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Zwiefel
09-12-2012, 12:54 AM
Want to ask a very open-ended question. Given the following kit:

8" henckels chef
210mm masamoto VG yo-gyuto
240mm suisin inox wa-gyuto
180mm gengetsu wa-petty
4" henckels parer
1k Mizayuma
3k Mizayuma
8k Kitayama
beginner sharpening skills
500USD

What would you be considering for a next addition?

More looking for a style recomendation (suji/deba/etc.) than material/length/model/vendor...but all of those are welcome, particularly if there is a strong correlation with the style (e.g. SS is less common for single-bevels).

Not exactly in the market...but might be in 3-4 months and want to start thinking about it and/or looking for specific passaround opportunities and/or looking to try things out in shops during my travels.

No specific purpose/gap in mind here. Just looking to expand my knowledge/experience.

The Edge
09-12-2012, 01:11 AM
For me, I'd add a 30-330mm suji to the list, though it all depends if you cook larger pieces of meat much. I do a lot of bbq, so that would hit the spot for me. I wouldn't be too anxious to replace the henckels parer, since I'm sure it does a fine job for now. Just my :2cents:

Pensacola Tiger
09-12-2012, 10:29 AM
You've got the basics covered well, so the next knife style really depends on what foods you prepare. As Taylor said, if you find that you are slicing large pieces of meat, then a longer sujihiki is a good fit. If your slicing needs are modest, a short sujihiki might be better, say 21 to 24 cm. If you are going to start preparing sushi at home, then a yanagiba should be on your short list. If you break down whole fish, a deba is a good knife to consider, otherwise not. Your Gengetsu is perfect for breaking down chicken, but some people prefer a honesuki.

Or perhaps you should approach it from another direction. Is there a task that you do where you find yourself wanting a longer/shorter, thinner/thicker, lighter/heavier knife? If so, then there's the "hole" you should fill.

Rick

stevenStefano
09-12-2012, 12:40 PM
Why not get another gyuto? Can never have too many

Shinob1
09-12-2012, 12:43 PM
Cleaver perhaps? Also what about a strop setup?

pitonboy
09-12-2012, 12:48 PM
If you break down fish, a deba. If you break down chickens/meat, a honesuki. For myself, a honesuki is invaluable

jayhay
09-12-2012, 01:25 PM
What do you prep the most of? Personally, I love my nakiri and it's the knife I reach for most, even in a pro environment. You have a good amount of stainless, so I'd say whatever it is, get a carbon. Blue super is the bees knees imho. Maybe a bread knife would be a nice addition to your lineup as well.

James
09-12-2012, 02:24 PM
Suji or bread knife?

Zwiefel
09-12-2012, 03:24 PM
Cleaver perhaps? Also what about a strop setup?

Oops, I forgot to list my CCK-1303.

NO ChoP!
09-12-2012, 04:34 PM
I say add a course stone and a diamond plate. A suji is a strong consideration as well. 270 will do; 300 will handle anything...

Namaxy
09-12-2012, 08:37 PM
You do need a plate for your stones as No Chop said. Having said that, I've seen how much you love the Gengetsu petty. I'd say go for the 240 or the 270 gyuto...you won't regret it. OR...check out Jon's thread....could be Gengetsu suji coming :D

Zwiefel
09-12-2012, 10:16 PM
You do need a plate for your stones as No Chop said. Having said that, I've seen how much you love the Gengetsu petty. I'd say go for the 240 or the 270 gyuto...you won't regret it. OR...check out Jon's thread....could be Gengetsu suji coming :D

Ooops, another piece of forgotten kit I already have: flattening stone.

A suji was definitely on my mind...very drawn to the idea after the petty...perhaps it's my ignorance, but it seems like a suji is a kind of giant-sized petty? hmmm....a gengetsu super-petty....Any other thoughts on sujis? What is the intended purpose of this blade? someone mentioned meat slicing which I am doing more and more. There is a gengetsu gyuto passaround going on too...

Suggestions so far are: suji, honesuki, deba, yanagi, gyuto, anything carbon esp blue, strop setup, coarse stone, diamond plate.

I'm waiting for the Gesshin 400grit to be back in stock to get a coarse stone, will get a diamond plate at the same time.

For those of you who recommended a strop: I don't quite understand what purpose it serves that I can't accomplish with a waterstone...what am I missing? (this should be understood as a statement of my ignorance.)

I haven't broken down any fish since I was about 12 years old...I might give it a try again someday, but it will just not be a regular activity. So no Deba...at least not for that purpose :)

Honesuki...I don't do much deboning...maybe 3-4 times/year, so this wouldn't get much use. OTOH it would be quite different from anything else I have....

Yanagi...pretty much the same situation as the honesuki. but there is the whole single-bevel coolness going on. (although there are a few single-bevel petty's out there)

Gyuto...since I have a 210 + 240, I'd be looking for a 300...any thoughts about one of these that is a standout in 300?

Someone mentioned carbon...What about PM products?

daveb
09-13-2012, 09:44 AM
I'll second the Nakiri suggestion. Your tag line evokes images of trinity, curries and pilafs. Cutting up a lot of vegs can be done with a gyuto but is just more fun with a nakiri. Light and nimble, its also very different than a cleaver for the task. (I'm working on an efficiency comparison that I expect to take approx 20 yrs to complete)

Carter's web site had a good deal on stainless ones and I just saw one on b/s/t at a very good price. All of the retailers here have Nakiris in various steels and at various price points.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave

Namaxy
09-13-2012, 09:51 AM
A suji is generally dedicated to slicing, so will be long, narrow and thin. It's often, though I wouldn't say always, a softer steel, because it's meant for softer food. Having said that, they are very versatile....much more so than a single bevel...but I wouldn't think of them as a long petty. 270 or 300 is a great length for a suji.


Just my own opinion, but if you have a 210 and 240, and do get another gyuto, I'd go for a 270. I've cut with 300's and they are impressive, but I just don't have the need for that much knife and fast productivity. I think that length is best suited to pros who need to get through a lot of product in a day.

mr drinky
09-13-2012, 10:22 AM
I'd say get the 270-300 gyuto, and if you like your suisin enough, get a new handle for it. That way when you get your new knife, you can send the other one in for rehandling.

k.

Zwiefel
09-13-2012, 10:52 AM
A suji is generally dedicated to slicing, so will be long, narrow and thin. It's often, though I wouldn't say always, a softer steel, because it's meant for softer food. Having said that, they are very versatile....much more so than a single bevel...but I wouldn't think of them as a long petty. 270 or 300 is a great length for a suji.


Just my own opinion, but if you have a 210 and 240, and do get another gyuto, I'd go for a 270. I've cut with 300's and they are impressive, but I just don't have the need for that much knife and fast productivity. I think that length is best suited to pros who need to get through a lot of product in a day.

Thanks for the comments about the Suji...not sure why I said 300 on the gyuto, must have been distracted or thinking about the suji length, meant 270.

Cutty Sharp
09-13-2012, 11:03 AM
Interesting thread - I guess because I'm not in the mood to spend $ on myself, and so it's fun to think vicariously.

So I see things like yanagiba, sujihiki and honesuki are unsuitable and out.

I'd definitely get a diamond plate. I love my Atoma 400, though they're quite expensive in the States. You need something to flatten your stones and you can use it to coarse grind now and then, rather than getting a coarse stone too (though coarse stones aren't all that expensive). For the Atoma, I think if you order from ToolsfromJapan they're the same price as in Japan, which is cheaper, but I don't know about any duties and your shipping costs in the States.

You cook curries all the time, don't you? Nakiri! Vegs, vegs, vegs. It's obvious. Blue #2.

If you are interested in a powdered steel gyuto - said PM (powdered metal?) above - how about the JKI Gesshin Kagero? Sounds good to me. No 270mm listed - special order? - but your current 240 is a wa, so this is Western.

For me, re-handling is usually a waste. (Sorry Drinky) I don't usually like the results; I'm a happy to be a ho-man if that's how they come. Isn't the avg price around $150? More than I think you'd need to pay to get your Atoma plate.

There! Now you're ready!

Zwiefel
09-13-2012, 11:31 AM
Interesting thread - I guess because I'm not in the mood to spend $ on myself, and so it's fun to think vicariously.

So I see things like yanagiba, sujihiki and honesuki are unsuitable and out.

I'd definitely get a diamond plate. I love my Atoma 400, though they're quite expensive in the States. You need something to flatten your stones and you can use it to coarse grind now and then, rather than getting a coarse stone too (though coarse stones aren't all that expensive). For the Atoma, I think if you order from ToolsfromJapan they're the same price as in Japan, which is cheaper, but I don't know about any duties and your shipping costs in the States.

You cook curries all the time, don't you? Nakiri! Vegs, vegs, vegs. It's obvious. Blue #2.

If you are interested in a powdered steel gyuto - said PM (powdered metal?) above - how about the JKI Gesshin Kagero? Sounds good to me. No 270mm listed - special order? - but your current 240 is a wa, so this is Western.

For me, re-handling is usually a waste. (Sorry Drinky) I don't usually like the results; I'm a happy to be a ho-man if that's how they come. Isn't the avg price around $150? More than I think you'd need to pay to get your Atoma plate.

There! Now you're ready!

I wouldn't say Yanagi/Honesuki are out...just that I'm having trouble seeing me get a lot of use out of them...someone might be able to offer a different argument for them though.

Definitely thinking about a suji, that's what was in the back of my head when I started the thread. :)

Nakiri, I've had a dexter cleaver, and now have a CCK-1303...and I guess I understand the difference in profile...but don't have a sense of how they are different in use. I'm interested in them though....

Kagero is probably the only non-custom PM I know of...I do like wa- though.

I was hoping to get folks to do a little vicarious shopping :)
or at least pity a noob!