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View Full Version : Ive finally understood!



bieniek
08-09-2012, 12:13 AM
So I was talking with my chef lately, about what makes cooking a joy, and what gives best result. of course best means different things for different folks, but after we both agreed, that the best way to cook piece of fish is to pan-fry it, he said, that maybe its best, but there are people who just dont know how to do it correctly. Thats how simple it is. You can go wrong pretty easily, it takes care and skill, but nothing combines crunch and mild flesh as good as frying pan.
I think it applies to basically everything else in cooking. How do you obtain dry meat? Why is risotto bland?
So for me its lack of understanding which causes cornercutting. Inventing new techniques which might not be better, but its easier to execute for someone who doesnt wish to master it, just does it.
huh

Andrew H
08-09-2012, 12:17 AM
I think that you should be very careful saying that one way is 'better' than another. My favorite way to eat great fish is with some acidity, raw.

Zwiefel
08-09-2012, 12:24 AM
as a bondafide southerner, I am constitutionally prohibited from speaking against fried food...even pan-fried food...but my favorite fish preparation is grilled, hot-smoked, and served with a good chimichurri.

Now you've got me wondering if I could create some kind of breading/batter for grilled fish....

Crothcipt
08-09-2012, 02:22 AM
Bieniek,

I have always been pissed off with a cook trying to cut corners. they are looking for a quick way to get the food out of the kitchen, and not thinking of how it will taste. I think that cutting corners is the biggest problem with most cooks. weather its in the oven or grilled.

I myself love pan fried, grilled fish. Either way if done right will set my socks on fire.:drool:

The Edge
08-09-2012, 03:45 AM
I think "best" really comes down to what you want your end product to end up like. Cutting corners, shows a lack of understanding of what you want your end product to end up like. I am drunk off my a$$ right now, so I forgot the deep and profound thought I had, but if you have the knowledge, and take the time, you can create whatever you have pictured in your mind, good or bad, despite cooking technique.

Crothcipt
08-09-2012, 03:48 AM
lol maybe it will hit you later, or even tomorrow.:shots:

The Edge
08-09-2012, 03:50 AM
lol maybe it will hit you later, or even tomorrow.:shots:

I'm pretty sure it's lost forever. Well maybe until I forget what it was meant for. :beatinghead:

maxim
08-09-2012, 04:15 AM
:plus1: raw for me too :D


I think that you should be very careful saying that one way is 'better' than another. My favorite way to eat great fish is with some acidity, raw.

Justin0505
08-09-2012, 07:51 AM
"Best period" is very different than "best for an application."

People that think that they have found THE answer usually just haven't askes enough questions.

However, I agree that the simple techniques are often the trickest to fully understand and master.

Mucho Bocho
08-09-2012, 10:29 AM
I like simple if I'm cooking for a crowd on the beach or out of my element. lately i've been messing with my PS Sous Vide rig.

Two treatments of fish:
1.) Cod with garden snap peas over butternut squash. Simple ingredient list. Sousvide for 15 min in butter, cured lemon, confit garlic and touch of turmeric. Maldon Salt

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/cod-1.jpg


2.) Organic farm raised salmon steak, sous vide in beurre blanc, finished pan seared bathed in Ghee and a little coconut oil on mushroom Risotto with carrots and celery.

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/Salmon.jpg

El Pescador
08-09-2012, 12:19 PM
I like simple if I'm cooking for a crowd on the beach or out of my element. lately i've been messing with my PS Sous Vide rig.

Two treatments of fish:
1.) Cod with garden snap peas over butternut squash. Simple ingredient list. Sousvide for 15 min in butter, cured lemon, confit garlic and touch of turmeric. Maldon Salt

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/cod-1.jpg


2.) Organic farm raised salmon steak, sous vide in beurre blanc, finished pan seared bathed in Ghee and a little coconut oil on mushroom Risotto with carrots and celery.

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/Salmon.jpg

That Salmon looks awesome!

bieniek
08-09-2012, 01:09 PM
However, I agree that the simple techniques are often the trickest to fully understand and master.

+1
Plus I guess its easier + faster + more cost effective if you say to someone with low rate: vacuum this meat and cook it low, margin is big.
For sure easier than giving him a piece of steak, explain about the pan temperature, searing sense, seasoning, cooking, checking, glazing, resting, herbs, testing, reheating and blah blah


Fortunately, some flavours, like for example roasting/grilling flavour cannot be faked.

Lucretia
08-09-2012, 01:14 PM
It's not just corner-cutting, IMO. It's the premise that a more complicated dish is the best dish, rather than an attempt to balance the prepartion with the characteristics of the ingredients. Cover a perfectly fresh, mild white fish with heavily seasoned sauce and you've lost the wonderful subtleties of the fish. Properly fry it and the fish is still the star of the show. It's kind of like what they say about artists--the trick is to know when to stop painting.

And I admit I do cut corners on occasion. With only so many hours in a day for my army of one, it happens. But it is possible to use some judgement and choose shortcuts that will lessen the impact on your dish--if you're aware you're cutting a corner and have an understanding of how it will affect your results.

bieniek
08-09-2012, 01:20 PM
You mean, like LAMB 86? :)

:justkidding:

Eamon Burke
08-09-2012, 01:24 PM
I think the best treatment of a fillet of fish is what Dave Pasternack does. Wondra on the skin side, medium heat in a cast iron pan with olive oil, S&P it in the pan. Bump it down to the broiler, still in the pan, to finish. It's simple, versatile, and always delicious. Really lets the freshness of the fish shine.

Mucho Bocho
08-09-2012, 01:28 PM
I think American's over complicate Italian food. talk about the ingredients being the star of the show. i remember watching a show a few years ago where jamie Oliver had to cook for a bunch of Italian grandmothers (living in Italy). he cooked some good thing but they beat him up because it had too many ingredients.

I like to cook both ways but agreed that your truly can't explore a more modern way of cooking without understanding how the classics are prepared.

Mucho Bocho
08-09-2012, 01:30 PM
Good one Eamon. I'll have to give that wondra a try

obtuse
08-09-2012, 01:41 PM
It's taken me my entire cooking life, from the tender age of 8 (I think), to properly cook and egg. Achieving perfection in the simplest things is an impossible pursuit, but it makes us better all around.

Mucho Bocho
08-09-2012, 02:24 PM
LOL, 22 years to cook and egg? Obtuse, after the tenth year and 1000 ova later, you might say, hey maybe cooking aint for me.

Only kidding but still funny. I know what you're your coming from.

Lucretia
08-09-2012, 02:30 PM
You mean, like LAMB 86? :)

:justkidding:

Plebian that I am, I'd never heard of this and had to look it up. The interesting thing was all the search results were "Wow! 86 ingredients! On a tray that so complex the sous chefs use a map! That you eat with Lamb!"

Nothing popped up saying "this is the most delicious thing you will ever put in your mouth."


The emperor has no clothes.

Mucho Bocho
08-09-2012, 02:34 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/11/lamb-86-alinea_n_1510351.html

bieniek
08-09-2012, 03:33 PM
Plebian that I am, I'd never heard of this and had to look it up. The interesting thing was all the search results were "Wow! 86 ingredients! On a tray that so complex the sous chefs use a map! That you eat with Lamb!"

Nothing popped up saying "this is the most delicious thing you will ever put in your mouth."


I wish I never heard of it. It makes me guilty somehow. Its like I know they can do it, so I could too, but why? 3-4 simple flavours extracted and emphasized is enough.
I wonder - how do you find time to preare 86 different garnishes to "very good" level? I mean, I know they did it, I can believe it easily, but how many people and how many hours been spent preping that?



The emperor has no clothes.


I can see we play in one team, ma'am.

Zwiefel
08-10-2012, 12:02 AM
I was thinking about this tonight at dinner. I think culture plays a huge role in the assumptions about the responsibilities of the chef and the responsibilities of the food in the final dish. Japan seems to be the epitome of "let the food speak for itself" while India seems to be the epitome of "the food is a tool for the chef to speak." Even with these two extremes, it's still 90/10 vs 10/90...never 100 or 0.

It reminds me of one of the big culture differences between vintners and brewers. The vintner is generally trying to make a wine the best expresses the grapes he/she received...and they use the term "production notes" to indicate flavors introduced/created by the vintner to hide or rectify a problem with the grapes (or in some cases through incompetence)...but it's usually considered a criticism to observe "production notes."

However, brewing is all about production notes....the brewer manipulating the ingredients for his/her own purpose. Vintners go nuts about getting the best grapes...brewers make little fuss (but not none) about the barley they use.

I don't think Beer is better/worse than wine...nor that Indian cuisine is better/worse than Japanese...they each have a very different ethos though.

My $.02 about "letting the flavor of the fish come through" vs "overwhelming it with other flavors."