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View Full Version : Zakuri, Kochi, Gesshin Ginga White Review Request



JanusInTheGarden
07-02-2012, 10:50 AM
Hey y'all,

Looking for some info on the above mentioned knives. I have a pretty good idea on how the Gesshin Ginga White will be (I have a buddy with Konosuke White and I can imagine that they are very comparable). Has anyone gotten the opportunity to play with the Kochi and the Zakuri? How does Kochi's V2 steel handle?

Thanks in advance! Always appreciate the info!

EdipisReks
07-02-2012, 11:20 AM
the Kochi V2 is awesome.

JanusInTheGarden
07-02-2012, 11:21 AM
Is the V2 steel similar to Takefu V2C?

EdipisReks
07-02-2012, 12:13 PM
same stuff, AFAIK. the think the C is slightly purer. i doubt there is much in it. V2 is one of my favorite steels.

tk59
07-02-2012, 12:28 PM
Yeah, the Kochi is a very nice and an excellent pure cutter. It cuts like a very, very thin knife but it's pretty stiff. It is a little tall... It's almost like a Takeda with tougher steel and impeccable fit and finish. The Zakuri (I've tried the AS which is not nearly as tough as the V2. There's some micro-chipping after cutting dry bread.) is a rougher finished, thick knife. It wedges some in larger, harder objects but it's also an excellent cutter. There is a little more stickage on the Kochi, as a result of the super thin geometry on the edge half of the blade.

JanusInTheGarden
07-02-2012, 02:13 PM
So basically the zakuri will wedge in potatoes and carrots but glides through everything else?

labor of love
07-02-2012, 02:42 PM
yep. thats pretty much the trade off in my experience. thicker knives will occasionally wedge and thinner knives with flatter grinds will get alot of stickage. the korouchi finish on the kochi looks cooler if memory serves, its like a spotted pattern. but zakuris korouchi is still way nicer than moritakas...theyre both good values at their price points.

JanusInTheGarden
07-02-2012, 02:56 PM
How does the Zakuri compare to a Hiromoto? I hated the thickness of the Hiromoto and the cladding I think had a lot to do with that...but I LOVED LOVED LOVED the steel. It was chippy but I was head over heels for how sharp it could get. I'm drawn to the Zakuri so I can have a knife in Aogami Super and Kurouchi, but I would be so excited if I could also have one that glides as easily through food as my Konosuke HD without being a laser.

pitonboy
07-02-2012, 03:30 PM
Three months ago if I had come across this post I would have thought it was crazy and I would not have understood the AS and Kurochi and such; NOW not only do I understand the terminology but care WAY too much about the answer.



How does the Zakuri compare to a Hiromoto? I hated the thickness of the Hiromoto and the cladding I think had a lot to do with that...but I LOVED LOVED LOVED the steel. It was chippy but I was head over heels for how sharp it could get. I'm drawn to the Zakuri so I can have a knife in Aogami Super and Kurouchi, but I would be so excited if I could also have one that glides as easily through food as my Konosuke HD without being a laser.

tk59
07-02-2012, 03:46 PM
In my experience, I don't particularly like Zakuri on large carrots and jicama or certain squash. Potatoes and even most sweet potatoes are fine. Hiromoto AS really doesn't compare. It's a very unremarkable knife, in my opinion. Even the AS on the Hiro is mediocre.

JanusInTheGarden
07-02-2012, 03:46 PM
Three months ago if I had come across this post I would have thought it was crazy and I would not have understood the AS and Kurochi and such; NOW not only do I understand the terminology but care WAY too much about the answer.

+1, but thats probably obvious. I'm also counting down the minutes until JKI opens so I can give Jon a call. I had to play phone tag with him last week--working in a kitchen on the East Coast makes the timing difficult.

tk59
07-02-2012, 04:07 PM
I just verified that there is no noticable wedging using this 240 Zakuri on large Russet potatoes. Home fries are in the oven.

Pensacola Tiger
07-02-2012, 04:20 PM
I've used both of them and my choice is the Kochi, for all of the reasons others have given.

Rick

chinacats
07-02-2012, 05:17 PM
How does the Kochi compare weight wise to the others?

Pensacola Tiger
07-02-2012, 05:41 PM
How does the Kochi compare weight wise to the others?

The Kochi I had an opportunity to use weighs 199 grams. The Zakuri is 216.

Noodle Soup
07-02-2012, 08:55 PM
I have a 270 mm Zakuri gyuto I like very much but I'm am not any kind of minimalist in my kitchen knives. I would rather have the right knife for every job and this one is my heavy duty slicing and chopping blade. No laser for sure but I don't always need one. It also gives a new meaning to "cow sword" with its huge handle.

Pensacola Tiger
07-02-2012, 10:13 PM
I've been asked to expand my answers in a PM, but I'll reply in the thread to allow everyone to see it.

The Kochi I have used is a kuro-uchi blade on generous loon from another forum member. It is one of the better kuro-uchi finishes I have seen, better than Zakuri, Moritaka, Takeda and Carter.

The Takefu V2 steel is the same steel that Yoshikane uses in his Tamamoku series of knives, and is the rough equivalent of Hitachi white #2. It sharpens just as easily, and in my experience, seems to have slightly better edge retention than the white #2 knives I've used - Konosuke, Masamoto and Carter. Gator has it listed in his steel database here: http://zknives.com/knives/steels/v2.shtml

Rick

99Limited
07-03-2012, 07:23 PM
Well Rick, what about the blade height? Do you think the Kochi is a tall blade? I asked Jon about it and he said it's 53mm. To me that's a little tall as I like knives between 46mm and 50mm. Granted an extra 3mm doesn't seem like that much, but my ideal height is 48mm. I really like the look of the Kochi and almost bought one until I found out how tall it is. I might just suck it up and get one anyway since in reality I seem to adjust to difference lengths and heights anyway.

labor of love
07-03-2012, 07:34 PM
is the 240mm or the 270mm 53mm tall?

99Limited
07-03-2012, 08:13 PM
is the 240mm or the 270mm 53mm tall?

It's the 240mm and the length, according to Jon, is 243mm.

Cutty Sharp
07-03-2012, 08:47 PM
It's the kurouchi you guys are discussing, right? Does anyone know its weight? Unusually, Jon has not listed the specs for the Kochis on his site.

Pensacola Tiger
07-03-2012, 08:51 PM
Well Rick, what about the blade height? Do you think the Kochi is a tall blade? I asked Jon about it and he said it's 53mm. To me that's a little tall as I like knives between 46mm and 50mm. Granted an extra 3mm doesn't seem like that much, but my ideal height is 48mm. I really like the look of the Kochi and almost bought one until I found out how tall it is. I might just suck it up and get one anyway since in reality I seem to adjust to difference lengths and heights anyway.

The one I used was a hair over 50mm. It didn't seem overly tall, and the height didn't cause any stiction issues, perhaps because of the combination of the grind and the kuro-uchi finish. If I was in the market for another 240, I'd jump on the Kochi.

Cutty Sharp
07-08-2012, 05:12 PM
... Ahh, I see. So the weight of a 240mm kurouchi is pretty much 200g. A certain site describes the knive as having 'a great in-hand feel... not too heavy, but not super light. Near the spine they seems to be more substanital, however, behind the edge, the are EXTREMELY thin.' So I'm imagining this knife as comforably between a heftier workhorse on one hand, and a laser on the other. Anyone know?

EdipisReks
07-08-2012, 06:21 PM
The one I used was a hair over 50mm. It didn't seem overly tall, and the height didn't cause any stiction issues, perhaps because of the combination of the grind and the kuro-uchi finish. If I was in the market for another 240, I'd jump on the Kochi.

that Kochi is a mm or two shorter than normal, due to a bad chip in the heel that i took out. even OOTB, it was no where near as tall as, say, my "normal" Takeda (it was about the same height as my abnormally short Takeda, actually).

EdipisReks
07-08-2012, 06:22 PM
... Ahh, I see. So the weight of a 240mm kurouchi is pretty much 200g. A certain site describes the knive as having 'a great in-hand feel... not too heavy, but not super light. Near the spine they seems to be more substanital, however, behind the edge, the are EXTREMELY thin.' So I'm imagining this knife as comforably between a heftier workhorse on one hand, and a laser on the other. Anyone know?

i would treat it much more like a laser, in use.

JBroida
07-08-2012, 06:32 PM
measurements coming later today...

Cutty Sharp
07-08-2012, 06:45 PM
measurements coming later today...

:D At last!

JBroida
07-08-2012, 07:01 PM
yeah... sorry for the delay. Getting orders placed and then taking measurements.

labor of love
07-08-2012, 07:34 PM
measurements would be great! down the road i hope you make a video for the kochi line. im a quite a fan of your videos.

JBroida
07-08-2012, 07:40 PM
i can probably do that... just gotta find the time. Starting measurements now...

JBroida
07-08-2012, 08:33 PM
measurements are up now