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View Full Version : Help selecting a wa-petty....please.



Zwiefel
07-22-2012, 12:54 AM
Greetings all! I am slowly learning about jKnives and improving my collection/knowledge/skills around them.

Right now, my go to knife is the 240MM Suisin Inox Honyaki...and I'm quite pleased with it but there are tasks that I end up going to my Henckel's for b/c the SIH is probably too delicate for (could be wrong).

Also, 210mm is my shortest good knife...although I do have a 4" Henckels Paring knife, altogether different from a wa-petty though (I would think).

I think a 120-180mm wa-petty would fill this hole nicely, but am not sure what I want/need. I need it to be a bit more "rugged" than my laser gyutous. I'm thinking about a first departure from stainless but have no idea what the different blue/white/carbon steels are or about care for them.

I would probably use it for many of the same slicing/chopping/mincing activities as my gyutos (smaller volumes and smaller board), as well as deboning chicken and pork shoulders, and grinding garlic (one of the things I'm afraid to do with my SIH).

I've been looking through the wa-petty's at JKI (Jon is awesome) and have identified a few that interest me. As I haven't been able to touch them or ask specific questions about them (feel like it's too early in my R+D to bug Jon), I'm going on what looks nice to me, as well as the reviews I have read for them:

Amazingly beautiful (and I'm sure a superb tool):
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/gesshin-heiji-150mm-kurouchi-damascus-semi-stainless-wa-petty.html

More affordable, but also quite attractive:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kochi-150mm-kurouchi-wa-petty.html

I've read this one is a bit more rugged:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/zakuri-150mm-blue-super-kurouchi-wa-petty.html

Of course, I'm open to other suggestions as well. I'm interested more in learning how to select one of these than just a recommendation...though a recommendation will not be taken amiss :lol2:

Any input on this choice?

Thanks!

Oops, I forgot about the questionnaire:

What grip do you use?
Religuous pinch grip user

What kind of cutting motion do you use?
Depends on what I'm cutting: slicing motion, tip rock...don't usually chop, makes me shudder to hear the edge hit the board! :scared4:

Where do you store them?
Depends: block, saya in drawer, box in drawer

Have you ever oiled a handle?
No, but happy to learn.

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?
wood, non-end grain....looking at something from boardsmith for an upgrade.

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?
nothing. :O I have ceramic stone to put a new edge on, but have nothing for "honing"

Have they ever been sharpened?
Yes. probably poorly, by me.

What is your budget?
call it $500.

What do you cook and how often?
Indian, Cajun, American, Chinese, Japanese. all kinds of veg + protein + fruit + starch.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?
None.

Zwiefel
07-22-2012, 03:21 AM
Also important to mention: I'm a lefty.

Namaxy
07-22-2012, 05:51 AM
Since you're looking at JKI, consider the Gengetsu as well. And honestly, call Jon. This is what he does, and his favorite way to help is on the phone vs e-mail.

wenus2
07-22-2012, 02:34 PM
There's a Takeda that fits the "heavy" and carbon desire.

Maybe not quite and all-a rounder though

That Zakuri at JKI in blue 1 is prolly a good place to start. IMO you should covet the Heiji for a while and work up to it (carbon-wise)

Zwiefel
07-22-2012, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the response!


There's a Takeda that fits the "heavy" and carbon desire.

Do you have a link for it?


That Zakuri at JKI in blue 1 is prolly a good place to start.

I do like that one...why not the blue super though? What is the difference in the steels?


IMO you should covet the Heiji for a while and work up to it (carbon-wise)

I'm cheap in a weird way...I'd rather just go ahead and buy the thing I'm likely to end up with instead of "graduating" to it...

You think it would be a bad idea to just go directly to the Heiji? why?

wenus2
07-23-2012, 03:12 PM
Thanks for the response!
1. Do you have a link for it?
2. I do like that one...why not the blue super though?
3. You think it would be a bad idea to just go directly to the Heiji? why?

1. Sorry, I meant to say it was in the BST section, but it appears now SPF.
2. Because its not in stock, and actual in use differences are minuscule IMO
3. Because you won't be able to fully appreciate it, and you will have essentially nowhere to go for an upgrade. There will just be different and worse, which makes me sad. Also, if you're not used to dealing with carbon, it doesn't seem kosher to cut your teeth on such a piece of art.

JasonD
07-23-2012, 08:39 PM
$500 is custom money for a knife of this size. If you don't find something you love, find someone to make it for you. Biggest drawback would be the wait time.

That said, I've got my eye on everything Kochi lately. Looks like a killer knife.

Zwiefel
07-23-2012, 09:19 PM
1. Sorry, I meant to say it was in the BST section, but it appears now SPF.

Can you recommend a vendor? I'm mostly familiar with JKI and Korin, but I couldn't find this product on either site.


3. Because you won't be able to fully appreciate it, and you will have essentially nowhere to go for an upgrade. There will just be different and worse, which makes me sad. Also, if you're not used to dealing with carbon, it doesn't seem kosher to cut your teeth on such a piece of art.

Kinda like purchasing a 16yo kid a ferrari? My fear is not about being unable to appreciate it (I'll grow into it) but damaging it somehow b/c of no experience with carbon steel.

Benuser
07-24-2012, 11:10 AM
You may very well use a rod to sharpen a symmetric European blade. You renew the very edge - and once a year or so you send it out for thinning.
Most J-knives are lighter, thinner and asymmetric. The Misono you mentioned is strongly right-biased, with a large convex bevel at the right side and a very small one at left. If you sharpen just the very edge you change all the existing proportions, and soon steering and wedging will occur. Proper sharpening means abrading some material and restoring these proportions. A sharpening job may start very well at some .5" above the very edge, thinning somewhat and working down to the very edge maintaining its convexity by varying the angle. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect this to be done with a rod.

Benuser
07-24-2012, 11:16 AM
I'm very sorry, was meant for another thread!

Benuser
07-24-2012, 11:19 AM
I'm very sorry, was meant in another thread! Dear moderator, could you remove it?

wenus2
07-25-2012, 10:19 PM
Kinda like purchasing a 16yo kid a ferrari?

Yep, just like that.
But I guess hey, if you got it flaunt it?


I'm not much help on vendor advice.
Its been quite a while since I purchased anything that wasn't from JKI, off the BST forum here, or direct from the maker.
And personally, I'm happy sticking with that.

keithsaltydog
07-26-2012, 02:55 AM
I do not think you want to use a thin edged carbon petty to debone chix & pork shoulders.Thin blades like your Suisin INOX are very good cutters,peelers,slicers for most types of food.Thin profiles glide through food better than thick blades.I would not worry about doing a forward push cut or chop wt. your Suisin esp. on a wooden cutting board.

Where thin blades do not do well is hitting hard things like bone,also you should not twist or tork a thin edge blade.Since you are a lefty you might get a good quality 50/50 boning knife for your deboning duties.

It's great that you want to try carbon,the advantage of carbon is it works well & gets very sharp on the stones.

tk59
07-26-2012, 03:06 PM
I like my Heiji at that length, over the thin guys. You should put a microbevel on it though so it doesn't chip.

Zwiefel
07-27-2012, 11:23 AM
I like my Heiji at that length, over the thin guys. You should put a microbevel on it though so it doesn't chip.

That's a really good thought. I understand the concept...but I'll have to find Jon's video on that again before giving it a go.

TX!

wenus2
07-27-2012, 02:06 PM
Did you buy one?

Zwiefel
07-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Did you buy one?

No. Just starting a conversation with Jon@JKI.

Zwiefel
08-01-2012, 12:25 PM
After talking with Jon (super nice guy, very patient with my noobness) and sleeping on it a couple of nights I decided on the Gengetsu in White #2 @ 180MM. Thought a lot about 150 vs 180 and compared them on the boards I use and decided that since I've gone 240 on the gyuto (probably 270 on the next one), 180 on the petty should be fine...I do very little work "in hand" and what little I do I've been OK doing with my 240 so this should be easier.

Now the 1st wait begins (for the package to arrive)...then the wait for the patina can begin ^_^

Thanks to everyone for responding (and, of course, to Jon for his help)!

Johnny.B.Good
08-01-2012, 04:15 PM
Congrats on pulling the trigger Zwiefel.

Let us know how it works out for you once you've had a chance to use it a little.

Zwiefel
08-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Box just arrived from JKI today:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8425/7729076786_d58cfeb458_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7277/7729074668_63b086cb28_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8286/7729072634_2f0dd99ccb_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8292/7729065690_895bce55be_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7729060788_d4f8feb55b_b.jpg
The edge is really difficult to photograph, after about 30 attempts I settled on this shot:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8434/7729056140_c8fd55bea7_b.jpg

Very pleased with cosmetics, fit/finish, weight/balance, etc. Haven't put it to use yet, will do that with dinner tonight!

Sea scallops sauteed in butter, salad of baby spinach, vine ripened tomatoes, cucumber with homemade dressing of fresh garlic paste/evoo/mustard/lemon juice, and maybe some (frozen) garlic toast.

wenus2
08-06-2012, 08:50 PM
thats a sweet little knife, congrats. It's exactly what I would have bought if I were in the same market.
I'm a little jealous. :thumbsup:

Zwiefel
08-10-2012, 05:35 PM
I finally got to do a reasonable amount of work with it last night. 5lbs of fruit salad....wanted to give it a good go so I put in some extra time to make nice, small pieces so that a single spoonful could hold a little of everything: 1 whole cantalope, 1 whole pineapple, 3 pears, 1 peach, 2 green apples, 1 quart strawberries, 1 pint blueberries, 1 golden kiwi, 2 oranges...and probably a couple of other things I forgot.

It turned out to be a better test than I first thought as the range of textures and contrast in textures was high, as well as the number of different cutting motions required to prep the different items.

In short, all tasks were performed quite satisfactorily. Since this is my first petty, I got to know a bit about how to use the different parts of the blade for different tasks (not exactly the same distribution as a chef's/gyuto which I'm very accustomed to). Also, b/c of blade height, and the relatively short curve to the tip, I was forced to depart from my usual rock-n-chop/slice motions and to use more pure slicing and push-cutting motions. Going to need some work on my part to get more comfortable and proficient with push-cutting, I still wince everytime I hear the edge smack the board (but at least I'm developing my skills on the stones in parallel :biggrin:).

I keep wanting to compare it to my last purchase, a 240mm Suisin Inox Honyaki wa-gyuto, but they have very little in common except being wickedly sharp. The Gengetsu glides right through everything, but doesn't have that puppy-dog eagerness and immediacy of the SIH. It seems more calm and self-assured. OK, enough anthropomorphizing.

I'm also liking the burnt chestnut wa-handle more and more. Bit more grippy than the ho-wood that I got on the SIH.

There was already a bit of a patina forming before last night, but it was interesting to see how the patina changed with all those acidic items. lots of blue daubs and streaks below the stainless cladding. The contrast between the patina and the cladding is genius. Good job on that Jon!

Scratch that...good job on everything with this knife!

Now, if I can work up the courage to take it to the stones in a few weeks when it starts to lose a bit of performance. I think I found both the edge bevel and the bevel behind the edge today...first time I felt like I was able to do that with a knife.

Zwiefel
09-11-2012, 11:24 AM
The more I use this knife, the more I like it. This size/shape is incredibly useful, big enough to do most jobs (some more easily than others for sure), small enough to not be unwieldy or constantly in the way on a small board.

Put a new edge on it last weekend, and was actually able to improve the performance vs OOTB, a little bit anyway :)

This has me thinking about a suji now...seems like the suji is kind of a longer version of the petty (oversimplicfication, the profile has some differences)?

wenus2
09-11-2012, 02:51 PM
That was a good little review last month, I had missed it somehow.
Glad you are enjoying the new knife. It sounds like its performs as well for you as the hype would have one believe.
That is a very handy size knife IMO.

Zwiefel
09-11-2012, 03:03 PM
That was a good little review last month, I had missed it somehow.
Glad you are enjoying the new knife. It sounds like its performs as well for you as the hype would have one believe.
That is a very handy size knife IMO.

Thanks! I don't have the experience you lot do at using these knives much less reviewing them in a way that others will find informative...so I opted for a little humor :)

Also, forgot to mention it, but I have been particularly pleased with how it cuts cooked proteins. I have long liked serving grilled steaks "Tuscan Style," but most of my other knives didn't have the toothiness to grab + cut the crust reliably so I ended up with the bread knife going at it, which is tiresome. This little guy let me make nice thin, bias slices quite easily. this should help with portion control around here :)