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View Full Version : Takeda VS Kochi, etc



mml
07-22-2012, 08:21 PM
Hello,

Wondering if anyone could help explain the practical and functional differences between Takeda and Kochi gyutos around the 240 size. Looking for a new all-around line knife. If anyone has any other suggestions for a great all-round prep-and-service knife then please let me know, but the rugged kurouchi or some other traditional appearance is an absolute must. Thanks a bunch! Perusing these forums are extremely informative.

labor of love
07-22-2012, 08:25 PM
well if you like rustic looking kurouchi maybe consider zakuri as well. you can watch the video jon made of them on youtube to get an in depth understanding of Zakuri knives. oh btw, welcome to the forum!

heirkb
07-22-2012, 08:55 PM
I don't know what you mean by traditional appearance, but the Gengetsu semi-stainless may also fit your needs and is well-liked around here. You might want to add that one to your list as well.

EdipisReks
07-22-2012, 09:35 PM
i have two Takedas and a Kochi. i love all three. the Kochis undoubtedly have better QC, however, so i'd probably suggest a Kochi over a Takeda, unless you are willing to risk having to do quite a bit of work to the knife.

Cutty Sharp
07-22-2012, 09:48 PM
A Zakuri has a bit more heft to it, I believe, and so might stand a bit more abuse on the line. Kochis and Takeda are very thin.

chinacats
07-22-2012, 10:34 PM
Just picked up a Kochi (V2), and while it is thin behind the edge, it is nonetheless quite substantial overall. When I first got the knife, initial impression was how much there was to it...once I started using it, I felt like I was driving a high-end sports car. Seems very finely balanced and quite natural in hand, couldn't be happier so far.

labor of love
07-22-2012, 11:04 PM
A Zakuri has a bit more heft to it, I believe, and so might stand a bit more abuse on the line. Kochis and Takeda are very thin.

240mm zakuri gyutos and 240mm kochi gyutos are both listed at 216 grams

Eamon Burke
07-22-2012, 11:44 PM
240mm zakuri gyutos and 240mm kochi gyutos are both listed at 216 grams

But the zakuri is way thicker behind the edge.

labor of love
07-23-2012, 12:11 AM
But the zakuri is way thicker behind the edge.

yes they are. i have no actual experience with kochi knives. i would probably purchase a kochi or a zakuri over a takeda just because they have a better blade profile. or atleast a consistent profile. comparing the prices of a zakuri AS steel to a takeda AS steel i really dont understand why takedas cost soo much more.

Eamon Burke
07-23-2012, 12:32 AM
The Takedas cut like CRAZY. They are a "buy one and you'll get it" kind of knife. But I've not had extensive experience using a Zakuri, I'm sharpening one tomorrow, so I'm excited to see what it's like. Some knives, like the Gengetsu, are just made really well and still cut very good for being somewhat stout--I'm hoping the Zakuri is too!

El Pescador
07-23-2012, 01:49 AM
But the zakuri is way thicker behind the edge.

I don't know if this is always the case. There was one at WCG2012-Gardena that was impressive to say the least.

Pensacola Tiger
07-23-2012, 08:20 AM
The Takedas cut like CRAZY. They are a "buy one and you'll get it" kind of knife. But I've not had extensive experience using a Zakuri, I'm sharpening one tomorrow, so I'm excited to see what it's like. Some knives, like the Gengetsu, are just made really well and still cut very good for being somewhat stout--I'm hoping the Zakuri is too!

Eamon, I agree that Takedas cut like crazy, but having owned both a Takeda and a Zakuri and having used a Kochi borrowed from EdipisReks, I'd choose the Kochi every time. It's like The Three Bears: The Zakuri felt too big, the Takeda felt too thin, but the Kochi was "just right".

Rick

mml
07-23-2012, 09:03 AM
I've heard that the steel in the Kochi is supposed to be very similar to white steel. Can anyone tell me a little bit about how it handles in comparison? White steel is supposed to be so simple and pure but according to this comparison chart, the V2 is pretty different with lots of other composition elements.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=V2%2CShiro-Ko%202&ni=,&hrn=1

How does that translate to sharpening, edge retention, and usage? Thanks again for all the info guys, its been very helpful.

Also, hows the stickage?

obtuse
07-23-2012, 09:20 AM
I doubt there would be a noticeable difference between Takefu V2 and Hitachi Shirogami no.2 in use. The major differences will be felt in how the knife was ground. I can't comment on food release having not used the Kochi. Since Jon is selling it and it is so highly regarded, I doubt it has issues in this area. I don't think you can go wrong with any of Jon's knives.

Eamon Burke
07-23-2012, 11:09 AM
The Kochis are nice, no doubt about it. Jon doesn't sell bad stuff.

Oh, and I'm sure there are Zakuris that are different, but I was referring to the KU series.

EdipisReks
07-23-2012, 11:29 AM
food release is pretty good on the Kochi. V2 holds an edge for me better than White 2.

bkdc
07-23-2012, 12:04 PM
I don't own a kochi, but the geometry on a Takeda gyuto is very unusual. It's thin behind the edge, and the spine has a nice distal taper. However, the blade itself is FLAT -- it's almost like a Chinese cleaver with the width of the blade feeling flat and thin all the way down the length except for a thickening when you move up the spine. It's allows a cutting performance like a Chinese cleaver, and it rarely ever wedges. Even at the heel, the blade is super-thin.

I own a lot of gyutos, and the Takeda is my favorite. I own both the 210 and 240. I don't think I can think of another 3-layered blade with such a thin blade geometry toward the heel. I don't know why people would think it's too thin. It is a tough knife. I have no problems putting it through the ringer.


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/jpl73/knives.jpg

From left to right:
Takeda 240 gyuto
Yoshikane 240 gyuto
Carbonext Gyuto
Asai 240 SG-2 suminagashi gyuto
Asai SG-2 suminagashi nakiri