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Eamon Burke
08-29-2012, 08:29 PM
Is anyone else bothered by this?
My wife is watching Masterchef, and Graham Elliot gives the most useless feedback I've ever heard. His culinary vocabulary is about that of a parrot. "Oh, the cook on this is really good", "it tastes yummy", "its actually very nice".

Yummy?

The Cook?

What next? The cook was nice, and the look was really good, but the eat was not yummy. Me no like.

Reminds me of some coworkers at the sushi bar who used to say "this has no taste". 'This food has no ****ing taste at all', 'They were all "oh it's so goood" and I tried a piece and there was no taste'.

DRIVES ME NUTS. What the eff are you talking about? What is it?



Corollary to this pandemic is using the same word for everything in a kitchen. My last job it was "Grill", the job before that it was "cut".

Instead of "He doesn't know how to break down the whole fish because his knife skills are poor and his knives are dull", they'd end up saying "He can't cut the cut-fish because he can't cut and his knives have no cut".

Instead of "Can you ask the Short-Order Cook to sear some par-cooked chicken breast on the flat-top for me?", they'd say "Hey, tell the grill to grill some grill chicken on the grill".

Words. They mean things.

bikehunter
08-29-2012, 08:35 PM
Heh...what do you expect from a show that is so choreographed and phoney that it's emetic, with three arrogant, know it all pricks in charge? ;-)

Eamon Burke
08-29-2012, 08:36 PM
Being on a scripted show is no excuse! I couldn't talk like that about something unless you kept me awake for 40 hours and beat me up first.

bikehunter
08-29-2012, 08:43 PM
After I sent the last post I got to thinking....it's so scripted that the comments from the chefs should be perfect, not monumentally inane and meaningless as you indicated. shrug

Eamon Burke
08-29-2012, 08:54 PM
Good point. I didn't think of it that way, since I just assume they have to talk down to the audience. It's TV. But really. There has to be a stopping point short of "The steak...the cook was good." If I was told that, I'd be tempted to say "Thanks for nice talk."

Zwiefel
08-29-2012, 08:57 PM
America generally doesn't like complexity....this is just one dimension of that phenomenon. IMNSHO, of course :)

bikehunter
08-29-2012, 09:04 PM
Well, true. Although it's difficult for me to sufficiently express my disdain for the intellectual acuity of the American public, one would think that people who watch this program would be at least slightly interested in food and would expect a bit more than the drivel which Eamon described.

Carl
08-29-2012, 09:06 PM
For what it's worth I enjoyed it. Last nights episode was especially fun. Like me, the contestants are enthusiastic home cooks, not pros, and seeing the 3 old geezers/special guests was a thrill. We've all said stupid sh... stuff.

mhlee
08-29-2012, 09:55 PM
It's not just food tv. I can't comment about the use of English in other English speaking countries, but what you're describing is common in many other industries. In my opinion, it's basically the dumbing down of the English language.

Acronyms are used instead of complete phrases. People spell words incorrectly on a regular basis, write grammatically incorrect sentences, and use incorrect/inappropriate words (e.g. "the cook on this is really good" instead of "this was well cooked"). Look at many major newspapers and you'll see obvious errors (e.g., "your" vs. "you're") that you would generally assume the writer (who should have a good command of the English language) and copy editor (who also should have a good command of the English language) should never write in the first place. Even in my profession (I'm an attorney), I see more and more examples of very poor writing to the point that finding a well written document is now the exception, not the norm. (I use acronyms regularly here so I'm certainly not above some of these trends as well.)

For some people, I do happen to think that these words/phrases are being used because the person thinks he/she knows what he/she is saying and believes that he/she is correct. On the other hand, I think some of these terms/phrases are being used by people trying to be cool and "create" new words/phrases. Nonetheless, it starts a horrible trend. Other people use these words/phrases thinking that they're correct without knowing that these words/phrases are incorrect, and the trend continues unabated. But, the worst thing about this, to me, is the fact that we're moving way from descriptive, vivid, and emotion-inducing writing that can engage and educate a reader.

I would also venture that a lot of it happens to do with time - a lack of time. Good writing takes time. Most people can't be bothered to take an extra ten minutes to write something better. (Again, I'm guilty of this as well.) But sometimes, it's really worth taking that little extra time so that you can really accurately communicate what you want to communicate. Words are important.

JasonD
08-29-2012, 09:57 PM
Just another case of the American mass audience being perceived to glorify ignorance. It's not cool to know a lot about something. I think that's garbage and you don't actually need to talk down to people. Even the ones that don't know exactly what you're saying or may miss a word will get the gist of it and might learn something. *insert rant about terrible corporate media in the USA and Americans hero-worshiping idiots on reality TV*

I feel better now.

tkern
08-29-2012, 10:09 PM
me no understand

bikehunter
08-29-2012, 10:14 PM
[QUOTE=mhlee; In my opinion, it's basically the dumbing down of the English language.

Words are important.[/QUOTE]

Very erudite, Michael, but I'm not gonna attempt to address your points, all of which are true. Just a question. Am I the only one who has observed that the words "effect" and "affect" have virtually disappeared from the language in the media? Many people don't know the difference in usage, and I defy you to find me an article, or newscast, in which both these words have not been replaced with the word...."impact", which they seem to think is a replacement for both words. I'm serious....pay attention next time you watch Newshour (or whatever) or read a newspaper. ;-)

mhlee
08-29-2012, 10:21 PM
Very erudite, Michael, but I'm not gonna attempt to address your points, all of which are true. Just a question. Am I the only one who has observed that the words "effect" and "affect" have virtually disappeared from the language in the media? Many people don't know the difference in usage, and I defy you to find me an article, or newscast, in which both these words have not been replaced with the word...."impact", which they seem to think is a replacement for both words. I'm serious....pay attention next time you watch Newshour (or whatever) or read a newspaper. ;-)

That's a really interesting observation. I will look for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if editors/writers/etc. have been banned from using those words because they are used incorrectly so often.

mhlee
08-29-2012, 10:25 PM
Just another case of the American mass audience being perceived to glorify ignorance. It's not cool to know a lot about something. I think that's garbage and you don't actually need to talk down to people. Even the ones that don't know exactly what you're saying or may miss a word will get the gist of it and might learn something. *insert rant about terrible corporate media in the USA and Americans hero-worshiping idiots on reality TV*

I feel better now.

I don't know if it's 100% perception. How many smart kids are still bulllied because they're smart?

But, I do completely agree that there's no reason to talk down to people. From what I've observed, if you talk to people in an intelligent manner about intelligent things, especially children, they will also speak intelligently.

Zwiefel
08-29-2012, 10:36 PM
Very erudite, Michael, but I'm not gonna attempt to address your points, all of which are true. Just a question. Am I the only one who has observed that the words "effect" and "affect" have virtually disappeared from the language in the media? Many people don't know the difference in usage, and I defy you to find me an article, or newscast, in which both these words have not been replaced with the word...."impact", which they seem to think is a replacement for both words. I'm serious....pay attention next time you watch Newshour (or whatever) or read a newspaper. ;-)

affect/effect
insure/ensure
your/you're

the list is long :)

bikehunter
08-29-2012, 10:45 PM
affect/effect
insure/ensure
your/you're

the list is long :)

Yes it is long, but these words haven't been, that I know of or have noticed, replaced by one catch-all word which replaces both words.

JasonD
08-29-2012, 11:13 PM
I don't know if it's 100% perception. How many smart kids are still bulllied because they're smart?

As far as perception, I don't think it matters whether the perception is true or not since the producers/editors still seem to act as if it is. Look at the trend in programming on the usual "educational" TV channels: History, Discovery, TLC are moving to reality programming and Aliens building pyramids.

I would say that bullying may be a part of the problem. Our kids grow up in a culture where the "nerdy" kids can/ought to be picked on. Those kids then grow up and tell them that maybe that dorky kid needs to "toughen up" instead of complain about being bullied. Maybe things are changing a bit with "nerds" being the new cool thing. And as much I don't like the lensless thick rimmed glasses fad, I'm all for embracing intelligence culturally.

Back on topic. I think they need Jeremy Clarkson to go on that show to describe the food. "This steak is as good as smearing honey into Keira Knightly"

Andrew H
08-29-2012, 11:43 PM
Very erudite, Michael, but I'm not gonna attempt to address your points, all of which are true. Just a question. Am I the only one who has observed that the words "effect" and "affect" have virtually disappeared from the language in the media? Many people don't know the difference in usage, and I defy you to find me an article, or newscast, in which both these words have not been replaced with the word...."impact", which they seem to think is a replacement for both words. I'm serious....pay attention next time you watch Newshour (or whatever) or read a newspaper. ;-)

I don't know if that's true: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/us/politics/jobs-numbers-could-affect-presidential-race.html?pagewanted=all In the article the author uses the both effect and affect while abstaining from using impact. Consider yourself defied! :nunchucks:

bikehunter
08-30-2012, 12:06 AM
Ya' well, I don't recall saying it was impossible, just not likely unless you go looking, when you clearly did. <g. Try 50 more articles and see what happens.

Zwiefel
08-30-2012, 12:13 AM
Yes it is long, but these words haven't been, that I know of or have noticed, replaced by one catch-all word which replaces both words.

Quite.

Andrew H
08-30-2012, 12:14 AM
Ya' well, I don't recall saying it was impossible, just not likely unless you go looking, when you clearly did. <g. Try 50 more articles and see what happens.

Sorry, we must have differing views on what the definition of defy is.

Salty dog
08-30-2012, 12:45 AM
you guys take cooking enertainment too seriously.

Don't you know it's all........Hmmm, what's legal to say? Baloney?

ecchef
08-30-2012, 01:20 AM
I think they need Jeremy Clarkson to go on that show to describe the food. "This steak is as good as smearing honey into Keira Knightly"

Yes. In the King's English as well.

ecchef
08-30-2012, 01:21 AM
Here's one for ya.....count how many times "nuclear" is mis-prounced in the course of a day. You'll be astounded.

tkern
08-30-2012, 01:32 AM
has anyone else said "behind you" at a grocery store and creeped someone else out accidently?

bikehunter
08-30-2012, 01:33 AM
Sorry, we must have differing views on what the definition of defy is.

Clearly I should have used a milder way of expressing it, as you seem to have taken it as a personal challenge. Reminds me of several friends around whom I must be careful what I say in email, as their response will be several links to snopes or urban myths. ;-)

daveb
08-30-2012, 02:12 AM
Paradyme shift. (spelling intentional) Sadly not limited to cooking terms.

Dusty
08-30-2012, 07:04 AM
has anyone else said "behind you" at a grocery store and creeped someone else out accidently?

I say 'behind' out of context all the time. Once, a guy replied 'oui chef!'.

Nice moment.

Twistington
08-30-2012, 07:50 AM
I guess Graham fills the role in this show as the kinda slow, wide/heavy and jolly guy... just sad.

Eamon Burke
08-30-2012, 07:37 PM
has anyone else said "behind you" at a grocery store and creeped someone else out accidently?

All the time. I worked at a crowded line once that made "behind you" a little tiresome. It was like standing with our legs interlaced, this line. So we got used to just bumping each other, just kind of walk up and get in their space and people move to accommodate. I still do it to my wife in the kitchen sometimes, and she doesn't move, it's very confounding to me. I do this to strangers, and it's confounding to them.

Cipcich
08-30-2012, 09:08 PM
Wait 'til you get old.
There are apparently too few Americans with a grasp of the language to fill the jobs available. I'd suggest we have them make machine tools instead of talking or writing, but that won't work either . . .
Vast camps on the other side of the Sierras, where people learn a trade, and to talk like civilized human beings, are perhaps the only answer now. On the other hand, it may be too late for such innovative solutions.
I turned on the television earlier today and saw some of the Republican National Convention, along with the attendant media coverage. When I started having flashbacks of the "Planet of the Apes", I changed the channel to some food TV show and went to sleep.
Now that I've awakened, I see nothing much has changed.

tkern
08-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Wait 'til you get old.
There are apparently too few Americans with a grasp of the language to fill the jobs available. I'd suggest we have them make machine tools instead of talking or writing, but that won't work either . . .
Vast camps on the other side of the Sierras, where people learn a trade, and to talk like civilized human beings, are perhaps the only answer now. On the other hand, it may be too late for such innovative solutions.
I turned on the television earlier today and saw some of the Republican National Convention, along with the attendant media coverage. When I started having flashbacks of the "Planet of the Apes", I changed the channel to some food TV show and went to sleep.
Now that I've awakened, I see nothing much has changed.

sure, i agree... wait what the **** are you talking about?

Namaxy
08-30-2012, 09:42 PM
you guys take cooking enertainment too seriously.

Don't you know it's all........Hmmm, what's legal to say? Baloney?

+1 If I understand correctly, you're posting critique of Food TV? Isn't that the equivalent of a serious music critic commenting on Mariah Carey? It's all fluff and junk, and not worthy of our serious thoughts.

For what it's worth, I hire between 8 and 12 new college students a year. I'm happy to report that trying hard, doing a good job, caring about your career, and making a good impression are all still alive and well. To be honest, the number of kids acting entitled has gone down from 5 years ago...I think a direct reflection of the economy.

College kids graduate without strong writing skills as a rule. It's been that way for 20 years. I've seen no appreciable change in the last few years.

ecchef
08-30-2012, 10:22 PM
All the time. I do this to strangers, and it's confounding to them.

9485

:D

Carl
08-30-2012, 11:35 PM
I say 'behind' out of context all the time. Once, a guy replied 'oui chef!'.

Nice moment.

If there were a "Like" button on the forum I would click it for this post. Not being a restaurant professional I don't get to experience this first hand, but the idea makes me smile.

mr drinky
08-31-2012, 12:55 AM
Well, I must say that I only skimmed a lot of the responses, but here are my 2 cents.

* I don't mind Graham's simple comments that express his like or dislike. I somehow feel he is the most sincere of the three.
* The producers will have edited the show, so the judges may have said other things too. It's all about the audience and what made the final 'cut' in some studio months after it was taped.

With that said, if I hear another TV chef, food personality, regular chef or anyone say: "I want to let the ingredient shine," or "I wanted to respect the ingredients" well, I think I might just **** myself. Shows like Iron Chef and Chopped promote this language and it is largely meaningless. Another one that annoys me is: "I wanted to elevate the dish."

k.

ThEoRy
08-31-2012, 01:14 AM
Colichio loves to say, "it just tastes muddy".


Huh? Why the **** do you know what mud tastes like?

mr drinky
08-31-2012, 01:21 AM
Colichio loves to say, "it just tastes muddy".


Huh? Why the **** do you know what mud tastes like?

That's hilarious. I never thought of that.

But a girl I went to school with told me a story that she was at a family reunion and when she tasted something particularly nasty at a picnic, she said way too loudly in front of elderly relatives..."that tastes like sperm." You can't un-pull that trigger.

k.

mhlee
08-31-2012, 02:20 AM
Colichio loves to say, "it just tastes muddy".


Huh? Why the **** do you know what mud tastes like?

Didn't everyone eat a little mud when they were kids, whether it was from playing sports, going camping, hiking, kicking the crap out of some kid/getting the crap kicked out of you, etc.?

I haven't tasted mud in decades, but I still remember and, more often than not, when I eat farm raised catfish, I recall exactly how mud tastes. :yuck:

Cipcich
08-31-2012, 04:23 AM
sure, i agree... wait what the **** are you talking about?

Let me elucidate, as my comments are often too cryptic, colored as they are by drink. That, however, in no way makes them any less true. Of course, I have long contended that I drive better drunk than most people do sober . . .

1. Having reached the age of 62, and having examined and dismissed the possibility that my conclusions were simply a function of age, I believe Americans as a whole are substantially less literate than they were when I graduated high school. I would also suggest that they are less intelligent, but since the SAT results were fudged some years ago, it's only anecdotal evidence upon which I rely.

2. There is not a whole lot of difference between watching Food TV and watching a political convention on television. If you're doing either for any length of time, you've only helped make the point set out in #1 above.

3.I feel altogether alienated living in the United States in this day and age. As a child, I naively thought things would always get better. Half a century later, I am dismayed to say that this has not been the case. I now feel as if I've parachuted into some bizarre semi-civilization populated by simians (see the movie).

4. I absolutely despise Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. This is not intended as political commentary, just a statement of fact, lest there be any confusion about where I stand.

ecchef
08-31-2012, 06:53 AM
4. I absolutely despise Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. This is not intended as political commentary, just a statement of fact, lest there be any confusion about where I stand.

Whether the intent is there or not, it comes across as such. This is not the place for general political dialogue.

Crothcipt
09-01-2012, 05:06 AM
Eamon I agree with you in so many ways here. When I hear some one say "can you have grill grill this." Its usually a manager that is to preoccupied with what some waitstaff's night before, than to know who is even on the station.

I can't believe some on didn't tell that guy with the "flavor elevator" was way to stupid to be used.

Cipcich
09-01-2012, 05:21 AM
ecchef - please, accept my apology. You're right, my last remark went too far. Sometimes when one is in the middle of an alcohol-induced tirade, it is hard to see the boundaries of what is acceptable behavior. That is, however, no excuse.

Cipcich
09-01-2012, 06:37 AM
There are issues more important than kitchen knives, and, occasionally, a few people who like kitchen knives find an almost irrepressible need to address them, in whatever forum.
I am surprised and disappointed that so few of those people seem to inhabit this forum. Guns, fine (with photos). Slaughtering animals, fine. What's in the country, "too political".
Just saying.