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JKerr
07-01-2012, 09:38 AM
Who uses 'em in a commercial kitchen? What do you think of the shape? Do you use them for all proteins or just poultry? Pros and cons, i.e. are they good for working around joints but **** for taken silverside off whole sirloins?

I'm keen to try one out but just concerned about whether I'll take to it or not. I started with a Sab 5" boning knife, "upgraded" to a hankotsu, but the style just never really worked for me. I don't mind it, but I just don't feel it's as nimble as my sab. hard to explain, but the hankotsu just doesn't feel like an extension of my hand like the sab does; maybe it's just the blocky handle.

The direction of our restaurant is changing and while we'll still be flying the flag for fish, we'll be getting in a lot more meat; rib-eyes, whole suckling pigs, the odd rabbit perhaps. The plan is to do a lot of butchery in house.

Preference would be for a western handle and I don't care if it's stainless or carbon.

I'd be keen to hear what brands people are using too. I've been eyeing off the the green handled nenox at Korin (purely aesthetic and I've always wanted to try a nenox) but I think I would have a hard time forking out $600+ for VG1 (?), even if it was HT'd by Jesus and ground by Buddha. The Hattori FH is also in consideration. I really enjoyed using the two FH knives I previously has, kinda regret selling them :(

Cheers in advance,
Josh

knyfeknerd
07-01-2012, 10:34 AM
If you want to try a honesuki, go tojiro DP. Very cheap and an unbelievably great knife. I've had mine for over 10 years, and yes it's VG-10. Probably the best VG-10 knife out there.
I bought mine at an asian market because I thought it looked cool. I had no idea what it was for until a japanese friend of mine clued me in. It is excellent for cleaning silverskin and fat off of all types of proteins. There is a bit of a learning curve when switching from a french-style boner. You may still find yourself reaching for old frenchie when frenching lamb racks, etc.
The tojiro has great edge retention and the western handle you are looking for. Search it on whatshisfaces, I mean **** site and read the tons of glowing reviews, you won't be sorry.

shankster
07-01-2012, 10:36 AM
I use a Moritaka 150mm blue #2 at work.
Great for poultry.racks o lamb and boning out legs o lamb. Not so great for silver skin removal(too thick behind the edge),I use my Kasumi semi flexi boner for finesse jobs.
It's a wa handle so it won't fit your criteria,but it's a great little knife...

chinacats
07-01-2012, 11:25 AM
Search it on whatshisfaces, I mean **** site and read the tons of glowing reviews, you won't be sorry.

I am sure it is a fine knife, but sure wouldn't trust the glowing reviews on what's his name's site...everything there gets equally bogus reviews :bigeek:

jgraeff
07-01-2012, 11:44 AM
i use the 150mm tojiro DP, its a great knife i use it on ducks, chickens, rack of lamb, i use it to remove silver skin on beef tenderloin, its also good for removing bloodline from fish.

ThEoRy
07-01-2012, 11:45 AM
Awesome knife shape. I wont ever do tenderloins without one ever again. Boning out poultry is a breeze too. Only thing I don't like it for is boning out strips, I like the heavier hankotsu for that.

Citizen Snips
07-01-2012, 12:13 PM
its good at boning and things but i just prefer a hefty 150 or 180 petty. it can do more. the honesuki is not versatile enough for me

chuck239
07-01-2012, 01:58 PM
its good at boning and things but i just prefer a hefty 150 or 180 petty. it can do more. the honesuki is not versatile enough for me

What can a petty do that a Honesuki cant do in your opinion? I own both an am just curious.

-Chuck

heirkb
07-01-2012, 02:02 PM
I like mine a lot, and it probably gets as much use as my gyuto at work. I use it for chicken, rabbit, anything with a bone really. I'm not liking it as much as a thinner knife for silver skin but that might just be because I suck right now. I also use it for squid. I think its 99/1 bevel helps me get closer to the bone on chicken breasts and things like that, but I could be wrong.

I got a really tough one for really cheap through Jon at JKI. I'd contact him if I were you.

Justin0505
07-01-2012, 02:17 PM
I really like mine too. Great for boning, but I also like it as a general utility / petty. I find that the extreme shape works very well for shorter blades as it gives you plenty of clearance under the handle.
If you don't like the "flying triangle of chicken death" blade shape though, JKI sells a Zakuri "boning knife" that's double bevel, very stout , and has a less extreme shape. Works about the same for boning (tip is not quite as maneuverable) , is a slightly better at slicing, is narrower and better if used "in the air" and reverse grip. But, it wedges more if used as a petty on hard stuff and has less handle clearance.

Citizen Snips
07-01-2012, 03:35 PM
What can a petty do that a Honesuki cant do in your opinion? I own both an am just curious.

-Chuck

anything a gyuto can for the most part. i use a petty do do line stuff, cut herbs, veggies etc and i ONLY used my honesuki for boning chickens

the thinner profile and geometry of the petty works better for me for things like trimming meat

Dusty
07-01-2012, 07:14 PM
I use the tojiro dp as well. I thrash it and it stands up to a fair bit of abuse I also don't curse too much if it gets a ding or two. That said, i tend to have an f.dick boner on hand for frenching.

Definitely the best thing that I've used on poultry, and rabbit and I find it great for larger cuts of beef as well. I pita microbevel on it, which helps the edge not just go straight through the silverskin while cleaning whole sirloins etc ...

If I was to buy one tomorrow I'd try and find something carbon hardened to about 58-59.

Dusty
07-01-2012, 07:17 PM
On a side note, it's my favourite small knife profile and if I'm ever in a position to have custom knives made, first up would be a western laser petty with a honesuki profile.

labor of love
07-01-2012, 09:02 PM
if i was buying a honesuki or hankotsu i would go tojiro dp. most honesukis and hankotsus seem overpriced to me considering what theyre used for. plus those tojiros are tough, not much flex i wouldnt be scared to use a tojiro for tough tasks. or maybe even the carbonext honesuki?

Miles
07-01-2012, 09:59 PM
I use a Kikuichi in my work kit and a Tojiro at home. I find them to be very handy. I tend to use them mainly for poultry but they see additional use for other proteins, particularly if I'm deboning. They're tough and keep on coming back for more.

heirkb
07-01-2012, 10:50 PM
if i was buying a honesuki or hankotsu i would go tojiro dp. most honesukis and hankotsus seem overpriced to me considering what theyre used for. plus those tojiros are tough, not much flex i wouldnt be scared to use a tojiro for tough tasks. or maybe even the carbonext honesuki?

The Fujiwara and Jon's Ikkaku Honesuki are even cheaper than the DP. It'd be worth asking Jon what he thinks the differences are and why he carries what he carries.

JKerr
07-01-2012, 11:03 PM
Cheers for the feedback everyone. Sounding more and more tempting. Under the advice here, I reckon I will go cheap to start and look at the Tojiro or Fujiwara. Anyone have experience with Kanetsugu?

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers,
Josh

Kyle
07-02-2012, 10:52 AM
I got one of these as one of my first Japanese knives and it's been great for me. Don't have much to compare it to, but I like it.

http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/366.html

stereo.pete
07-02-2012, 05:31 PM
I have a Fujiwara stainless Honesuki and I absolutely love it. I purchased it early on in my sharpening career and I believe I have messed it up very slightly but I will fix it over time. She still cuts/breaks down primals like a boss though.

sachem allison
07-02-2012, 05:39 PM
have Spikec make you one of these. it's bad ass. I use it for breaking down birds, chopping herbs in a pinch and breaking down filets and strips. He can make it in single and double bevel and it is a joy to use.

mr drinky
07-02-2012, 05:54 PM
Son, do you regularly use the right side of your laptop as a cutting board? ;)

As far as customs go, Fowler made some nice ones a little while back. If you troll the other forum, you can probably find them posted. IIRC, the cost of them was about $325 for a 150mm and $350 for a 170mm. Also, Adam Marr did mine for under $300. Just offering up those as reasonably priced custom options.

k.

Justin0505
07-03-2012, 05:25 PM
Son, do you regularly use the right side of your laptop as a cutting board? ;)

As far as customs go, Fowler made some nice ones a little while back. If you troll the other forum, you can probably find them posted. IIRC, the cost of them was about $325 for a 150mm and $350 for a 170mm. Also, Adam Marr did mine for under $300. Just offering up those as reasonably priced custom options.

k.
+1 for either Marr or Fowler. Both do really nice work at "how are you making money on this?" prices. Fowler has really come a long way since he got into the game a shot while back, and Marr is kind of a sleeper IMO (not very well advertised, but a really skilled guy who's super nice to work with and fearless about trying our crazy ideas).

Fowler also made me a custom forged Honesuki/garasuki/deba-type thing to my own specs with extra length and weight and a jazzy hamon for just a little more than the **** ones. It rocks.

labor of love
07-03-2012, 06:32 PM
i understand the desire to have task specific tools but i honestly use my zakuri petty in place of a paring knife, boning knife, filet knife and a honesuki knife. and ofcourse anything a petty would be used for. i save my money to buy more gyutos :biggrin:

Justin0505
07-03-2012, 07:16 PM
Yeah, I go back and forth on my feelings about specialization. I process enough poultry that a quest for the poultry Excalibur seemed fun / justified. I totally understand the minimalist approach, but there's not exactly anything minimalist about the guys that have a dozen gyutos: each with subtle differences for use in slightly different applications, seasons, moon phases, days of the week, etc.

labor of love
07-03-2012, 08:12 PM
ofcourse you only need one gyuto. but no one here is making purchases based on what they need.

JKerr
07-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Yeah, I got to the point where I was struggling to make a decision over which gyuto to try next when I finally thought "F**k it, I've got enough gyutos. I touch up the rest of my kit". So boning knives, petties and suji's have become the priority for now.

I actually ended up picking up a tojiro gokujo which I think will fit my style better. Don't know why, but I completely forgot about that type of boning knife. Still considering the honesuki though so the feedback is appreciated.

Cheers,
Josh

labor of love
07-03-2012, 10:45 PM
well buy a 150 petty before you buy a boning knife. because i really prefer my petty over my boning knife for boning knife tasks. im refering to the straight boning knives not the curved ones.

SpikeC
07-03-2012, 10:47 PM
I prefer my Honesuki over my petty for small stuff.