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chinacats
07-25-2012, 01:15 AM
So figured I'd try to give a review of my newest edition. First review, so I apologize if not very thorough...feel free to ask any questions.

I have been searching for a new gyuto and initially was leaning toward one of the lasers. After briefly owning a Suisin Inox Honyaki, I realized that I really wasn't after a laser afterall and really was just looking for something to compliment my current go to chef knife (10" nogent Sab). I finally narrowed the choice to the Kochi V2 and a Masamoto KS (240mm) and figured I would be happy with either one I decided to get. While these knives may not appear that similar, they both seemed to have a profile that I could adapt to fairly easily.

I wound up ordering the Kochi from Jon @JKI. As usual, the package arrived in short order, impeccably wrapped and included a hand written note. First impression was holy crap--this thing is a monster! The handle is burnt chestnut and fairly large which I like. Initially the knife seemed to be larger and heavier than expected. The spine is about the same thickness of my Sab. The spine and choil appear to have been eased and feel very comfortable in hand. The balance point on mine is about 43mm from heel and say 51 to end of handle, which winds up being slightly more blade heavy than I am used to but really where I wanted to go with this knife. Heel height on mine is 51mm and blade length is 245 heel to tip. Weight is 219g.

The edge was plenty sharp to start with (though I realize my standards are not up to others here), so figured I'd give it a go on an onion--cut brunoise and it slid through as effortlessly as my Carter nakiri which until now had been my standard of cutting ease. No immediate patina, so stropped it on a 5k GG stone to remove whatever may have been coating the blade for protection...knife is not what I would call super reactve, but fairly quickly forms a very colorful patina...including the shinogi (hope my terms are correct) which is much different than my Zakuri (not a gyuto) by texture and look. The kurouchi finish above is also more refined than others that I have experienced.

So far I have cut onions, potatoes (yukon and russet), garlic, mangoes, supremes of citrus--yeah, I know better, but part of my dinner. I was also able to peel an apple without breaking the peel on my second attempt...something that I've never really been able to do with the Sab as it wedges horribly...which may prove nothing but makes me real happy! Cut some carrots as well and it was able to glide through with no resistance and without snapping the carrot. Push cuts, pull cuts, chopping are all very comfortable and maybe you can see in the pics (if they work) why...the profile is to me almost identical to the Sab, the geometry is insanely better, in fact I can't begin to tell how much better, but this knife not only cuts extremely well, but has a great feel in hand. Again, this knife felt larger in hand than many others I have used, but as soon as I begin to cut it feels almost nimble which I have to attribute mostly to the balance point, profile and geometry.

Should mention that the grind seems very even and overall fit and finish was very good. So far I am loving it!


http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P7240413.jpg

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P7240448.jpg

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P7240469.jpg

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P7240463.jpg

Oh yeah, I own this knife with both hands...took a nice chunk out of my middle finger of my left hand while chopping potatoes and nicked myself on the other while it was sitting on the board...gotta love getting used to a new blade. :knife:

labor of love
07-25-2012, 01:47 AM
awesome review. I cant wait until i get one of these!

obtuse
07-25-2012, 02:53 AM
I'm glad you went with the kochi! I think you made the right choice :)

Johnny.B.Good
07-25-2012, 03:22 AM
Thanks for the review.

Congrats on what sounds like a great knife.

Cutty Sharp
07-25-2012, 05:33 AM
Temptation!

DwarvenChef
07-25-2012, 06:21 PM
I am extreamly happy with both my Kochi's The 210 gyuto and 270 yanagi. Reminds me I need to get some more fish or a eye of round I have the feeling for slicing :p

EdipisReks
07-25-2012, 06:50 PM
i really like my Kochi.

Pensacola Tiger
07-25-2012, 07:37 PM
i really like my Kochi.

I really like your Kochi, too. It was a pleasure to use. Thanks again for the loan.

Rick

EdipisReks
07-25-2012, 08:01 PM
I really like your Kochi, too. It was a pleasure to use. Thanks again for the loan.

Rick


hey, you're welcome. right back atcha, for the DT ITK. i just thinned the Kochi significantly (boy does my hand hurt, but the "project on hold" itch is gone, so it's a good tradeoff), and i feel like i should send it back to you for another round.

JanusInTheGarden
07-25-2012, 08:21 PM
OMG I've been drooling over the Kochi ever since I called Jon and determined that it is exactly what I'm trying to get. I can't wait to get one but I'm in the middle of moving and therefore between jobs. I need financial security so I can buy one...and eat, I guess...thats supposed to be important too...

chinacats
07-25-2012, 10:09 PM
hey, you're welcome. right back atcha, for the DT ITK. i just thinned the Kochi significantly (boy does my hand hurt, but the "project on hold" itch is gone, so it's a good tradeoff), and i feel like i should send it back to you for another round.

Wow, mine seems pretty thin other than near the spine...did you thin the whole blade or even more behind the edge?

EdipisReks
07-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Wow, mine seems pretty thin other than near the spine...did you thin the whole blade or even more behind the edge?

mine had chipped at the heel fairly significantly, and i hadn't thinned it as much as i could have when i originally repaired it (i'm not as timid was i was a year ago). my thinning was just fixing that, and i just thinned up to the cladding.

JanusInTheGarden
07-26-2012, 02:12 PM
Just real fast, how do you pronounce "Kochi"? After speaking with a few knife fanatics I've learned that my japanese phonetics could use some polishing. Is it "Ko-chee" or "ko-Kee," etc?

chinacats
07-26-2012, 02:25 PM
I could be corrected here, but I believe Jon said Ko-chee...Ko-kee is the man with Japanese Chef's Knife--oh yeah, my pronunciations leave something to be desired as well. Good luck in school, sounds like you have the right attitude going in, keep it up when the going gets tough!
Cheers

Cutty Sharp
07-27-2012, 10:18 PM
Just real fast, how do you pronounce "Kochi"? After speaking with a few knife fanatics I've learned that my japanese phonetics could use some polishing. Is it "Ko-chee" or "ko-Kee," etc?

Kochi is 'koh-chee' or こち

JohnyChai
08-02-2012, 01:57 AM
Anyone want to chime in on the sticktion of this blade? Remember Jon saying it's a 50/50 grind which was a surprise but that's probably what he asked for...

chinacats
08-02-2012, 02:22 AM
So far I have had no issues with potatoes...and I have been cutting everything I can bring home from the farmer's market. I think the kurouchi finish helps, but more than that I think is because of the geometry of the blade. Grind may be 50/50, but it gets extremely thin, so hard for me to see. Not sure if these pics will help, but tried to get a decent shot of the choil.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P8020494.jpg
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P8020491.jpg
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P8020488.jpg
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/P8020487.jpg

DwarvenChef
08-02-2012, 04:16 AM
Mine does not have sticking issues at all. Another reason I love this king of KU finish :)

NO ChoP!
08-02-2012, 12:04 PM
I've always read about Kochi geometry; which is enticing in itself. This talk of having a profile comparable to the Sab or Masamoto is very intriguing... although, in the pics it looks taller and more blunt at the tip end.

EdipisReks
08-02-2012, 03:02 PM
I've always read about Kochi geometry; which is enticing in itself. This talk of having a profile comparable to the Sab or Masamoto is very intriguing... although, in the pics it looks taller and more blunt at the tip end.

it's both of those things. great knife, though.

chinacats
08-02-2012, 03:15 PM
it's both of those things. great knife, though.

+1

labor of love
08-02-2012, 08:51 PM
what is the edge retention like?

EdipisReks
08-02-2012, 09:05 PM
what is the edge retention like?

quite good.

JanusInTheGarden
08-02-2012, 09:14 PM
quite good.

What steels would you consider it most comparable to?

labor of love
08-02-2012, 09:35 PM
i read that the kochi v2 steel was comparable to white 2 but with a little better retention. tougher than AS steel and less prone to chipping. when i think of white 2 but better retention i think of HD steel. am i close at all?

obtuse
08-02-2012, 10:09 PM
In my experience HD steel holds an edge much longer than white no.2. Days/ week for white vs months for HD in home use.

labor of love
08-02-2012, 10:15 PM
so how would you compare the v2 to something like HD steel if you dont mind me asking?

EdipisReks
08-02-2012, 10:34 PM
What steels would you consider it most comparable to?

Blue 2, in my opinion. both V2 knives i've owned have felt more like Blue 2 on the stones than White 2, as well.

obtuse
08-02-2012, 11:22 PM
V2 is very similar to 1095 and white no.2 in composition. Just a simple high carbon steel.

Cutty Sharp
08-02-2012, 11:35 PM
Blue 2, in my opinion. both V2 knives i've owned have felt more like Blue 2 on the stones than White 2, as well.

Out of interest, how would you define the feel of Blue #2 compared to white #2 on the stones?

EdipisReks
08-02-2012, 11:40 PM
V2 is very similar to 1095 and white no.2 in composition. Just a simple high carbon steel.

they are somewhat different (http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=V2%2CShiro-Ko%202&ni=,&hrn=1).

EdipisReks
08-02-2012, 11:42 PM
Out of interest, how would you define the feel of Blue #2 compared to white #2 on the stones?

hard to describe. all the White 2 knives i've owned and used, and it's been quite a few, have typically felt kinda grabby on most stones, where blue 2 has always felt like it glides more.

obtuse
08-03-2012, 12:15 AM
I doubt in a blind test with V2 and White no.2 hardened and tempered the same anyone could tell the difference. Variations on heat treatment and glade geometry would be the major differences knife to knife. V2 compared to HD steel in edge holding is easy, HD wins. HD wins because it is so much more corrosion resistant and has much greater chromium carbide volume. Now I'm no steel expert, but the addition of Chromium .30-.50% in V2 is mainly to ensure deeper hardening.

labor of love
08-03-2012, 12:20 AM
well kochi also makes gyutos in blue 2. which i know ill like alot. so theres something for everybody.

obtuse
08-03-2012, 01:54 AM
I didn't mean to come off argumentative. I think they are all good steels. I'd be happy with a Kochi made from any flavour of steel.

EdipisReks
08-03-2012, 11:09 AM
I doubt in a blind test with V2 and White no.2 hardened and tempered the same anyone could tell the difference. Variations on heat treatment and glade geometry would be the major differences knife to knife. V2 compared to HD steel in edge holding is easy, HD wins. HD wins because it is so much more corrosion resistant and has much greater chromium carbide volume. Now I'm no steel expert, but the addition of Chromium .30-.50% in V2 is mainly to ensure deeper hardening.

i imagine you'd notice rather quickly on a tomato cutting test, blinded, as the white steel knives i own definitely feel the affects of acidic food quicker than the V2 knives i've used.

obtuse
08-03-2012, 11:37 AM
At .30-.50% the corrosion resistance between the two steels would be pretty much identical because there wouldn't be enough free chromium in the V2 steel to provide any corrosion resistance

Where are the steel experts?
I'm done hijacking this thread.

EdipisReks
08-03-2012, 11:54 AM
At .30-.50% the corrosion resistance between the two steels would be pretty much identical because there wouldn't be enough free chromium in the V2 steel to provide any corrosion resistance

Where are the steel experts?
I'm done hijacking this thread.

there are many small composition issues in the two steels, beyond the small chromium difference. i'm just going by experience with knives of the two steels, here. it's somewhat subjective, obviously, but a knife either keeps cutting or it doesn't. when cutting a lot of tomatoes, something i do fairly regularly, my white steel knives start struggling on tough skins before my V2 knives do. it's part of why i don't have white 2 gyutos, anymore. i don't have the issue with Blue 2 and Blue AS knives, either.

Cutty Sharp
08-03-2012, 12:52 PM
hard to describe. all the White 2 knives i've owned and used, and it's been quite a few, have typically felt kinda grabby on most stones, where blue 2 has always felt like it glides more.

Thanks - yes, it's how I imagine. I've got 2 white #2 and will soon be able to compare with a blue #2 on the way.

bieniek
08-03-2012, 02:48 PM
I really like the V2 used in Yoshikane.
But I basically like every carbon.

Thanks chinacats, nice read. Could use more photos though :)