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View Full Version : Noob with a Retention question....



Zwiefel
07-29-2012, 08:00 PM
I have a Masamoto VG10 Gyuto 210mm and a suisin inox honyaki 240mm gyuto.

It seems like the VG10 held its edge for at least a year of active home cooking....and the suisin seems to need some stone work after only 2-3 months.

Does that make sense with the steels involved?

TIA!
Z

tk59
07-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Edge retention is dependent on the steel but also on the sharpening job, the kind of usage and your definition of edge retention. How were they sharpened?

JBroida
07-29-2012, 08:15 PM
nope... not for steel, but for geometry. The masamoto is thicker (much) behind the edge than the suisin. The suisin is a bit more delicate and if abused can lose its edge more quickly. If those two knives had the same geometry, the inox honyaki would have the better edge retention (i say this based on using thinned down masamoto's, which may or may not be vg10).

Zwiefel
07-29-2012, 08:23 PM
Edge retention is dependent on the steel but also on the sharpening job, the kind of usage and your definition of edge retention. How were they sharpened?

In both cases OOTB :)

JBroida
07-29-2012, 08:23 PM
oh man... ootb edges are never a way to judge these knives :(

Zwiefel
07-29-2012, 08:24 PM
nope... not for steel, but for geometry. The masamoto is thicker (much) behind the edge than the suisin. The suisin is a bit more delicate and if abused can lose its edge more quickly. If those two knives had the same geometry, the inox honyaki would have the better edge retention (i say this based on using thinned down masamoto's, which may or may not be vg10).

Intuitively, that makes a lot of sense....but given how asymmetrical the Masamoto is compared to the Inox, it seems surprising that the Suisin would be that much thinner behind the edge. (I am probably confused.)

JBroida
07-29-2012, 08:32 PM
look at the two knives side by side (at the choil) and then it will make sense

Zwiefel
07-29-2012, 08:36 PM
oh man... ootb edges are never a way to judge these knives :(

Yeah....bit embarassed about that...but not enough to keep me from being honest. To be fair, I'm a lefty so I paid extra to have the edge redone lefty-style on both knives....so HOPEfully not as poor as typical OOTB knives.

I'm kinda surprised that I'm at the point of having to sharpen my suisin already. I did sharpen a cleaver last week and feel like that was an "ah-ha" experience WRT understanding how to build/eliminate a burr to create a proper edge...so maybe I shouldn't be as worried as I am. LOVE my SIH though :D

tk59
07-29-2012, 08:41 PM
You should have someone who knows how to get the most out of these knives sharpen them so you can have a better idea, head to head. Most folks here don't judge a knife at all until after they've installed their "standard" edge on it. As for steel, Jon is referring to the fact that Masamoto sells a "VG" line that is known not to be VG10. IIRC, it is VG1. I wouldn't necessarily expect a resharpened blade to have a great edge either. It really depends on who is doing it and if they care at all. A number of forum members here have had extra sharpening services applied to their new knives and been disappointed.

Zwiefel
07-29-2012, 08:44 PM
look at the two knives side by side (at the choil) and then it will make sense

Ok...just did that....wow. man that SIH is thin! :idea2: even with my poor sight and...uh....minor intoxication....the difference was pretty big...like 50% or so in reflected light (having a rounded choil is probably a factor in that).

Zwiefel
07-29-2012, 08:45 PM
You should have someone who knows how to get the most out of these knives sharpen them so you can have a better idea, head to head. Most folks here don't judge a knife at all until after they've installed their "standard" edge on it. As for steel, Jon is referring to the fact that Masamoto sells a "VG" line that is known not to be VG10. IIRC, it is VG1. I wouldn't necessarily expect a resharpened blade to have a great edge either. It really depends on who is doing it and if they care at all. A number of forum members here have had extra sharpening services applied to their new knives and been disappointed.

I don't recall the details, but I know Masamoto had to issue a "re-statement" or "apology" for this line of knives RE actual ingredients.

tk59
07-29-2012, 08:47 PM
Ok...just did that....wow. man that SIH is thin! :idea2: even with my poor sight and...uh....minor intoxication....the difference was pretty big...like 50% or so in reflected light (having a rounded choil is probably a factor in that).That's why they are often referred to as "lasers." :)

Zwiefel
07-30-2012, 07:52 PM
That's why they are often referred to as "lasers." :)

I know :O

I haven't done that particular side-by-side before and had very little experience/knowledge of comparing thickness at the choil when I acquired the SIH...since then I've been doing a lot of digging on this forum, JKI, etc. looking for a petty and have developed a little knowledge about what I'm looking at/for when looking at the choil. Was a lightbulb moment in more than one way--I love those moments when I realize I know something I didn't know I know, you know? :scratchhead: