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welshstar
07-15-2012, 02:42 AM
Hi

I might have asked this before so forgive me

What are the main differences bewteen a Usaba and Nakiri please

Alan

JBroida
07-15-2012, 02:44 AM
usuba is a single bevel knife geared towards professional cooks wheras nakiri is a double bevel thin knife geared towards cutting veggies in home kitchens.

DwarvenChef
07-15-2012, 03:12 AM
As Jon pointed out, the usuba is a heavy bodied blade for robust use and the nakiri is waffer thin and not much for the line as mush as it is better suited for home use. I have both and if I'm cutting a large amount of veg I'll break out the usuba but not for small jobs.

I love both my nakiri (CarterKU180) and my usuba (konusukiKU165) but for very different uses as stated above. Idealy I would like my two knives size swapped out having a shorter nakiri and a longer usuba but I really can't argue they are both great knives.

VoodooMajik
07-15-2012, 03:27 AM
Usaba is more specialized, though I haven't used one.

I use my Nakiri on the line, and for many things in place of gyuto's some days, depending on my mood. I only have a cheapy but am still happy with the purchase

Not sure about a nakiri being "Waffle" thin unless compared to thick spined single bevels. Might need to check out an Usaba though

Andrew H
07-15-2012, 03:35 AM
As Jon pointed out, the usuba is a heavy bodied blade for robust use and the nakiri is waffer thin and not much for the line as mush as it is better suited for home use. I have both and if I'm cutting a large amount of veg I'll break out the usuba but not for.

I always thought usuba were more delicate and therefore only professionals used them.

JBroida
07-15-2012, 03:37 AM
usuba is thicker at the spine, but the edge is very thin and delicate.

DwarvenChef
07-15-2012, 03:48 AM
usuba is thicker at the spine, but the edge is very thin and delicate.

Most single bevel edges are thin, very true, but i have yet to get a knife with a thinner edge than my Carter Nakiri LOL. Although the Kochi gyuto comes close to it at the edge, the Carter nakiri is just crazy thin from spine to edge.

EdipisReks
07-15-2012, 12:42 PM
Most single bevel edges are thin, very true, but i have yet to get a knife with a thinner edge than my Carter Nakiri LOL. Although the Kochi gyuto comes close to it at the edge, the Carter nakiri is just crazy thin from spine to edge.

my usuba's edge is substantially thinner than my Kochi was OOTB. other usubas i've handled have been the same.

James
07-15-2012, 12:57 PM
I've been curious about this too. Are usuba only used to make paper thing slices or are they relegated to heavier tasks as well?

Taz575
07-15-2012, 01:10 PM
I have a few Nakiri's, but no Usuba. I like my Nakiri's for home cooking, which is all I do. They fly thru the veggies easily with little sticking or wedging. Most of my gyuto's stick or wedge too much for me in potatoes and onions and stuff like that, so the Nakiri works better. I am having a custom Nakiri blade made up for me by Randy Haas with a longer blade, between 7 and 8" long blade :) Having the Nakiri for veggies lets me leave the gyuto for the proteins and stuff; gyuto has a slightly more toothy edge and the Nakiri is the one I polish up more.

With the Usuba, I was under the impression that it was more specialized for more delicate work, not necessarily for the "pro kitchen high volume" environment. Sushi environment, yes. I don't think a Usuba would do well cutting onions and stuff with the thicker spine and single bevel, but I may be wrong since I haven't gotten to handle/use one yet.

JBroida
07-15-2012, 01:22 PM
usuba is used for katsuramuki, ken cuts, tournes, garnish work, slicing veggies, cutting negi, sasagaki, and similar tasks in professional environments (high volume and not)

Taz575
07-15-2012, 01:25 PM
See, I was wrong!! For some reason, I though it was more of a delicate knife and not the best for high volume stuff, board cutting, that type of thing.

JBroida
07-15-2012, 01:30 PM
so many people in the US think its a delicate knife only used on rare occasions because so few people here know how to use them well, end up buying them, and watch them chip like crazy or change shape as they sharpen. It takes a little learning and practice, but they are absolutely built for real use... they often see board contact, high volume, etc.

knyfeknerd
07-15-2012, 01:36 PM
The nakiri(depending on the maker/steel/ht/etc) is a tougher knife. I am not a sushi chef. I use my usuba for super-fine and delicate tasks- julienne, micro-dice of veg, and still trying to master katsuramuki. Not great for onions because of the thickness of the spine, and it's not a BANG BANG BANG on the cutting board kinda knife. Some serious steering on an usuba as well. The usuba's edge is more delicate, but probably the sharpest in my kit to boot. I wouldn't get (an expensive) one unless you really have the need for it.

Seth
07-15-2012, 01:49 PM
It also depends on the particular maker or model, for Usubas. I have a suisin ginsanko which is pretty robust and thick on the spine. I also have a nenohi which is larger but thinner and is of a delicate and super sharp type. It will chip and keeping a straight edge when sharpening is a challenge (and good for technique practice). The nenohi is excellent with onions and will do both horizontal and vertical cuts with no wedging or resistance. The point being that you would have to pay close attention to each individual usuba as the two I have are very different in abilities. Some of our friends down under have shig usubas which are very very thin.

Taz575
07-15-2012, 03:25 PM
Yeah, when I was first looking at the Nakiri vs Usuba debate online, I learned that the usuba is more delicate/specialized and not as good of a general veggie knife and the Nakiri was much better for veggies and stuff and would be easier to use and take care of. Maybe now I need a Usuba? :)

VoodooMajik
07-15-2012, 03:46 PM
+1, I'm thinking the same in the near future Taz.

Seth
07-15-2012, 06:18 PM
You also have to keep in mind, maybe obvious, that nikiris usually have a little bit of a belly and usubas are flat on the edge - big difference in use. (Although, I have taken one of my usubas and put a tiny belly - like 1mm across 220mm. The verdict is out on that one.)

Crothcipt
07-15-2012, 07:42 PM
It sounds like I better buy that usaba first.

JBroida
07-15-2012, 07:46 PM
You also have to keep in mind, maybe obvious, that nikiris usually have a little bit of a belly and usubas are flat on the edge - big difference in use. (Although, I have taken one of my usubas and put a tiny belly - like 1mm across 220mm. The verdict is out on that one.)

a very slight curve up at the tip of a kamagata usuba (about a mm or so) is pretty common and helps out with some common techniques

Namaxy
07-15-2012, 07:56 PM
usuba is used for katsuramuki, ken cuts, tournes, garnish work, slicing veggies, cutting negi, sasagaki, and similar tasks in professional environments (high volume and not)

Valued point. I use my Usuba almost exclusively for cucumber and daikon katsuramuki. Most other veggie tasks I use my Nakiri. And I must be completely off the map, because the few times I've tried traditional sasagaki I used a petty....:(

Sarge
07-15-2012, 08:11 PM
a very slight curve up at the tip of a kamagata usuba (about a mm or so) is pretty common and helps out with some common techniques

I did not know that. I'm craving a usuba badly right now my Kiritsuke suffices for now though luckily

JBroida
07-15-2012, 08:13 PM
VERY SLIGHT... i should take a picture of one of mine one of these days to show what i mean

keithsaltydog
07-16-2012, 01:29 AM
a very slight curve up at the tip of a kamagata usuba (about a mm or so) is pretty common and helps out with some common techniques

Yes John when I decided went with the Kamagata,I like the looks of the drop nose as well.I like using & sharpening it.When I got my first yanagi almost 10 yrs. ago,I went to two diff. Japan Trained Sushi Chefs before I even touched it to the stones.It was the most expensive blade I had bought up to that time & did not want to screw it up.

You can mess up a Japan SB using uneven stones.Over flattening the backside hollow grind(Urasuki)is a common mistake,that lessens the effectiveness of the Urasuke.

The guys I learned from do not use a blended or micro bevel.The single bevel shinogi line meeting the hollow gr. backside wt high quality White & Blue carbon steels makes for edges unsurpassed in other knives.

If you are used to western knives,the Nikiri might be a better choice.If you do decide to go wt. a Japan SB,you must take the time to learn how to sharpen it first.I have seen persons on forums knocking Chiharu Sugai's Korin DVD.I think it is unfair the problem is much of it is in Japanese & some is lost in translation.There is alot of excellent information If you watch what he is doing.The tech for Yanagi translates over to Deba & Usuba.I am sure it is the same wt. the Kiritsuke tho I have never sharpened one of those yet.:O

DwarvenChef
07-16-2012, 02:21 AM
When I'm using my usuba for higher volume (at home only) it is used for fine dice, nothing thick at all. Thin slicing is what I see an usuba specialty, whether it be sheets or just fine dice. When I fine dice with my nakiri's I end up with alot stuck to the blade not so much on the usuba, but being a very coarse KU finish I don't expect anything to stick to my usuba :p

ThEoRy
07-16-2012, 11:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqUt-qkxjuw

Mucho Bocho
07-16-2012, 04:04 PM
Knyfnerd, Your right on the money with your feedback. I bought a blue #2 hon Kasumi Usuba about six months ago and use it just like you mentioned. There is nothing better for slicing garlic, absolute transparent slices. also good point, its not supposed to a bang bang bang on the board either. I've watched Jon's Usuba video maybe a hundred times (might be the best video out there). Notice how Udae cuts green onions with almost no board banging. Just a little kiss of the blade on the board. Its a fun knife to use and i'm trying to get the most from it. heck cost me $250, she aint going to sit around and get fat in my houshold. Get to work i say.

schanop
07-16-2012, 06:31 PM
How's the verdict for your usuba grind and build?

Mucho Bocho
07-16-2012, 07:22 PM
Lets say that, I've had enough drama with my knife pursuits to host three seasons of prime time for FOX. But the Usuba has excellent primary and secondary grind. Can be sharpened as a single should, shinogi is strait. Deba, Had to put a micro bevel on the back maybe 5% of the right side good primary and secondary, been polishing with my fingerstones. Like I know what the hell i'm doing but it feels good. ;)

I'm also having some drama with my Yusuke White 210 Guy Ultrathin too. I'm not going to comment further until I hear from Keiichi.

Eamon Burke
07-16-2012, 07:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqUt-qkxjuw

I think about this all the time, best office moment ever. But the idea of an Usuba on a griddle makes me cringe nonetheless.

It is a Nakiri, though.

Noodle Soup
07-16-2012, 08:00 PM
Kind of what I thought too Eamon.