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wsfarrell
08-15-2012, 03:22 PM
I do a lot of searching for knife/stone related stuff on the web. In the past couple of months I've noticed that google's results have shown a real decline in quality. Apparently around June google made a change in their search algorithm; the result has been termed "domain crowding" by webmasters. What happens is that the same domain will appear multiple times on the first results page. I searched for "king 800 stone" on google. 6 of the top 8 results were youtube (guess who owns youtube?). For the same search in bing, 7 of the top 8 results were different (unique) domains, with only 1 youtube.

In a search for "shigefusa knife" on google, the top 12 results had only 3 domains: zknives, japan-tool and CKXX. The top 12 on a bing search included japan-tool, zknives, epicedge, kitchenknifeforums, aframestokyo, japanwoodworker, ebay, and CKXX.

There are theories that google tweaked the algorithm to maximize ad revenues as opposed to search relevance. We'll never know, but until it changes I'm going with bing.

Crothcipt
08-15-2012, 03:28 PM
I haven't tried bing lately, but when I did I didn't like the results.

Andrew H
08-15-2012, 04:01 PM
I do a lot of searching for knife/stone related stuff on the web. In the past couple of months I've noticed that google's results have shown a real decline in quality. Apparently around June google made a change in their search algorithm; the result has been termed "domain crowding" by webmasters. What happens is that the same domain will appear multiple times on the first results page. I searched for "king 800 stone" on google. 6 of the top 8 results were youtube (guess who owns youtube?). For the same search in bing, 7 of the top 8 results were different (unique) domains, with only 1 youtube.

In a search for "shigefusa knife" on google, the top 12 results had only 3 domains: zknives, japan-tool and CKXX. The top 12 on a bing search included japan-tool, zknives, epicedge, kitchenknifeforums, aframestokyo, japanwoodworker, ebay, and CKXX.

There are theories that google tweaked the algorithm to maximize ad revenues as opposed to search relevance. We'll never know, but until it changes I'm going with bing.

Couldn't it be that you've spent more time on google so they know which sites you usually go to and optimize the results based on your past viewing history?

maxim
08-15-2012, 04:14 PM
Yep i think thats what they do, i notised i get different results on different computers and different places

Dave Martell
08-15-2012, 04:22 PM
Google knows when you go to the bathroom.

tkern
08-15-2012, 04:29 PM
I admit it. I've googled myself in the bathroom before.

Keith Neal
08-15-2012, 04:29 PM
This program does a nice quick job of erasing computer history. I use it every day.

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download

Dave Martell
08-15-2012, 04:34 PM
I admit it. I've googled myself in the bathroom before.


Google Earth :D

Dave Martell
08-15-2012, 04:35 PM
This program does a nice quick job of erasing computer history. I use it every day.

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download


Maybe I'll give that a try...thanks Keith

wsfarrell
08-15-2012, 04:39 PM
I opted out of google tracking 8 months ago, so that's not the issue. Here's a link on how to do it:

http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57368016-285/how-to-prevent-google-from-tracking-you/

Eamon Burke
08-15-2012, 04:41 PM
Yep, just Google trying to be helpful. A regular cleanout of your browser will help.

I don't mind Google tracking me everywhere. I am using their services(mail, maps, browser, imagehosting, search)! It'd be like getting angry because your sushi chef remembers what you like.

JanusInTheGarden
08-15-2012, 07:07 PM
I too stopped using google, now I do it through duckduckgo.com. They also have a variety of adblockers that can be installed on firefox, etc. They can be found at the bottom of this link here: http://donttrack.us/
Ghostery works the best and is the most awesome in general.

Not everyone enjoys using duckduckgo because the format is so different and its very simplified but I trust them as a company. Works for me.

eshua
08-16-2012, 12:53 AM
http://www.awesomedynamic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/no-one-uses-bing.jpg

SameGuy
08-16-2012, 01:03 AM
HAhahahahahaha. :D

eshua
08-16-2012, 01:21 AM
Try it .... not shopped.

SameGuy
08-16-2012, 01:42 AM
I did, didn't work for me. But it's funny just the same.

mr drinky
08-16-2012, 10:15 AM
I would say that 70% of the time now I use google image search when looking for products. You can immediately get a a visual on which product you are looking for without clicking into a dozen sites, and then you can hover over the image to see where the URL goes to sort out the riff-raff. There are too many words, websites, and links these days, so I am going to more visual in my searches. IMO that is one reason why Pinterest is one of the fastest growing social platforms now -- its more visual. And most vendors label their images well so you will get those results but if you search for Shige and then click 'images' you will also get blogs and knife forums on the first page -- something that would never happen with a regular search.

k.

wsfarrell
08-16-2012, 03:43 PM
duckduckgo, pinterest, and google image search are 3 great ideas---thanks!

JanusInTheGarden
08-16-2012, 05:35 PM
Seriously install ghostery. You won't believe how many ad sites are trying to watch you. and you get to BLOCK THEM BEETCHES! There are some sites where I see 14, 16, 18+ ad tracking sites all wondering what I'm up to. And you know what they see? :ninja::ninja::ninja::dance::dance:

SameGuy
08-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Ghostery works well with Fx, but Cr? Not necessary.

JanusInTheGarden
08-16-2012, 08:31 PM
Chrome = Run by Google, tool to accumulate information on your browsing habits/interests. Self-defeating to use google if you're trying to limit google and other companies access to your browsing information. Firefox is much better about privacy in general.

SameGuy
08-16-2012, 08:36 PM
I'm not so paranoid. Oh well. I agree that Firefox -- the concept -- is great. I really got used to it over the years, and had it so well customized. It has taken me a long while to get accustomed to Chrome, but it just... works. Fx has grown so bloated over the years, and they have yet to fix the memory that has plagued it for eons. I mean, seriously, is there a reason Firefox needs to consume 700 Megs of RAM? And Fx is slooowwww. Chrome is a greyhound while Firefox is a pug.

stevenStefano
08-16-2012, 08:49 PM
Yeah I still use Firefox 90% of the time because it has more addons and that sort of thing than Chrome but it does hog a crazy amount of RAM and it has become very bloated and slow. I can run pretty demanding games on my PC and they still use less RAM than Firefox

JanusInTheGarden
08-16-2012, 08:53 PM
I prefer bulldog to pug. :D

maxim
08-17-2012, 12:59 PM
hey :bat:

9176

Eamon Burke
08-17-2012, 01:54 PM
What is wrong with sites watching what you do? Especially browsers tracking where you go?

Who cares? Privacy is what I do on my own property and in my own head, not what I do in the middle of a Starbucks. I cannot figure out what it is people are so freaked out about. OMG THE LIBRARY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I READ. EVERYTHING. THEY USE IT TO ORDER MORE BOOKS I WOULD PROBABLY LIKE, AND MAKE ACCURATE SUGGESTIONS!

What exactly is the hubris behind Google tracking your data? Providing more efficient software? Offering businesses better insight into who their customers are and what they want? Collecting helpful social trend data to understand our society better?

I mean when was the last time someone was blackmailed by Google because Google would tell their boss they were on KKF at work, or email their wife a list of porn sites they frequent? I mean, really?

SameGuy
08-17-2012, 02:43 PM
Exactly.

Eamon Burke
08-17-2012, 02:51 PM
It wasn't entirely a rhetorical question, either. If anyone has a good example of Google hurting people or abusing their power using this data, I'd love to know. I use Google stuff for everything, I've been using them since I switched from Metacrawler in 2000.

JanusInTheGarden
08-17-2012, 04:18 PM
If you are comfortable with being tracked and having detailed information about you being logged in to date collection sites and used as a means of creating revenue (how google makes money) then by all means you have nothing to be concerned about. I personally find it creepy. I'm uncomfortable with the concept of my likes and interests being a commodity. I'm also uncomfortable with it being outside of my control. But really I just find it creepy. Its like the internet equivalent of big brother watching over everything you do and legitimately caring about it.

Moreover its not like the system isn't abused either. The government uses the information collected from google to prosecute. (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/googles_second_transparency_report_us_info_request .php) People have hacked google to collect information that isn't otherwise available for sale from google (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/operation-aurora/). Even google employees get in on the big brother power. (http://gawker.com/5637234/)

These aren't too over-the-top in the heinousness department but it underscores that problems with the system do occur. And they care about everything you do. That bothers me, so I choose not to play into the system. Call it paranoia if you want but it makes me more comfortable.

And Maxim, that dog looks awesome.

SameGuy
08-17-2012, 04:36 PM
But if you have nothing to hide, why try to hide it?

Eamon Burke
08-17-2012, 04:39 PM
It's not that I think you shouldn't be allowed to dislike it. I don't care to judge WHAT others believe, only to analyze HOW they believe it. Carry the same concerns to your life elsewhere. If you will go out of your way to avoid this, does that mean you pay everything in cash, don't have cable TV(or broadcast TV, since the digital switch), avoid stores with security cameras and all toll roads, don't have customer accounts or electronic records anywhere?

Google doesn't tell people "Fred likes Hungarian Salumi and collects tropical fish, and lives in a white house on main street in Fredricksburg, TX. He would do anything to protect his dog, Chuck." It just says that he is one of a bajillion people who have shared interests in Salumi and tropical fish, lives in 78624, and talks alot about the words "Dog" and "Chuck". That kind of data is great for businesses--I've used it, my wife has used it. I if I had to make a living in total ignorance of who my customers are, what they do, what they like, and what they might do in the future, I'd rather be a mountain man. I personally want businesses to know what I want to buy, so they will sell it. Then I can buy it. It's the only voting I actually have a chance to participate in.

It just seems to me that folks expect Google to live up to a standard that does not exist anywhere else. What you do on someone's website isn't private, you are using a computer in someone else's building. They are allowing you to share a real, physical thing they own. You are reading this because many of us paid actual currency to pay for the site to live on a computer in a room somewhere. It has a plug that goes into a wall, it collects dust, it gets hot, it requires maintenance--it is a real thing someone else owns that we are using together. To expect anonymity as a right, or even an option, is hard for me to understand. :scratchhead:

JanusInTheGarden
08-17-2012, 04:39 PM
I also tend to feel that in general, we are becoming more and more public as a society. People are posting their entire lives all over facebook, twitter, etc and its becoming normalized to a ridiculous degree with the youngest of us. I feel that creating a more private web browsing experience is one small measure in which I can take back some privacy in my life. Maybe its just me and I'm off my rocker, who knows.

The "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" approach just doesn't quite work for me. And I feel like you're making some very valid points. Its a comfort thing for me.

Eamon Burke
08-17-2012, 04:49 PM
I feel you on the comfort thing. If you've never spent a night reading about secret government stuff and arcane theories about society until you are scared to look out the window and you feel like the guy in The Raven by Poe...well, you haven't really lived.

I agree that the real problem is that so much stuff is shifting to be done in communal shared environments, that it is probably not good for us. The fact that I never truly have to say goodbye to someone is a strange fact. I mean, I was watching TV the other day and two characters(close friends) were saying goodbye forever, very sad. I was thinking "why don't they just keep up with each other on Facebook or Instagram or something?" That is how Goodbyes go these days--"Well, I guess this is Goodbye. This is hard. Well, we can just call or email anytime. Or video chat. So no big deal. See you around!" I talk regularly with a friend whose whole family lives on mission in Thailand. I know more about her kids than my own Niece.

And my wife and I can just call each other at any point in the day when we are out of the house. She went to D.C. for a weekend, and when she came back, it felt like she just stepped out for errands. That can't be good for people. Because people eventually die, and sometimes you are actually alone, and we can't be totally unprepared to deal with that stuff through the natural baby steps.

So I agree with you, but the answer for me is to go into the woods sometimes and don't bring your phone. Something I almost never get to do anymore.

*edit* Also, on the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear"...I want to say that I don't do anything I am ashamed of, just plenty of things that other people wouldn't understand. I often don't say what I'm thinking, but not because I wish I hadn't thought it, just that it wouldn't play well in the room. But when I get asked, like when Google checks to see what I'm doing...well, they asked for it! Make sense of my browser history, will you? I'll show you a confounding assortment of interests!

SpikeC
08-17-2012, 05:07 PM
When I renewed my business license a few years ago someone decided that I was a pharmacy. Google has my home address and phone number telling people that there is a pharmacy in my nome. I am not comfortable with that, but I am stuck with it.

Eamon Burke
08-17-2012, 05:27 PM
Not an amendment to the conversation, just a link you should use, Spike:
http://support.google.com/maps/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=171429


That'd piss me off too.

SpikeC
08-17-2012, 05:34 PM
Thanks Eamon, I will investigate further!

maxim
08-18-2012, 05:48 AM
hehe what you guys think of this guy ?
I think its quite ironik that he posting all his videos on YouTube and they alow it :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbU2fXzdkuM

Lucretia
08-18-2012, 10:31 AM
I admit it, I'm one of the "paranoid" ones. I don't use my real name on line, I use email aliases, I block cookies and scripts. I lie about my birthdate and pet names. One of the reasons that I do this is I've taken a lot of computer security classes. And one of the common points the computer security instructors make is DON'T put personal information on line. In fact, the practice of using false personal information on line was advocated by more than one instructor. It's not Big Brother I'm worried about---it's ID theft. And if you're dog's name is "Chuck", that's one of the first things someone will try as a password when they try to break into your account.

Johnny.B.Good
08-18-2012, 12:53 PM
hehe what you guys think of this guy ?

I think he belongs in a padded cell (except he probably doesn't believe 95% of what he says).

SpikeC
08-18-2012, 05:40 PM
FINALLY!!!!! the truth is known!

Eamon Burke
08-18-2012, 06:20 PM
hehe what you guys think of this guy ?
I think its quite ironik that he posting all his videos on YouTube and they alow it :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbU2fXzdkuM


I think he's out there. As in talking crazy, all the time.

The only problem with that, is that he's right waaaay too much of the time. Predicting 9/11, wars, drafts, economic collapse, long before they were the miserable reality.

He's not the investigator, he's just a mouthpiece. But he knows some real stuff. My only concern with trusting his information is that he isn't dead yet. People like Bill Cooper, who DO investigate firsthand, often end up on the wrong end of a "police altercation" or a "tragic accident". Due to his continued survival, I am not sure how how to distinguish, in what Alex Jones professes, between what may be truth and what may be state-sponsored counter-intelligence.

dragonlord
08-20-2012, 04:32 AM
As has been mentioned, the problems include ID theft, restriction on the type of information that you are presented with (Google restricts search results based on things that you're most likely to click on), more effective advertising (we don't have unlimited cash), discrimination from insurance companies - who buy your data, and general slow eroding of expectations of privacy.