then. on a Usuba is it alright to go with a cheap (200 ish) one or is it like a deba and you want to go with something more expensive cause of the grind?

i bought two yoshihiro white 2 knives on ebay, the usuba and a 300 yanagi. the usuba was well ground, and the yanagi was awful. i just got lucky, usuba wise, and was unlucky yanagi wise (though i now know how to take care of a yanagi really well!). if you really want an Usuba, i wouldn't cheap out. there is a lot of room for bad grinds on these types of knives. i would call Jon Broida, as he can steer you to something suitable.

schanop
06-29-2012, 08:36 PM
I usually pick up usuba and mukimono more often than a gyuto for vegetable work. And usually a suji and honesuki for most of my meat work. Deba is up many times a week when fish and seafood is on the table.

A cleaver is also a ahead in the line compared with a gyuto nowadays.

GlassEye
06-29-2012, 08:40 PM
i bought two yoshihiro white 2 knives on ebay, the usuba and a 300 yanagi. the usuba was well ground, and the yanagi was awful. i just got lucky, usuba wise, and was unlucky yanagi wise (though i now know how to take care of a yanagi really well!). if you really want an Usuba, i wouldn't cheap out. there is a lot of room for bad grinds on these types of knives. i would call Jon Broida, as he can steer you to something suitable.

The Gesshin Uraku usuba fit in your 200ish range, and I trust that if any problem did arise with the knife Jon would make it right. I think you can't go wrong with anything from JKI.

tk59
06-30-2012, 12:11 AM
...I think you can't go wrong with anything from JKI.Yup. I've personally seen Jon do QC on stuff that arrives to his shop directly from knifemakers. He's rejected stuff that I thought was actually fine to sell.

brainsausage
06-30-2012, 02:02 AM
This is a very timely post for me. I just broke out my single bevel Azai yanigiba today for the first time in awhile. More for kicks than anything else. I did a rough cut of chuck flap for burger prep, and it lasered. Then I cleaned some brisket for same burger prep, and I far preferred it to my Kono single bevel petty. I then moved on to doing a little light mire poix, just two quarts- I removed the root of two onions, and then tried halving them. I attempted to adjust for left leaning bias and got a wobbly half instead. I'm sure with practice that would be corrected, but I have chukas and gyuto's that excel at that. Why make a knife something it isn't?

jgraeff
06-30-2012, 11:04 AM
Thanks for all the replies, i was curious because i was at a sushi bar the other knife and a guy a funyaki shaped single bevel and was using it on everything from fish to beef, veggies, root veggies, and herbs. It may have been a double bevel knife or maybe he had mad skills.

jgraeff
06-30-2012, 11:05 AM
Yup. I've personally seen Jon do QC on stuff that arrives to his shop directly from knifemakers. He's rejected stuff that I thought was actually fine to sell.

+1 Jon is great to work with, other than custom makers its really the only knife website i go on anymore. Wish i had enough money to have one of everything though :)

Pensacola Tiger
06-30-2012, 11:28 AM
Thanks for all the replies, i was curious because i was at a sushi bar the other knife and a guy a funyaki shaped single bevel and was using it on everything from fish to beef, veggies, root veggies, and herbs. It may have been a double bevel knife or maybe he had mad skills.

He might have been using a Suisin Momiji funayuki. I have one, and it is very thin and can be used as a general purpose knife.

http://korin.com/Shop/Momiji-Funayuki

jgraeff
06-30-2012, 11:30 AM
very similar just more pointy tip. thats probably what it was. So whats the difference between a funayuki and usuba lets say? their both single bevel so wouldn't they both struggle with steering?

Pensacola Tiger
06-30-2012, 12:50 PM
very similar just more pointy tip. thats probably what it was. So whats the difference between a funayuki and usuba lets say? their both single bevel so wouldn't they both struggle with steering?

All of the usubas I've seen and/or used (all three of them) were thick at the spine, 3.5 to 4 mm, while the Momiji funayuki is only 2.5 mm. That evidently is enough to make the Momiji much more controllable. It still steers, but nowhere near as much. I'd say it was closer to an Aritsugu A-type that had been thinned to 99/1 as was popular a few years ago.

wenus2
06-30-2012, 01:23 PM
I think it's related to thinness, the large bevel doesn't push out on the product quite as hard because the knife is not so very thick at the shinogi.

JohnnyChance
07-01-2012, 01:52 AM
They are great for shaving small bits off your fingernails when cutting in the same manner as a gyuto though.

brainsausage
07-01-2012, 02:32 AM
They are great for shaving small bits off your fingernails when cutting in the same manner as a gyuto though.

Hah!

hambone.johnson
07-01-2012, 02:53 AM
the thing with this post is you have a bunch of people from different kitchens and workspaces and stuff all weighing in. right now i can use a mukimono 180 and an Artifex 210 to get through my day. in years past however ive gone 240 gyuto and larger to get through my work day. right now its all about precision and small cuts and garnishes. in the past. its been 2 deli's of fine chives for service and a medium dice of onion all day long all day strong. i dont like single bevel for onions or hard stuff. but i do love it because its sharper longer and easier to touch up than my western shapes. im lazy on a 50/50 bevel but i can pull out a 5k stone and touch up the mukimono in 15 minutes every 2-3 days and its so sharp that garnishes dont wilt and brunoise are clean and fast. IDK, i try and stay "tool for the kitchen, for the work space, for the standard" minded.

geezr
07-01-2012, 03:20 AM
[QUOTE=hambone.johnson;122849]the thing with this post is you have a bunch of people from different kitchens and workspaces and stuff all weighing in....................

Home cook - use G. Hide Mioroshi, and Dave's "practice" yanagiba all the time when cooking. :knight: