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AddictforLife
07-13-2012, 02:15 AM
I am kinda curious on how knife look like after years of use and sharpening. I don't think there is any photo on the web that shows a knife that has been use for ages and worn to the point where it almost at it's last breath.

i.e.
http://www.moritakahamono.com/en/ekusare_hikaku2_en.jpg

JBroida
07-13-2012, 02:42 AM
These are well over 60 years old
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/398956_10150835412083860_439047816_n.jpg

this was one about 10 years old and i restored it for someone
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/536109_10150769560078860_1939954029_n.jpg

knyfeknerd
07-13-2012, 08:01 AM
Jon, what can you tell us about those 60 year old blades? Very Very Very cool!

Cutty Sharp
07-13-2012, 10:15 AM
I saw some similar ones in Japan recently. I visited Tadatsuna, for example, and noticed a few old ones in the display room. I had a look at one, a yanagiba whose blade was sharpened down to about 1/2 of the original size (similar to the '15 year' photo above); wooden handle also had a dulled look. Mr Nagata said it was 20 years old and belonged to a chef, and so it had presumably been used on a daily basis for all that time, in which case you'd have to say it'd stood up well. Maybe there's a little tradition where chefs like this, when their prized knife has seen its day, return it to its maker when buying their new blade. I didn't ask if it was for sale, but guess it was kept there as a curio or to show how their knives would handle heavy use over time.

In other places I also saw lots of old blades being fixed up and/or rehandled. Some very rusted and neglected blades - home use, I would guess, and lots of santokus. With those in better condition, the kind whose owners maybe cared about them more and used them more frequently, the tangs would seem quite rusted out, in some cases to the extent that I'd wonder how strong they might be when re-handled. (Made me think about the advantages of welded-on stainless steel tangs, for sure.)

Seth
07-13-2012, 11:34 AM
Morimoto's book has a picture of his yanigiba hanging on by a thread.

JBroida
07-13-2012, 02:32 PM
Jon, what can you tell us about those 60 year old blades? Very Very Very cool!

i had a customer come in for a sharpening class a while back and these were his fathers blades... he's japanese american and they had been passed down to him. Actually, it was a really cool/sad story. He told me his family cooked for people at manzanar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanar )... so there's a good chance these knives were used there. Right now, one of the craftsmen we work with is refurbing them for him... he saw them while he was out here visiting and decided he waned to help out by restoring them. Cant wait to see how they turn out.

la2tokyo
07-13-2012, 07:16 PM
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28428060/photo.JPG

300mm Yanagi. The two on the right are mine. The one in the middle I used a lot for about eight years.

la2tokyo
07-13-2012, 07:18 PM
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28428060/photo2.JPG

Moribashi. Not mine. I don't know how long it takes to wear down an ebony handle by 40%, but I suspect it's a long time.

la2tokyo
07-13-2012, 07:19 PM
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28428060/photo3.JPG

Deba, not mine. I think it's been through about ten years of hard work.

la2tokyo
07-13-2012, 07:21 PM
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28428060/photo4.JPG

This one is riduculous. I think these are the same size, 330mm? The owner still uses this every day. He is the cheapest bastard I have ever met.

BTW, Dave, I could use a sharpening tip! How would you shape the tip of this gyuto? It's giving us a little bit of a problem.

knyfeknerd
07-13-2012, 08:17 PM
This is a very cool thread. Thanks everyone for contributing. I'll take some pics of my boss's $h1tball germans when I get back from vacation.

AddictforLife
07-14-2012, 01:37 AM
These picture are so very cool. I love how cool old used knives are. You have.to be kidding that he still uses that tiny knife. I though I was cheap for thinking wear down a gyuto to a Sujihiki, never thought people does do it. I have hope to wear down my Sujihiki to a petty now.

bieniek
07-14-2012, 10:44 AM
I love it! keep it coming!

Seth
07-14-2012, 11:16 AM
Jon - I really do think that you, with connections with Japan, could do a great book on history, construction, use, of j- knives. I'll edit; I write good.

markenki
07-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Morimoto's book has a picture of his yanigiba hanging on by a thread.
This.

Chifunda
07-14-2012, 02:50 PM
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p508/Chifunda/Semiskinner.jpg

"This badly worn knife was returned to Loveless by a professional hunter with the request for another just like it. He enumerated the many kills the knife had skinned and Loveless, who likes to see his knives used, was so impressed he sent the replacement gratis."

Photo and quote from Living on the Edge by Al Williams.

Crothcipt
07-14-2012, 08:34 PM
Now that is loving the knife.

sachem allison
07-15-2012, 12:24 AM
I am kinda curious on how knife look like after years of use and sharpening. I don't think there is any photo on the web that shows a knife that has been use for ages and worn to the point where it almost at it's last breath.

i.e.
http://www.moritakahamono.com/en/ekusare_hikaku2_en.jpg

you should check out pretty much most of my knife posts and you will see what happens to aged knives.lol

cookinstuff
07-15-2012, 12:40 AM
Hey Son, you break them down and build them back up to their former beauty though! I enjoy seeing used old knives, and I really enjoy seeing those knives you have refurbished and what was once a worker in the kitchen returns to it's glory. Obviously these knives aren't getting refurbished though..... great post.

DwarvenChef
07-15-2012, 03:05 AM
Love seeing vintage knives. But I run into a kind of "At Odds" feeling when I see them worn down do much. Being a minimalist sharpener I only remove enough material to get the job done and most of my knives show little to no wear, short of my Hiromoto HC gyuto on which I learned how to use a Japanese knife and, lol, how to repair my boo-boo's :p . A few knives I have had almost 8 years (or has it been longer..) and have used almost daily with next to to wear.

One thing I do when looking at older blades is to wonder how they where used and how they may have been sharpened. I picked this up from my work with vintage straight razors. It really is facinating to look at the blade marks and wear patterns and reconstruct how it was used and abused :p

markenki
07-15-2012, 03:45 AM
He told me his family cooked for people at manzanar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanar )... so there's a good chance these knives were used there.
We had a family friend, Chiye Mori (Oshima was her married name), who was incarcerated there. Perhaps your friend's family cooked for her. Small world.

JBroida
07-15-2012, 03:48 AM
they may have been incarcerated together then

DwarvenChef
07-15-2012, 04:06 AM
Will have to add that site to my list of Bike Tours I need to do before leaving CA.

knyfeknerd
07-15-2012, 10:52 AM
Right now, one of the craftsmen we work with is refurbing them for him... he saw them while he was out here visiting and decided he waned to help out by restoring them. Cant wait to see how they turn out.

Can't wait to see as well. That's some serious history there.

Seth
07-15-2012, 12:03 PM
There seems to be a fair number of Masamotos in these pictures. I wonder if it is or was the most popular working chef's knife brand?

JBroida
07-15-2012, 01:23 PM
for many years it has been the standard go to (due to accessibility among other things)

Eamon Burke
07-15-2012, 06:21 PM
This thread rules. It's so nice to see these things being used and used. I sharpened a guy's swiss army knife at the market a few weeks back that was WAY thinner than it used to be. I love to see a knife getting used up.

Most of the time, knives get retired early due to ignorance, lack of interest, damage(dropped the Honyaki on the tile floor), or neglect rusts them out, and in the bin they go. Also, sometimes there are knives that are just not worth the effort to repair. Case in point:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w0eUVNR8E-E/T_eOcjG-T4I/AAAAAAAAAkw/O057nDMH3Gk/s640/2012-07-06%252020.18.04.jpg

You can ask Heath Besch how jacked up that knife is. I was asked to fix it, but the backside hollow is only about 1/3 of the way to the tip now, what little is left of the shinogi is totally doing it's own thing, the handle is warped, cracked, split and separated with old fish and finger crud in every crevice, the heel is underground by like 1cm, and, of course the tip looks like ^that^. I was like "Uh...this can maybe go to an actual Japanese Bladesmith, but it might just be more practical to melt it down and start over.

eshua
07-18-2012, 06:35 PM
Most of the guys at work have knives pretty well worn. I might not keep them the shiniest, but I can say is that mine don't birds beak like some of the others. Here's a few pics of my single bevel ones. Note the original 270 saya next to them as comparison.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z378/Josh_Wentworth/009.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z378/Josh_Wentworth/010.jpg

And another to show the handle on the ajikiri...sorry for quality just got my first smart phone and wanted to try out the camera.

knyfeknerd
07-18-2012, 06:45 PM
I only see 1 pic

Crothcipt
07-18-2012, 06:45 PM
well good quality, and nothing out of focus. I don't think you have to be sorry for anything. In fact great pics. for a cell phone.

chinacats
07-18-2012, 06:52 PM
Wow Eshua, those are definitely some well worn knives...and they still look great!

bieniek
07-20-2012, 05:30 AM
Fantastic pics Eshua! Fantastic knives.

Dont see it here very often. Good to know there are chefs around!

ecchef
07-22-2012, 05:16 AM
87498750875187528753

Messy Jesse
07-22-2012, 08:14 PM
These are well over 60 years old
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/398956_10150835412083860_439047816_n.jpg

These are absolutely amazing! Any more info on them? What are the sizes and steel? All of them Masamoto?

chinacats
07-22-2012, 09:23 PM
87498750875187528753
first one looks like I imagine my nogent sab will look like in about 10 years if i keep sharpening this often; 2nd one looks like it is worn into a honesuki profile...are these all French?

EdipisReks
07-22-2012, 09:39 PM
first one looks like I imagine my nogent sab will look like in about 10 years if i keep sharpening this often;

not if you do it properly! it shocks me how many old Sabs, and similar, that i see pictures of where the bolster never got ground down. it's endemic.

chinacats
07-22-2012, 10:38 PM
not if you do it properly! it shocks me how many old Sabs, and similar, that i see pictures of where the bolster never got ground down. it's endemic.

Mine is going off to Dave for some overhaul work soon...mainly in the bolster area. Even on a 220 stone (pink from EE) just seems too much steel to remove by hand? Is there a better way?

EdipisReks
07-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Mine is going off to Dave for some overhaul work soon...mainly in the bolster area. Even on a 220 stone (pink from EE) just seems too much steel to remove by hand? Is there a better way?

you really just need to get the bolster a bit higher than the edge line, and then you're good to go (as long as you are fine with having a couple millimeters of edge unsharpened, in front of the bolster). not a very good pic, but here is the heel of my Thiers-Issard Nogent chef knife:

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1751/dsc2144wp.jpg

chinacats
07-22-2012, 11:48 PM
Thanks Edipis!
That looks like what I am trying to accomplish...how did you grind it? I figure using anything other than a stone and I risk damaging the HT--even thought about taking mine to the sidewalk.:O

EdipisReks
07-23-2012, 12:29 AM
a DMT extra coarse eats the steel pretty quickly. a sidewalk would work, if you found a place with enough clearance to angle the handle down. i'd like to get rid of most of the bolsters on my various Sabs a la Dave's fantastic work, but it's not really necessary to get good service from the knives.

ecchef
07-23-2012, 01:45 AM
first one looks like I imagine my nogent sab will look like in about 10 years if i keep sharpening this often; 2nd one looks like it is worn into a honesuki profile...are these all French?

Both of these started out pretty hammered. I turned the Pouzet into my specialized turkey boning knife that sees action a few weeks out of the year.
The other is a Dexter Russell that was rather triangular when I got it, so I just ground down the bolsters, straightened the edge and put a single bevel on it. Frankensuke.