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View Full Version : who makes the hardest white steel laser?



EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 04:00 PM
i recently traded a Yoshikane V2 kitaeji for a Konosuke suji and petty, and those knives make me want to get a laser gyuto again. i used to own a Konosuke white 2 gyuto and the main thing wrong with it, other than a bit more belly than i like, was that it seemed much softer than my Shigefusa or my then Akifusa gyutos, which are my benchmarks. the Masamoto KS i owned seemed to hold an edge better than the Kono, and i believe those are nominally the same hardness on the same steel. my current carbon gyutos (two Takedas, a Shig and a Kochi) are much thinner at the edge than the Konosuke gyuto was, but they never roll over the way the Kono gyuto did (the Kono suji, which i've been using as a general purpose knife, hasn't had the issue, so maybe i just got a bad Kono gyuto, or they have changed things). assuming that my Konosuke gyuto experience was average, are there any companies making lasers who are hardening past 62? on Gator's site the Tadatsuna is listed at higher than that, but it's the only time i've seen Tadatsuna HRC values listed, so i'm not sure if it's correct or not (no offense, Gator, i just want confirmation). i don't abuse my knives, and i cut in a way that minimizes board contact as much as possible, so maybe i did just have a bum knife (i sold the Kono to a friend, and he hasn't had any problems that he has mentioned, but he sharpens every day). any ideas?

Keith Neal
07-14-2012, 05:06 PM
Carter's white #1 knives are quoted at 63-64. They get remarkably sharp, and are quite thin.

EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 05:28 PM
clad knives aren't what i'm looking at, as i have plenty. thanks, though.

schanop
07-14-2012, 06:03 PM
How about white shell honyaki, something like this (http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/sakai-masayuki-wa-gyuto-honyaki-white-iii-steel-210mm-blade-kn210.html)? JBroida said one time that a white III honyaki has its place in kitchen knife world.

EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 06:08 PM
a lot more than i want to spend, and it's my impression that honyaki blades aren't lasers (the one honkaki gyuto i've used certainly wasn't). thanks, though.

schanop
07-14-2012, 06:18 PM
That honyaki is listed 2.8 within the same range as masa KS, although it is a shorty.

Perhaps, you can try a custom heat treatment order via Ashi hamono or Sakai yusuke.

Crothcipt
07-14-2012, 07:36 PM
I'm not sure how close to a laser this would be. I just looked and a Tanaka is listed at 63+. I know my santoku was listed at 65. Hope this helps.

Marko Tsourkan
07-14-2012, 07:45 PM
Is White steel a must? Hard often implies brittle (and chippy).

M

Crothcipt
07-14-2012, 07:48 PM
I just realized Tanaka uses blue.

EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 10:57 PM
Is White steel a must? Hard often implies brittle (and chippy).

M

i haven't seen lasers in anything but stainless, which i don't want, or white. i don't want anything over 2mms or so, as i have plenty of non lasers.

labor of love
07-14-2012, 11:06 PM
i dont think what youre looking for exists, white steel may have poor edge stability no matter how its treated. maybe look at a Marko carbon laser?

EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 11:33 PM
i have some difficulty typing, as i broke my right hand tonight: i have had an have other white steel knives that haven't had the issue that the one knife had, so i think it can exist. if the Tadatsunas are as hard as Gator reported, and i tend to trust him, that should do it.

JBroida
07-14-2012, 11:34 PM
its my experience that the tadatsunas are no harder than the other monosteel white #2 knives we commonly see

EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 11:37 PM
its my experience that the tadatsunas are no harder than the other monosteel white #2 knives we commonly see

ok, then. thanks Jon! are there knives, including Marko's thinner knives, that are lasers in different steels? i can always just use the Kono suji, as it is tall enough, at least for right now.

sachem allison
07-14-2012, 11:44 PM
i have some difficulty typing, as i broke my right hand tonight: i have had an have other white steel knives that haven't had the issue that the one knife had, so i think it can exist. if the Tadatsunas are as hard as Gator reported, and i tend to trust him, that should do it.

hope your hand heals fine.

Marko Tsourkan
07-14-2012, 11:49 PM
I am not big fan of lasers, mainly because I don't like flex at the handle, and at 2mm thickness, some flex is unavailable.

I do however like when a knife transitions from a full thickness at the handle to 2.5-3mm over the heel, and from there, it gets progressively thinner, with about 1.5mm 2" from the tip and about 2mm half the way on the spine. With proper geometry, mid section is thin, and above the edge is very thin. For me this would be a laser.

As I mentioned before, high hardness is often accompanied with brittleness and not very stable edge (chips), and one has to set bevels or microbevels at more obtuse angle to address chipping. A steel with good wear resistance is plenty hard at 62-63RC, and in this hardness range, the edge is pretty stable and edge retention is excellent.

EdipisReks
07-14-2012, 11:51 PM
I am not big fan of lasers, mainly because I don't like flex at the handle, and at 2mm thickness, some flex is unavailable.

I do however like when a knife transitions from a full thickness at the handle to 2.5-3mm over the heel, and from there, it gets progressively thinner, with about 1.5mm 2" from the tip and about 2mm half the way on the spine. With proper geometry, mid section is thin, and above the edge is very thin. For me this would be a laser.

As I mentioned before, high hardness is often accompanied with brittleness and not very stable edge (chips), and one has to set bevels or microbevels at more obtuse angle to address chipping. A steel with good wear resistance is plenty hard at 62-63RC, and in this hardness range, the edge is pretty stable and edge retention is excellent.

i know exactly what i'm asking for when i ask for a hard laser. :)

EdipisReks
07-15-2012, 12:11 AM
hey Marko, your inbox is full, so i'll just say thanks for the kind words, here!

Johnny.B.Good
07-15-2012, 12:52 AM
Take care of that hand Edipis. Ouch.

What did you punch? ;)

EdipisReks
07-15-2012, 12:53 AM
What did you punch? ;)

the wall that was in the way of my falling. not sexy.

Cipcich
07-15-2012, 04:53 AM
Ha. I like this quest. I have a W#2 Tad and concur with Jon. I looked at the Aframes knife too.
Carters are harder, but if they don't fit the bill . . Sadayusas are really hard, but not lasers.
I'm waiting on an exceptionally hard knife from Marko. I don't think he really believes it's a good idea, but he's humoring me. As long as I don't drop it, it should be cool.