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Znunez72
09-13-2012, 05:18 PM
So last night I was preparing dinner and came to the realization that my block set of knives is useless. I typically only use the chefs nice and the rest are just collecting dust. I started browsing online to find the correct way to sharpen it and stumbled upon this forum. I realized I'm clueless to all terminology. What hard copy books do you recommend to read for gaining a basic knowledge of higher end knives. And please be kind. Up until last night I thought my calphalon set was top notch!

SpikeC
09-13-2012, 05:38 PM
Welcome to the Knut House! One good source of information is this forum! There is a glossary around here somewhere, if you browse the list of sub-forums you will find all sorts of useful information.
Oh ya, in the main forum, the first sub is "kitchen knife knowledge". Go there!

Namaxy
09-13-2012, 05:39 PM
I know there are some books people here are fond of. However, to be honest, you can learn a ton just by browsing this site. Another site to look at is zknives. Then browse the vendor sites. My favorites include Japanese Chefs Knives, Japanese Knife Imports, Korin trading, A Frames Tokyo, Japanese Natural Stones, Japan Woodworker, Epicurean Edge to name few. They all have some form of introductory remarks about the craft, the knifemakers, styles of knives, the properties of different steels, and the methods of manufacture. If you want hardcopy reading, I think Korin has a pdf of their catalog you could download and print, and the first 10 pages or so give a good overview of these things.

Also...people here are very helpful, and far more expert than I am. I've never seen a question go un-answered. Good luck...I'll warn you that the journey along this learning curve is addictive :D

Znunez72
09-13-2012, 05:47 PM
I have been browsing JCK throughout the day and I must say I'm awestruck. I decided to start reading about the quality of the current set I own and I'm not satisfied with what I have now. I know my techniques and fundamentals of knife care are lacking, but that's why I joined. My work limits my ability to use my phone or a computer throughout the day. That's why I am interested in an actual book to get myself started.

Pensacola Tiger
09-13-2012, 05:53 PM
I have been browsing JCK throughout the day and I must say I'm awestruck. I decided to start reading about the quality of the current set I own and I'm not satisfied with what I have now. I know my techniques and fundamentals of knife care are lacking, but that's why I joined. My work limits my ability to use my phone or a computer throughout the day. That's why I am interested in an actual book to get myself started.

Chad Ward's "An Edge in the Kitchen": http://www.amazon.com/An-Edge-Kitchen-Ultimate-Knives/dp/0061188484/

Everything you are interested in is in this book.

Rick

Lucretia
09-13-2012, 05:55 PM
"An Edge in the Kitchen (http://www.amazon.com/Edge-Kitchen-Ultimate-Guide-Knives/dp/0061188484/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347573103&sr=1-1&keywords=kitchen+knives) by Chad Ward. A lot of the information in this book is available somewhere on line, too, but I don't see the link right off.

Pensacola Tiger
09-13-2012, 05:57 PM
"An Edge in the Kitchen (http://www.amazon.com/Edge-Kitchen-Ultimate-Guide-Knives/dp/0061188484/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347573103&sr=1-1&keywords=kitchen+knives) by Chad Ward. A lot of the information in this book is available somewhere on line, too, but I don't see the link right off.

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

Cutty Sharp
09-13-2012, 06:06 PM
When I joined some helpful fellow posted this link for me, and so here it is for you: a glossary of knife terms http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/2023-Kitchen-Knife-Glossary?highlight=glossary by Eamon Burke

Znunez72
09-13-2012, 06:37 PM
Thank you all!!

sachem allison
09-13-2012, 06:54 PM
welcome!

Dave Martell
09-13-2012, 06:59 PM
Welcome to KKF and good luck with your search for new knives. :)

Johnny.B.Good
09-13-2012, 07:13 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Chefdog
09-13-2012, 08:23 PM
Also check out japaneseknifeimports.com and look for Jon's videos on sharpening. It'll show you a good technique and get started on the right foot.
Have fun!

Zwiefel
09-13-2012, 08:41 PM
Welcome! You'll be hard pressed to find a better resource for anything related to high-performance knives...and everyone is super nice too.

Here are some useful YouTube links with content from folks in the forum:
http://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImports
http://www.youtube.com/user/PCCkitchen
http://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252
http://www.youtube.com/user/burkecutlery

Zwiefel
09-13-2012, 11:10 PM
http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/


"An Edge in the Kitchen (http://www.amazon.com/Edge-Kitchen-Ultimate-Guide-Knives/dp/0061188484/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347573103&sr=1-1&keywords=kitchen+knives) by Chad Ward. A lot of the information in this book is available somewhere on line, too, but I don't see the link right off.


Chad Ward's "An Edge in the Kitchen": http://www.amazon.com/An-Edge-Kitchen-Ultimate-Knives/dp/0061188484/

Everything you are interested in is in this book.

Rick

Bit off topic of this thread but....what do you all think of this quote from the linked article:

"...if you have a new Arkansas stone, a diamond stone or a synthetic stone, go ahead and use it without oil or water. It will work much better."

He did say later on in the article that this does not apply to Japanese Waterstones.

SpikeC
09-13-2012, 11:18 PM
I do believe that is just plain wrong, and will damage the edge.

Pensacola Tiger
09-13-2012, 11:30 PM
Bit off topic of this thread but....what do you all think of this quote from the linked article:

"...if you have a new Arkansas stone, a diamond stone or a synthetic stone, go ahead and use it without oil or water. It will work much better."

You're taking that out of context. The entire passage is:


Oil or Water?

Everyone knows you need to lubricate your sharpening stone with water or oil, right? So the question is which one is better. Neither. The purpose of a sharpening stone is to grind the edge and remove metal. Oil reduces friction and makes the process much slower.

Supposedly oil helps float away metal particles that would otherwise clog the pores of the stone. You can do the same thing by wiping the stone with a damp cloth when you’re done. Steve Bottorff reports that you can clean your Arkansas stones with paint thinner. Synthetic stones clean up with a scouring pad and abrasive cleanser.

According to Joe Talmadge, if you have already used oil on your Arkansas stone, you’ll probably need to keep using oil. But if you have a new Arkansas stone, a diamond stone or a synthetic stone, go ahead and use it without oil or water. It will work much better.

John Juranitch reports that in his company’s work with meat processing plants they discovered that the metal filings suspended in the oil on a stone actually chip and abrade the edge. Although these chips were only visible through a microscope, the meatpackers readily noticed the difference between the knives sharpened on a dry stone and those sharpened on oiled stones.

Waterstones are another matter entirely. Both Japanese and synthetic waterstones require water in order to cut effectively. Japanese waterstones can be damaged if used dry and must be soaked thoroughly before use. Waterstones wear very quickly, revealing new layers of cutting abrasive as the swarf builds up and is washed away. That’s why they are so effective. There is always a new layer of sharp abrasive cutting away at the metal of your edge. By the way, “swarf” is one of those cool terms you get to toss around when you discuss sharpening. Swarf is the slurry of metal filings and stone grit that builds up as you sharpen. Throw that into your next cocktail party conversation and just watch the expressions of awe appear as people realize that you are a sharpening God.

If you doubt it, try it.

Rick

Zwiefel
09-13-2012, 11:44 PM
You're taking that out of context. The entire passage is:
If you doubt it, try it.
Rick

My question was an honest one, I found the suggestion surprising....which usually means one of: "it's BS" or "I'm about to learn something interesting"

I don't understand how I took the quote out of context...it certainly wasn't my intent, was just keeping it succint. I guess it's true that I made it appear that Chad Ward is the source of the quote instead of Joe Talmadge...is that what you mean? I didn't (and don't) care about the attribution, only the content.

Pensacola Tiger
09-13-2012, 11:54 PM
My question was an honest one, I found the suggestion surprising....which usually means one of: "it's BS" or "I'm about to learn something interesting"

I don't understand how I took the quote out of context...it certainly wasn't my intent, was just keeping it succint. I guess it's true that I made it appear that Chad Ward is the source of the quote instead of Joe Talmadge...is that what you mean? I didn't (and don't) care about the attribution, only the content.

The content is correct. An Arkansas stone works better dry, as do DMT or Atoma diamond plates or synthetic stones like India stones. It's easy enough to prove for yourself if you have one of the stones mentioned.

SpikeC
09-14-2012, 02:59 PM
If you use them dry they load up so fast that they won't cut, in my experience. There is also some research that shows that using a diamond plate dry will cause damage to the crystalline structure of the steel, but I would have to dig around some to find it, a guy names Brent Beach has written about it over on the Old Tools list.

Zwiefel
09-14-2012, 03:32 PM
Maybe it's a short-term v long-term thing...? Or depends on how much steel you need to abrade? or what kind of steel?

Anyway, we probably ought to start a new thread to continue this discussion, I've kinda hi-jacked Znunez72's Hello/Help thread.

Shinob1
09-14-2012, 05:03 PM
I think the best bet, (and I did this too), is call Jon and Japanese Knife Imports. He'll spend some time with you over the phone or via E-mail and lead you down the right direction.

Pensacola Tiger
09-14-2012, 05:36 PM
If you use them dry they load up so fast that they won't cut, in my experience. There is also some research that shows that using a diamond plate dry will cause damage to the crystalline structure of the steel, but I would have to dig around some to find it, a guy names Brent Beach has written about it over on the Old Tools list.

Not to belabor this any further, but this is pretty academic since most everyone here uses waterstones, not diamond plates or Arkansas stones to sharpen their knives.

Znunez72
09-15-2012, 12:04 AM
The hijacking doesn't bother me. The discussion caused me to research the topic. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

Pensacola Tiger
09-15-2012, 12:15 AM
The hijacking doesn't bother me. The discussion caused me to research the topic. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

If you are interested in more on Arkansas stones, there is a good article here: http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=21

Rick

Zwiefel
09-15-2012, 12:29 AM
If you are interested in more on Arkansas stones, there is a good article here: http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=21

Rick

Great article Rick, thanks! I'm sure I've seen AR stones throughout my youth, but never used one or talked with anyone about them who truly knew what they were talking about.

bieniek
09-15-2012, 12:42 AM
... works better dry, as do DMT...

say what?

Pensacola Tiger
09-15-2012, 08:13 AM
say what?

"What."

They do. It's a PITA to clean the swarf from the stone, but they cut faster and cleaner when dry. Don't believe me, try it for yourself. I was skeptical until I did.

Chefdog
09-17-2012, 09:00 AM
"What."

They do. It's a PITA to clean the swarf from the stone, but they cut faster and cleaner when dry. Don't believe me, try it for yourself. I was skeptical until I did.

+1
Just a couple weeks ago I was bitching about my DMT-c not cutting, then read the advice here. Saturday I spent an hour or so thinning an old knife with the DMT dry, and voila! the thing did cut much faster. It also required more frequent cleaning, but the increase in speed and effectiveness more than made up for it. I don't care if it wears out faster, because now it actually works!

Sara@JKI
09-17-2012, 05:14 PM
So last night I was preparing dinner and came to the realization that my block set of knives is useless. I typically only use the chefs nice and the rest are just collecting dust. I started browsing online to find the correct way to sharpen it and stumbled upon this forum. I realized I'm clueless to all terminology. What hard copy books do you recommend to read for gaining a basic knowledge of higher end knives. And please be kind. Up until last night I thought my calphalon set was top notch!

... yes, the expectation for "sharpness" changes, usually elevates, in the course of knife nerdiness....