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View Full Version : What stone line up are you using these days?



Dave Martell
03-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Please post what your favorite stones are that you're using today.

mattrud
03-01-2011, 03:06 PM
dmt xxc
dmt xc
beston 500
bester 1200
rika 5k
kitayama
jks 10k
imanishi 10k
felt block
felt pad
textured leather strop loaded with .25 diamond oxide

the order and that i will use will vary depending on knife, task it will be used for, work needed during sharpening.

I rarely use the dmt except for flattening. most knives i take all the way up through the progression, usually starting at either the 1.2k or the rika, I only use one of my 10k stones, most often the JKS stone. finish on strop, and i use the felt between each stone.

obtuse
03-01-2011, 03:10 PM
Right now I'm using a Beston 500, Bester 1k, Naniwa SS 5k, Kitayama 8k, JKS 10k for my double bevel knives. I've been playing with the Naniwa Green Brick 2k and either replacing the Bester 1k and naniwa 5k, or ending on it entirely for a toothsome edge. I always strop with diamond loaded felt and finish with boron carbide loaded balsa. That's my current line up and I've been happy with it. I like the beston and bester because of their hardness and speed. I like the Naniwa 2k because I can go right from the beston 500 to a near mirror polish and it works up a nice mud. The Kitayama is on of the first stones I purchased and I love the way it feels and the hazy finish it leaves. I like the JKS 10k because I feel it's an easy stone to use (not to hard, not too soft) and it leaves a wicked sharp edge when I'm done.

99Limited
03-01-2011, 11:54 PM
I'm using a DMT 8XXC, Beston 500, Bester 1.2k, Naniwa 3k, Arashiyama 6k and Naniwa Snow White 8k. I just got my Snow White today and after running some knives over it, I'm thinking wow what a great polish job. I also strop my knives with 1 micron boron carbide on balsa, .5 micron chromium oxide on leather and a clean leather strop. I also have a few mini diamond sharpeners I use to knock the glaze off some of my stones and help build a slurry.

I was thinking about getting a 10k stone but I'm going to need to solicit some advice first. Having acquired my Snow White I not sure I'd gain anything with a 10k stone.

Jim
03-02-2011, 12:26 AM
Generally I approach my double and single bevels differently. The knives stay sharp so long with quick touch up on the bench strops I may forget!



Here is my bullpen-

DMT XXC
Bestor 500
King 800x
Mizuyama 1000
Synthetic "Blue" Aoto 2000
Suehiro Rika 5000
Kitayama 8000
JKS 10000
Felt and leather bench strops
For double bevel knives I usually start with the 500 to see where I am at with the bevel.

It would go like this -



Bestor 500
Mizuyama 1000
Suehiro Rika 5000
Kitayama 8000
JKS 10000
Felt and leather bench strops
I use a felt block between each stone.
For the Takeda and and sometimes the Hiro I add the Synthetic "Blue" Aoto 2000 to the mix. The Takeda really shine with that stone.

For the Single bevel Knives I have had good luck with this line up-



King 800x
Synthetic "Blue" Aoto 2000
Suehiro Rika 5000
Kitayama 8000
JKS 10000
Back to the Suehiro Rika 5000

Kitayama 8000
JKS 10000
Felt and leather bench strops
(Carefully) cut into the felt block each stone.

While far, far from an expert, I have had some very good luck with this line up.

jaybett
03-02-2011, 12:43 AM
I am the proud owner of the Dave Martell Junior Knife Sharpening kit. It came complete with DMT XXC, Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000, Arashimaya 6000, and a Naniwa SS 10000. Also included in this fabulous package, was a felt block, felt pad, and leather strop, with base. The only thing missing is a shirt telling me, how smart I am!

Even though I'd like to expand my Junior Knife Sharpening kit. I am not sure about the value of picking up a Aoto or Kitayama, since I've yet to venture into single bevel knives. I do need to pick up a nagura for the higher grit stones.

I am curious if the new strops that Dave sales would work on a HA base? I'm also curious about stropping on balsa?

Jay

Jim
03-02-2011, 12:58 AM
Balsa is so cheap it would be silly not to give it a try, hobby shops carry it.

monty
03-02-2011, 12:15 PM
Most of the sharpening I do is on western knives. That's what folks have around here. If the edge is o.k., I start with 1000 Bester then move to a 5000 Suerhiro Rika and finish with a Takenodo 8000x. I use the felt pad between each stone and finish with the leather strop with spray. I use a beston 500 if I need to deal with chips or if there is no discernable edge (amazing how long folks go without getting knives sharpened!!)

On my Japanese knives (only have 2 right now and I'll probably destroy them, I sharpen them so much!!), I use the same progression but my last stone is a Naniwa SS 10,000.

I would like to try something between my 1000 and 5000x. Ideas? I don't feel like I NEED a stone between 1000 and 5000 but I'd love to add another stone for the pure enjoyment of adding a little time to each session. I would also like to try Jon's new 15,0000x stone as well. So many stones, so little scratch!

Crazy Cutter
03-02-2011, 02:05 PM
DMT XXC, Chosera 400, 1000, 3000, 5000.

Boroscilicate and fine ceramic rods for honing inbetween stone sessions.

I've also got a felt block and have just got some amazing results from leather strops I also have.

I would like to get a 10000 stone and go straight from the 5000 to that.

I was going to get a JKS 10000 a while back but sadly Dave stopped selling them before I could get one.....

Jim

shankster
03-02-2011, 04:12 PM
DMT XC
Sugimoto 1000
Arashiyama 6K
Old belt + Veritas stropping compound
Wine bottle cork to de-burr

tk59
03-02-2011, 07:22 PM
I'm always experimenting but at the moment I find I (and my wife) like splash n go stones. I use a 1k SS (soon to be replaced by Gesshin 1k splash n go) followed by Gesshin 5k splash n go (which is awesome but seems a little slow on pm steels), 0.5 Chromium Oxide on flesh-side leather strop and finished on unloaded, smooth bovine. When I want to get fancy, I go to 12k SS, 20k Gesshin (against Jon's recommendation, I might add. he says it's too hard and too fine. whatever. =P) and either 0.25 diamond or 0.125 CBN on Dave's strop and again, finishing on unloaded, smooth bovine.

joec
03-02-2011, 07:39 PM
Shapton glass stones that I have now for 2 years.

unkajonet
03-03-2011, 01:08 AM
It varies. Sometimes, it's the "classic": Bester 1200, Rika 5k, 10k SS, Kitayama 8k
Current favorite: Gessshin 1k, 5k, 10k SS. And then either a Takashima Awasedo (jnat), or the 20k Gesshin. The JKI lineup, I guess?
Both lineups finished off with .25 dupont diamond spray on Dave's leather hone. Oh, and felt pads and blocks used in the regular spots between stones.

Darkhoek
03-03-2011, 06:46 AM
The line-up depends on which knife i am to sharpen. My most frequently used rocks, however, are:
#500 Shapton professional - Ground work all steels
#1000 Shapton professional - Ground work softer steels and SS
#1500 White aluminum oxide (WA) - Ground work Honyaki and other hard steels HRC 62+
#5000 White aluminum oxide (WA) - Finishing work SS, pre finisher kanna and chisels
JNAT Aizu - Medium sharpener SS and Honyaki
JNAT Aoto - Medium+ sharpener all steels, finishing on SS kitchen knives
JNAT Oohira Asagi - Prepolisher all steels, finisher for most kitchen knives
JNAT Nakayama Aka-pin - Prepolisher/ finisher hard steels
JNAT Nakayama Karasu - Finisher all steels
JNAT Takashima Myokakudani - Prepolisher/ finisher all steels, especially Honyaki and harder kasumi style
JNAT Hakka - Finisher Honyaki
JNAT Oohira Shiro Suita - Ultra sharpener (secondary micro bevel and honing) for my hardest steel yanagibas, Honyaki, White#1, Blue#1

In addition i experiment with other stones on different steels in my growing selection of rocks.
See more at http://***********************

DARKHoeK

dreamsignals
03-03-2011, 10:49 AM
quite daunting seeing all this. i'm still rocking my king 1k/6k combo that i got for like $20 on a woodworker sale.

goatgolfer
03-03-2011, 06:18 PM
I am the proud owner of the Dave Martell Junior Knife Sharpening kit. It came complete with DMT XXC, Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000, Arashimaya 6000, and a Naniwa SS 10000. Also included in this fabulous package, was a felt block, felt pad, and leather strop, with base. The only thing missing is a shirt telling me, how smart I am!
Jay

I got the newbie D_Man kit: DMT XXC, Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000, felt pad and magic baby blue spray and..wait for it.. the tojiro pro sink stone holder. No t-shirt but I got the DVD.

aser
03-04-2011, 01:49 AM
dmt xxc (flattening)
peacock 120 (tip repairs)
masahiro 600 (JCK mini stone)
bester 1200
synthetic aoto
arashiyama 6000
wine cork
newspaper

would like to get a proper strop one day.

apicius9
03-04-2011, 05:17 AM
I may be the first one to get banned from here for saying this, but I really don't like sharpening. Some of my knives look pretty but the edges are in pitiful shape. But since I am pretty much done with spending my time looking at knives I need to have - did I mention that I am done buying knives? - I have high intentions to dedicate more time to this. Still a bit grudgingly, buy maybe the appetite comes with eating. As for my stones, I will have whatever Dave sends me in the next box - I keep forgetting, but I trust him - plus a few Shapton glass stones, a Kitayama that has still not been used at least 3 years after buying it, and a set of strops. Well, those I do use to some extent. The easiest at this point would be to just fly Dave and his stones in and go through my blocks for a few days. Gotta buy a lottery ticket this week...

Stefan

Cadillac J
03-04-2011, 09:29 AM
staples: Chosera 600---Bester 1200---Naniwa SS 5000

deburr/strop: felt/1 mic diamond---leather/0.5 mic chromium

shits and giggles: Naniwa SS 10,000

A-cups(flatteners): DMT XXC & XC

K-Fed
03-04-2011, 11:18 AM
For me it really varies for each knife based on steel, use, and the time that I've got to spend doing it. Lately for all my carbon knives I've been using the Bester 1.2k, natural aoto, and an un-identified Jnat that comes in somewhere around the 8-10k range and leaves a pretty nice misty finish. It does have however a few rogue particles in it so it's not perfect. For the stainless as of late i've been using the beston 500, bester 1.2k, rika, and the chosera 5k and for most applications just stop there, but do if the bug bites me, take it through with the kitiyama and JKS10k. and strop on either balsa or leather with either 1/3 micron CrOx, or 1/8 micron CBN.

Citizen Snips
03-04-2011, 11:43 AM
single:
beston 500
bester 1200
rika 5k

double:
beston 500
blue aoto 2k
arashiyama 6k

yanagi:
bester 1200
blue aoto 2k
arashiyama 6k
kitayama 8k

i have a leather strop and a CrO2 loaded felt strop that i have stopped using via jons advice. i figured i would give it a try and found that putting the right microbevel is much more effective in a professional kitchen setting. if i were to shave with my kitchen knife (which i have done with success) i would strop but i find that edge retention is more important than overall sharpness for the first 15 minutes. i do keep the leather strop at work and because it has the magnet on the back i can put it on the work table and strop if i need to. because i dont believe in metal honing steels, this is a great alternative now that my wife has taken my ceramic mac honing rod to work with her.

Darkhoek
03-04-2011, 11:49 AM
I may be the first one to get banned from here for saying this, but I really don't like sharpening. Some of my knives look pretty but the edges are in pitiful shape. But since I am pretty much done with spending my time looking at knives I need to have - did I mention that I am done buying knives? - I have high intentions to dedicate more time to this. Still a bit grudgingly, buy maybe the appetite comes with eating. As for my stones, I will have whatever Dave sends me in the next box - I keep forgetting, but I trust him - plus a few Shapton glass stones, a Kitayama that has still not been used at least 3 years after buying it, and a set of strops. Well, those I do use to some extent. The easiest at this point would be to just fly Dave and his stones in and go through my blocks for a few days. Gotta buy a lottery ticket this week...

Stefan

Haha. I am the exact opposite :) To me sharpening is some kind of a meditation act. Whenever my work in the Norwegian Armed Forces frustrates me and gets my shorts all twisted (almost on a daily basis), I pull out a couple of my stones and a knife or two when I get home and sharpen for half an hour or more, depending on the tightness of the "twist". I go straight in to some kind of a zen-like state and come out a better man and with insanely sharp knives :D I need to buy a couple of inexpensive knives pretty soon so I don't wear down my good ones prematurely.

DarkHoek

tk59
03-04-2011, 03:42 PM
Haha. I am the exact opposite :) To me sharpening is some kind of a meditation act. Whenever my work in the Norwegian Armed Forces frustrates me and gets my shorts all twisted (almost on a daily basis), I pull out a couple of my stones and a knife or two when I get home and sharpen for half an hour or more, depending on the tightness of the "twist". I go straight in to some kind of a zen-like state and come out a better man and with insanely sharp knives :D I need to buy a couple of inexpensive knives pretty soon so I don't wear down my good ones prematurely.

DarkHoek

Now that's something i can relate to!

Adamm
03-04-2011, 06:37 PM
My stones are
Dmt xxc (use for flatening only)
bester 500
bester 1200
arashma 6000
naniwa 10000 superstone

plus leather strops

UglyJoe
03-05-2011, 05:36 PM
Right now I'm using the Beston 500 for rough jobs (flattening, etc). I set bevels with King 1000 and finish with King 6000, then Dave's strop kit (diamond on leather). Oh, and I use felt strop/block between each stone. I like the edges I get a lot from this lineup, but not the polish itself, which probably has just as much to do with my techniques as it does with the stones. Still, I am considering adding a finer stone to the mix, something I hope I can work with to get a nicer looking finish and maybe as a "stone dust" polish for the sides of the knife. I've thought about the Kitayama 8000, but I've read this stone is particularly finicky as regards to the previous stones in the lineup. The other possibility is the Takenoko. I'd like to get a good finishing stone without having to replace my King 1000/6000 stones, at least not right away. What would you guys who have used all these stones do?

deanb
03-05-2011, 06:20 PM
DMT XXC
DMT XC
Shapton Pro 1K, 5K, 8K, and 12K
Various strops

Works fine.

mainaman
03-07-2011, 12:41 AM
600 Chosera
1k Chosera
1k King

Amakusa red and white
Aizu
Hakka
Nakayama Asagi
Shobudani Tomae
Oohira Suita
Oozuku Tomae

Dave Martell
03-07-2011, 12:43 AM
I always enjoy seeing what combinations of stones people are using.

cannibal
03-07-2011, 01:56 AM
bester 1200
rika 5k
chromium oxide charged leather
cork from a lost abbey beer bottle(judgement day) for deburr

i use progressively less and less pressure on the rika until i'm pretty much just using the knife's weight on the stone, then i'll give it a few strops on the rika before switching to the leather strop (picked up leather free from a fabric store, they were getting rid of sample swatches)
I've used a friend's 10k and i get more of a polished edge, but i prefer the bite left from stropping after the rika. maybe i'm doing something wrong on the 10k? what i really like about this setup is that it travels easy.

chazmtb
03-07-2011, 12:31 PM
Beston 500
King 1000
JKS Synthetic Aoto 2000-3000
Kitayama 8000
JKS 10000
.25 micron diamond spray on leather
Unloaded leather.

spaceconvoy
04-04-2011, 02:57 AM
Since we have a Knife Progression (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?579-Knife-Progression) thread, I thought it'd be good to have one on stone progression too.... So, what stone setups have you guys had over the years?

- King 1k
Basic, classic, can't go wrong as a beginner's stone.

- Beston 500
- Synthetic Aoto
Bought on recommendation from forum members, I didn't like either of these. Too hard and too soft, too fast and too slow. At least I learned I don't like muddy stones.

- Sigma Power 1k hard
- (Synthetic Renge)
- (Belgian Blue)
- Arashiyama 6k
Once I got the Sigma Power, I knew I was set for my low-grit stone. I switched out a Synth Renge (too hard and not all that fast) and a Belgian Blue (too hard and way too slow) before settling on an Arashiyama 6k.

- Arashiyama 1k
- Arashiyama 6k
Got tired of soaking (and more importantly drying, which would take almost a week) the Sigma Power, so I tried the Arashiyama 1k on a whim. Worked well, decent combination, but I always thought the jump from 1k to 6k was just slightly too far, and I'm an obsessive minimalist, so...

- GlassStone 2k
- Yellowstone loaded strop
It just works, that's all you can say about the GS. I can be pretty dense at times, and I still hadn't accepted the fact that I don't like too-hard stones either. I guess the allure of splash & go was too tempting that I ignored the warning signs.

Currently:

- SuperStone 2k
- baseless Suehiro Rika
- 1.0u BC loaded strop
I ordered the Rika intending to get another perma-soak stone to compliment it, like maybe a Sigma Power 1k soft. In the meantime, I got a deal on a used SS2k, thinking maybe it would fill the same niche as the GS2k but softer. Now I'm liking it a lot as a single stone followed by the strop, gives a nice toothy edge. Currently debating which to keep.

mainaman
04-06-2011, 12:00 PM
I started with what Cdawg had ,because I was fascinated by the way he sharpenid.
DMT 120, 220, 1.2k , king 6k, Kitayama

After that I got King 1k big brick, King 8k, Naniwa SS 10k, Rikka 5k, shapton 16k glass, chosera 600,1k/3k
When I got into razors all hell came loose on me...
Naniwa SS 5k, SS 12k
Norton 1k, 4/8k

And the inevitable dive in natural stones:
right now I have 27 Natural stones most of them Japanese.

Pensacola Tiger
04-06-2011, 12:13 PM
I started with a Suehiro 1200 and 6000 from Amazon. Added a DMT D8XX for flattening.

Picked up and Edge Pro Apex and some aftermarket stones - Shapton Pro 220, 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k, and 15k, plus Chocera 400, 1k, 5k and 10k.

Then an Omura 150 and Naniwa "green brick" for single-bevel knives.

Moved on to try "splash-and-go" with a set of Naniwa Superstones - 400, 1k, 3k, 5k and 10k.

Dipped my toe into naturals with a Yaganoshima suita (Dave, you'd remember that one), then a Shoubu awasedo, Shoubu akapin and a Shoubudani shiro suita.

Latest acquisition was a pair of Gesshin stones, 1k and 5k, from Jon.

Not to mention strops, pastes and sprays...

aaronsgibson
04-06-2011, 12:16 PM
Started very simple (as you should when you first get into sharpening)

King 1k/6k. Great for babies first intro to this world. Still to this day use the 6k side but soon I am going to have to replace it.

Second was the 2k Green brick. Talk about a beauty. Leaves a hazy almost mirror shine and if you are looking for a good stone for non Japanese knives this would be it.

Last in my small line up is a small 8-10k natural. Can't remember the name but doesn't do that well on SS or such, but the finish it puts on carbon is very very good.

mainaman
04-06-2011, 12:29 PM
I started with a Suehiro 1200 and 6000 from Amazon. Added a DMT D8XX for flattening.

Picked up and Edge Pro Apex and some aftermarket stones - Shapton Pro 220, 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k, and 15k, plus Chocera 400, 1k, 5k and 10k.

Then an Omura 150 and Naniwa "green brick" for single-bevel knives.

Moved on to try "splash-and-go" with a set of Naniwa Superstones - 400, 1k, 3k, 5k and 10k.

Dipped my toe into naturals with a Yaganoshima suita (Dave, you'd remember that one), then a Shoubu awasedo, Shoubu akapin and a Shoubudani shiro suita.

Latest acquisition was a pair of Gesshin stones, 1k and 5k, from Jon.

Not to mention strops, pastes and sprays...by any chance is that yaginoshima from Adam who got it from So?

Pensacola Tiger
04-06-2011, 01:01 PM
by any chance is that yaginoshima from Adam who got it from So?

That's the one. Nice stone, just a little small.

mainaman
04-06-2011, 01:11 PM
That's the one. Nice stone, just a little small.

it is not suita stone, I have similar stone from the same batch I think mine was #3 or #4 it is written on the back.
The grean color is typical fro Tomae strata not suita. Anyway it is a superb stone with great cutting ability for the grit range and very nice finish.
This stone was the reason I asked Max to find a bigger one which lead to him getting me the Yaginoshima he reviewed briefly recently
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVQ4SQ7zxpU&feature=player_embedded
it is the weirdes Jant I have seen so far, ~8k by feel when I shaved off it, but leaves mirror finish on hard steels much like super fine and ultra hard finisher.

Lefty
04-06-2011, 01:20 PM
Who needs a huge stone line-up?
King 1k
800 grit wet/dry (sometimes)
1500 grit wet/dry
2500 grit wet/dry
Strop on the inside, then outside of the yellow-pages, or the 2500 wet/dry.
I would guarantee, for any "typical" stainless j knife, this will give you an absolute razor!

Pensacola Tiger
04-06-2011, 01:24 PM
Here's a pic of the back of mine:

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Misc%20Photos/2cabfa0c.jpg

Adam called it a suita, but whether it is a tomae or suita it is, as you say, a superb stone.

mainaman
04-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Here's a pic of the back of mine:

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Misc%20Photos/2cabfa0c.jpg

Adam called it a suita, but whether it is a tomae or suita it is, as you say, a superb stone.

indeed it is, there is no su in the stone, So misinformed us.

mattrud
04-06-2011, 04:24 PM
first stone was a tiny king 1000/6000 combi

after that I got shaptons first a 1000 then a 5000 both pro line

when I got more confident i purchased a 320 shapton pro

soon after I also got a kitayama and used that as a finisher at times depending on the knife

After that I purchased a Hand American strop and loaded it with chromium, I honestly never fell in love with it. Chromium was a little slick for my taste and the leather soon warped.

This line-up lasted a while and served well, I would also use some king 1000 and 6000 at work that other people owned and left at work.

A while ago I made some big changes,

First was a 1000 bester, 500 beston, and 6000 takenenko, and a strop and felt set from Dave with diamond spray

great line-up and served me well

next came the Rika and an immanishi 10k

after that I picked up a JKS 10k through a trade to play around with

I think that is where I am at right now

so the lineup depending on the knives and sharpening needs are

500 beston, 1000 bester, Rika, Kitayama, JKS/Immanishi, Strop w/ diamond, and felt all in between

but I have been getting in itch for naturals/ some Gesshin stones, but a las the money is not there for those purchases and my current stones are great, plus I rather focus more on my technique.

Miles
04-06-2011, 06:52 PM
DMT xxc/xc
Shapton Glass 500
Shapton Pro 1K
Shapton Pro 2K
Shapton Pro 5k
Naniwa Superstone 10K
Shapton Glass 16K
Stropping w/diamond pastes on MDF followed by leather.
I use the felt block and pads between grits.

Admittedly, the DMT stones and the Shapton 16K don't see as much use as the others. But Shapton stones are still the core of my kit. I've tried some of Chef Jeffrey's stones with great enthusiasm, but for me, the Shaptons still make quick, predictable, and consistent work of anything I throw at them. I just haven't found myself to be all that tempted to try out anything else.

slowtyper
04-06-2011, 07:09 PM
Started very simple (as you should when you first get into sharpening)

King 1k/6k. Great for babies first intro to this world. Still to this day use the 6k side but soon I am going to have to replace it.


Hi,

I've looking to buy a konosuke HD Gyuto soon and a couple stones for keeping it sharp. I don't intend to be buying large amounts of knives in the future. I've read a lot of recommendations for the Beston 1200 and a Rika 5K.

Do you think it is prudent for someone like me to start with a "beginner" 1k/6k like you suggest or would the Beston/Rika combo do just fine? Or, would the King 1/6 do just as well for me to keep for good? I'm looking to buy one set of stones and thats it (well, for the near future anyways).

RRLOVER
04-06-2011, 09:45 PM
I have about 25+ stones,but this is what I am using now.

400 cho
1k cho
Syn Aota
5k cho
10k cho
and every strop option under the sun.

EdipisReks
04-07-2011, 12:10 AM
beston 500, suehiro 800, synthetic blue aoto, kitayama. i rarely put my edges on anything other than the kitayama, anymore. and usually not even that, as i find CrO on balsa works great for edge maintenance. that 500 sure comes in handy for flattening blade roads on single bevel knives, though! i have half a dozen other stones, but they typically stay in a box unless i have a specific use for them.

Eamon Burke
04-07-2011, 01:18 AM
Shaptons! I use the 500 glass, Pro 1k, 2k, 5k. Then I strop on Silicon Carbide, Boron Carbide, and Chromium Oxide. I have a 150 grit Omura, because I can't have a belt sander around. May not be super traditional, but these stones were designed to work together, and they work great together! If I could afford a full set, I would have one! That means my grit sizes, in microns, is 150, 80, 45, 15, 7, 3, 2, 1, .5. I also would like better stones that work up good slurries for traditional blades, but I rarely ever even see those(mine is the only traditional single bevel I ever come into contact with...even my old job only has like 5 or 6).

AnxiousCowboy
06-03-2011, 02:09 AM
Not to mention strops, pastes and sprays...

Why's that sound dirty?

I just found my combo stone broken at work... I only really used the 6000k on my single beveled knives, and although the other side of my combo stone was 1000, I always prefers the feel of a king, and there is a 1000 king in ever kitchen in new york. Looking to replace. I'm sharpening only shirogami on these stones. I like the 1000 king to start a knife after a rough day, it gives me a burr quickly. Looking at kitayama 8000, geshin 5000, or a shapton 4000.... What do you think? I don't know... *** is a glass stone like...?

tk59
06-03-2011, 02:27 AM
I posted on this thread about three months ago and I think I'm settled in. For damaged edges, I start on the Gesshin 400. It works like the Beston 500 but it just feels and sounds great. For most edges, I start on Gesshin 1k, Gesshin 5k and strop on Dave's strop loaded with 0.25 micron diamond. When I really want to get sharp, I go up to 8k SS and then strop. This isn't the fastest set-up for grinding off metal but I can take out a few dry stones, throw some water on them, work for 10 min (on most steels) and get a ridiculous edge. The next morning, the stones are dry and I put them away, good to go. I love this set-up for everything from cheap (but good) carbon, to Hitachi steels in any form (honyaki included), any semi-stainless or conventional stainless. PM steels (zdp-189/sg2) were a bit of a problem for the older style 5k, the way I use it (no-soak) but it's significantly better with the new improved version. If you're into finish, they leave a nice finish somewhere between the rika and SS but closer to the SS, ime.

mattrud
06-03-2011, 03:07 AM
@TK How do you like you gesshin compared to other stones you have used?

dmccurtis
06-03-2011, 03:11 AM
For stainless:

DMT XXC
Beston 500
Bester 1200
Synthetic aoto
Arashiyama 6000
Imanishi 10000
Chromium Oxide

For carbon:

DMT XXC
Beston 500
Bester 1200
Goma aoto
Ohch
Takashima
Chromium Oxide (only for touchups)

I have too many other stones that I've tried, Nakayamas, aotos, Iyotos, Belgian blues, etc. I've found these lineups work best for my knives. I only really have one stainless knife though, so the synthetic lineup doesn't get used often. I would like to try the Gesshin 400. I like, but don't love, the Beston.

Seb
06-03-2011, 03:46 AM
My current four-stone setup is:
1. Sigma Power Select II #220
2. Chocera #400
3. Sigma Power Ceramic (soft type) #1000
4. Sigma Power Jinzo (synthetic) Renge Suita #6000
-- de-burr on felt or newspaper

I am currently going through a no-strop, no ultra-high-grit stone phase.

MadMel
06-03-2011, 03:49 AM
Beston 500,
Bester 2k
Arashiyama 6k
De-burr on newspaper or cardboard

This is prolly gonna be my permanent setup. I'm from the minimalist camp :)

tk59
06-03-2011, 03:50 AM
@TK How do you like you gesshin compared to other stones you have used?

Best coarse stone I've every tried is a Gesshin(?) 500 diamond plate that I lust after but I can't have because I'm still in knife acquisition mode. After that, I used the Beston for a long time until I tried the Gesshin 400. It just feels great, in my opinion. It grinds about the same rate as the Beston. The finish doesn't matter to me at that grit but it's a little nicer looking, maybe. I don't use a ton of pressure. The Gesshin 1k is a pretty much perfect stone. It isn't as fussy and soft (or slow) as a superstone (which I also really like and I don't find all that slow), has a great feel but isn't as fast as a Chosera for example. The newer 5k Gesshin is harder and less muddy than a Rika or SS but still has that nice feel to it and is a little slower than the Rika and quite a bit slower than the Chosera. I guess if I had a pile of pm steel blades to work, I might go with something faster but really, I don't try to completely remove my 1k scratches when I move up to the 5k. If I can go the 8k SS for a few passes and strop a few passes and pass the Salty touch test, I'm satisfied. I highly recommend these stones for kitchen knife edges. I can't wait to see what Jon brings in for an 8-12 k splash n go. I love SS but they gouge too easily unless you cheat and hit the edge only on the backstroke (ie stopping on stone).

Deburring: I'm pretty much burr free after the 5k. Any stragglers come off with stropping. Newspaper works fine but I have some nice strops and I like the result better.

Seb
06-03-2011, 03:58 AM
I just wanna add that, imo, that fad/craze from about two years ago for removing all the scratches and attaining that perfect mirror polish was a dead-end. At one point, the recommended progression included Arashiyama 6K>>Kitayama 8K>>Naniwa SS 10K: nuts to that.

Those mirror bevels are pretty and sexy and all but, for practical purposes, I tend to agree with the current thinking that a good #5 or 6K makes the ideal finishing stone.

MadMel
06-03-2011, 04:01 AM
I thought the Arashiyama and Kitayama are the same stone? But anyways, I can get a nice mirror polish out of my 6k

Seb
06-03-2011, 04:21 AM
I thought the Arashiyama and Kitayama are the same stone? But anyways, I can get a nice mirror polish out of my 6k

It's alleged that the Arashiyama and the Takenoko are one and the same.

stereo.pete
06-03-2011, 10:03 AM
I'm pretty simple with my setup.

DMT XXC (For Flattening)
Shapton Pro 1k
Shapton Pro 2k
Shapton Pro 5k

Booink
06-03-2011, 10:12 AM
A quick question in between: I've just started learning how to sharpen things, but I don't think I'm getting the best out of a Naniwa SS 3000/10000 stone. Is it just me or is the mud non existant / is there a trick to it? Another thing: how do you use a chosera 1000 (+the nagura stone) with it optimally?

watercrawl
06-03-2011, 10:12 AM
500 Beston if needed
One of either the King Hyper 1k or the Bester 1,200
Suehiro Rika
Naniwa 10k Superstone
Felt from Dave for deburring

bieniek
06-03-2011, 10:49 AM
A quick question in between: I've just started learning how to sharpen things, but I don't think I'm getting the best out of a Naniwa SS 3000/10000 stone. Is it just me or is the mud non existant / is there a trick to it? Another thing: how do you use a chosera 1000 (+the nagura stone) with it optimally?

To get the best of Naniwa dont use any pressure at all. Its more of a polishing stone and 10k will leave you a edge feeling like Thai Airways[silky smooth].
Some steels will block the stone up so use that nagura when you feel the knife is sliding on the stone and doesnt leave grey trail behind.

My setup contains now
Tempered 5mm glass sheet and wetpapers for flattening
Noname 240
Bester 700
King 1200
Suehiro 6k
Naniwa SS 3k
Naniwa SS 8k

Deburr with wooden spoon bought at Ikea :D
Stropping with super-ultra-extreme-8mm felt loaded with chromium oxide.
Then back on suehiro and strop on newspaper.

99Limited
06-03-2011, 11:46 AM
A quick question in between: I've just started learning how to sharpen things, but I don't think I'm getting the best out of a Naniwa SS 3000/10000 stone. Is it just me or is the mud non existant / is there a trick to it? Another thing: how do you use a chosera 1000 (+the nagura stone) with it optimally?

If you want to work up some mud pick up a mini diamond stone like the Diaface Moonflex Diamond Stone. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044QJ55M)

tk59
06-03-2011, 12:55 PM
A quick question in between: I've just started learning how to sharpen things, but I don't think I'm getting the best out of a Naniwa SS 3000/10000 stone. Is it just me or is the mud non existant / is there a trick to it? Another thing: how do you use a chosera 1000 (+the nagura stone) with it optimally?

+1 to the diamond "nagura" Jon has a like to the ones he uses on his website. I think it's the same one.

As for mud, I can't say I've had this problem on the 3k or the 10k. How do you prep your stone? Perhaps, flatten it right before you use it and don't rinse the stone prior to use.

AnxiousCowboy
06-04-2011, 11:08 AM
Any opinions on a bester 2k? Looking for something to go beforre a rika with white steel knives

MadMel
06-04-2011, 11:15 AM
Any opinions on a bester 2k? Looking for something to go beforre a rika with white steel knives

I have a bester 2k and it does pretty good on my Hiromoto AS. Pretty fast I'd say.

bieniek
06-06-2011, 01:23 PM
+1 to the diamond "nagura" Jon has a like to the ones he uses on his website. I think it's the same one.

As for mud, I can't say I've had this problem on the 3k or the 10k. How do you prep your stone? Perhaps, flatten it right before you use it and don't rinse the stone prior to use.

Or I didnt understood the question or missed something.
I dont really see point in paying 20 bucks for nagura, my fake cerax for 4 bucks works pretty well. I cannot expect it though to produce me tons of mud on 8k ceramic stone. But what it does is enough

99Limited
06-06-2011, 01:31 PM
Or I didnt understood the question or missed something.
I dont really see point in paying 20 bucks for nagura, my fake cerax for 4 bucks works pretty well. I cannot expect it though to produce me tons of mud on 8k ceramic stone. But what it does is enough

The side benefit of a diamond nagura is that it will work up some mud. The primary purpose is to smooth out the scratches left by the DMT XXC when flattening the stone.

bieniek
06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
OK, so thats for those who have to flatten high-gritted SS and so much that its worth using XXC.

JohnnyChance
06-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Chosera 400 (major repair/thinning only)
Bester 1200
Rika 5k
Gesshin 5000 on the way from Jon

Ordo
06-06-2011, 03:39 PM
Bestone 500
Bester 1200
SS 1000
SS 5000
Local natural stone about 500-600.
Local natural stone about 800-1000.
Home made balsa strop on Viraró wood.
Home made leather strop on glass.
Home made leather strop on Anchico wood (work in progress).


I need a Suheiro holder from Jon. May be next month.

tk59
06-06-2011, 04:13 PM
OK, so thats for those who have to flatten high-gritted SS and so much that its worth using XXC.

Actually, I have a different cheapie diamond nagura that works fine. I use it to grind down the corners and edges of my finishing stones, if I want instant mud.

Eamon Burke
06-06-2011, 04:41 PM
Hand Sharpening progression:

Ohmura 120
Shapton Glass 500
Shapton Pros, 1k, 2k, 5k (the shaptons really do turn out great results when used together...wish I had the money for a full set)
Homemade strops cut to stone-size made with Tandy leathers on Balsa backs:
Textured leather 3 micron Boron Carbide
Bare Balsa 1 micron SiC
Smooth Leather .5 micron CrO

I deburr on balsa scraps.

mateo
06-06-2011, 05:08 PM
Super basic here...

DMT XC for flattening, major repair (I'm on my third tip on the paring knife...)

Bester 700
King Combo 1200/8000
Felt block and pad for deburring
Leather strop with 0.5 micron diamond spray

I'm considering changing it up with a Bester 1200 and something else in the 6k range as my finishing stone... the King combo is pretty small compared to the Bester.

Ichi
06-06-2011, 08:09 PM
Right now sharpen on the side walk and finish on the curb ! :slaphead: Carborundum side walk, same same. Finish on king 1000.
I have two new stones picked out, trying to decide on the medium stone.:scratchhead:

JohnnyChance
06-07-2011, 12:11 AM
Right now sharpen on the side walk and finish on the curb ! :slaphead: Carborundum side walk, same same. Finish on king 1000.
I have two new stones picked out, trying to decide on the medium stone.:scratchhead:

Most of the time I start with a Bester 1200, but about a quarter of the time I start with a Rika 5k! You should be able to start from the King and go up from there. What other stones are you looking at?

maxim
06-07-2011, 08:42 AM
Nice thread !
Many more begin to use naturals !! Nice :wink:

Here is mine

Atoma 140
Bestone 500
Bester 1000

Nats:
Aoto
Hakka
Atagoyama/Ohira Range suita



Dave you did not post yours !! :mad3:

Ichi
06-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Most of the time I start with a Bester 1200, but about a quarter of the time I start with a Rika 5k! You should be able to start from the King and go up from there. What other stones are you looking at?
I am looking at a Chosera 400 and a natural finishing. To fill that gap I was pondering the fake aoto and kitayama.
The king is getting too thin and afraid it will break.

cowboyardee
06-08-2011, 01:13 AM
My arsenal
-DMT XXC - I just use it for flattening

-Nameless 240/1k stone - actually not bad for the price - cuts nice and fast, decent finish but is dishes quickly and is now badly worn

-Beston 500 - I use it when I have to. Prefer to start with the 800 king stone if I don't need major steel removal. The long soak time keeps me away.

-King 800/4k - After a long time assuming I'd eventually replace the 800, I've accepted that it just works for me; the 4k on the other hand is awful and glazes over much easier than any other stone I've used.

-'Fine' diamond stone - used as a nagura sometimes

-1k SS - Not my favorite SS. Doesn't cut quite fast enough.

-2k SS - For some reason, I like this stone much better. I start a lot of touch ups with this stone

-5k SS - Another great stone

-6k Suehiro - Not as bad as you might expect. Can glaze over a bit, and is easy to gouge, but not bad. Still I don't use it much anymore

-8k SS - I sometimes think this stone is a bit underrated. My usual finishing stone

-12k SS - lent out currently. Nice fine stone, but even if I had it back, I'm not sure I'd often go above the 8k stone.

JohnnyChance
06-08-2011, 01:29 AM
I am looking at a Chosera 400 and a natural finishing. To fill that gap I was pondering the fake aoto and kitayama.
The king is getting too thin and afraid it will break.

If you get a substrate that wont rot (cedar, plastic, marble if you want haha) that is sturdy and flat, glue the king to it and only use one side. Get you some more life out of it. May not be worth it for a stone as cheap as a King 1000, but it would work for other more expensive stones as well.

You could go Chosera 400, King 1000, Blue Synthetic Aoto to Kitayama/Takenoko. The Kitayama 8k and Takenoko 6k are the same stone. But I wouldn't jump from the King all the way to the Kitayama. People really like the blue aoto and the kitayama so those sounds like good choices. Don't know about naturals though, looking for my first myself.

tk59
06-08-2011, 02:20 AM
You could go Chosera 400, King 1000, Blue Synthetic Aoto to Kitayama/Takenoko. The Kitayama 8k and Takenoko 6k are the same stone. But I wouldn't jump from the King all the way to the Kitayama. People really like the blue aoto and the kitayama so those sounds like good choices. Don't know about naturals though, looking for my first myself.

I have a slightly different take on this one. I think the Kit would be redundant to the J-nat finisher. I'd go with a 3-5k stone after the King and go straight to the finisher. A lot of the ones I've been looking at are around 6-8k and then go up from there by working the mud.

tk59
06-08-2011, 02:24 AM
-8k SS - I sometimes think this stone is a bit underrated. My usual finishing stone

-12k SS - lent out currently. Nice fine stone, but even if I had it back, I'm not sure I'd often go above the 8k stone.

I love my 8k SS. I also like the 12k but what's interesting is I don't really seem to get a finer edge with the 12k, at least not noticeably. Oddly, I haven't really tried to see a difference under magnification...

Dave Martell
06-08-2011, 02:51 AM
The Kitayama 8k and Takenoko 6k are the same stone.

It's the Takenoko 8k is the same as Arashiyama 6k

cowboyardee
06-08-2011, 02:59 AM
I love my 8k SS. I also like the 12k but what's interesting is I don't really seem to get a finer edge with the 12k, at least not noticeably. Oddly, I haven't really tried to see a difference under magnification...

Right there with ya. It could just be an issue where I'm not skilled enough to use the 12k to full effect, but on the other hand I can get a pretty comfortable shave off of the 8k with a newspaper stropping afterward, so at least in the kitchen I'm not sure what I'd be gaining by regularly finishing with a finer stone.

To me, that 8k SS is nearly ideal - as fine as I seem to get any benefits from, no soak, still aggressive enough to transition from most mid grit stones.

tk59
06-08-2011, 03:05 AM
Right there with ya. It could just be an issue where I'm not skilled enough to use the 12k to full effect, but on the other hand I can get a pretty comfortable shave off of the 8k with a newspaper stropping afterward, so at least in the kitchen I'm not sure what I'd be gaining by regularly finishing with a finer stone.

To me, that 8k SS is nearly ideal - as fine as I seem to get any benefits from, no soak, still aggressive enough to transition from most mid grit stones.

Thanks! I am in full agreement here.

JohnnyChance
06-08-2011, 03:13 AM
It's the Takenoko 8k is the same as Arashiyama 6k

Whoops! Got them all jumbled up in my brain. Must be time for bed.

Viktor
06-08-2011, 07:17 AM
DMT XXC
Beston 500
Bester 1200
Suehiro Rika 5000
Kitayama 8000
Japanese whetstone #10000 - private brand
Felt and leather bench strops

Benuser
06-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Please post what your favorite stones are that you're using today.
Choseras 400, 800, 2K, 5K, leather with chromium oxide. Stropping between each stone on the next one.

jwpark
06-08-2011, 05:27 PM
DMT XXC
DMT C
Beston 500
Sigma Power 1000 (love this stone, cuts way faster than a Bester, with par finish)
Naniwa Chocera 5000 (a little on the soft side, awesome polish and speed)
Sigam Power 10k
Felt and chromium charged leather.

Jay

Ichi
06-12-2011, 04:24 PM
If you get a substrate that wont rot (cedar, plastic, marble if you want haha) that is sturdy and flat, glue the king to it and only use one side. Get you some more life out of it. May not be worth it for a stone as cheap as a King 1000, but it would work for other more expensive stones as well.

You could go Chosera 400, King 1000, Blue Synthetic Aoto to Kitayama/Takenoko. The Kitayama 8k and Takenoko 6k are the same stone. But I wouldn't jump from the King all the way to the Kitayama. People really like the blue aoto and the kitayama so those sounds like good choices. Don't know about naturals though, looking for my first myself.
I have 2x4 I can use :thumbsup2: I am going with Chosera 400, blue aoto (hope it does not crack right away) and the kitayama. Then play with the naturals.:beer:

EdipisReks
06-12-2011, 07:54 PM
i've changed thing slightly:

Beston 500
Suehiro 800
Blue synthetic Aoto with little mud
Super cheap but great Masahiro 3000
Blue synthetic aoto with mud
Suehiro 6000
Naniwa 10k SS
Kitayama 8k/12k

then i strop
.5 CrO on balsa
.25 diamond on balsa
scant .25 on split grain leather
bare split grain leather

this is a full sharpening from dull, i try to not touch stones, as much as possible. the main reason i use that Masahiro 3000 is that it makes it really easy to see if i have found a good bevel going to the finer stones. just a few passes on it does it. i used to go with as few stones as possible, but i've gone back to lots of stones.

sashae
06-13-2011, 11:25 PM
I primarily use an Edge Pro Apex with Chosera 400/1000/3000/6000/10000, but I just got my first Japanese natural stone, a Nakayama asagi, and sharpened a Watanabe santoku and a Tanaka Aogami #1 banno-funayakai bocho... and man, they're terrifying. Fun stuff.

For those that sample shaving abilities on their arms, does having mangy patches get to you? Cause man, I'm feelin a bit shorn.

AnxiousCowboy
06-14-2011, 12:06 AM
Got my bester 2k and suehiro 5k annnd used them for the first time today. The bester is great and god damn the rika is terrific. It is almost as if its made for my white steel. I highly recommend this combo for anyone with similar knives. The rika puts a great finish on the knife and I can even raise a burr no probllem with it... I didn't expect to since I couldn't with the king 6k

Knifefan
06-14-2011, 09:12 AM
SS 240
Chosera 400, 1000, 3000, 10000
Loaded felt strop
Leather strop

AnxiousCowboy
06-14-2011, 11:52 AM
Does anyone permasoak their besters or rikas?

mattrud
06-14-2011, 12:29 PM
my 1200 and 500 are perma soak, the rika I do not perma soak.

JBroida
06-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Does anyone permasoak their besters or rikas?

yup

DwarvenChef
06-14-2011, 10:10 PM
I'll assume we are talking about kitchen knife line up :p

I'm set up now for all synthetics with my western knives.

DMT 320 (now pretty much worn out :p )
Shapton GS 1k
Shapton GS 3k
Norton 4/8k (4k side pretty much gone)

I really haven't had the need to get farther on my kitchen knives. I want to get Chosera stones someday but not till my current ones wear out.


I've been testing out naturals on my traditional single bevels and have been happy with the results so far. However most of the stones I have are to small for kitchen knives lol.

TamanegiKin
06-14-2011, 10:48 PM
-king 800
-Gesshin 2K
-Gesshin 5K
-Chunk O' leather

I use a king 1.2K on my single bevels sometimes if I want more contrast. The Gesshin leaves a lighter haze finish where my king 1200 leaves a much darker finish...Although I'm fairly new to this so I may be misenterpreting how I'm achieving these different results.

DwarvenChef
06-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I've also used the King 1200 to get a really dark cantrast in the iron clad. After that I run it over the Ohira tomae to shine up the cladding a bit more.

Eamon Burke
06-15-2011, 01:21 AM
I really haven't had the need to get farther on my kitchen knives.

That's cause there is no need! Often a kitchen knife with a straight-razor polish on it won't cut worth a crap. Maybe on a veggie cleaver, but that's about it.

JohnnyChance
06-15-2011, 01:25 AM
Does anyone permasoak their besters or rikas?

I permasoak my bester 1200 and rika 5k. when I start sharpening I add the gesshin 5k to the tub.

BTW Jon, I have only used the Gesshin a few times, but I am really enjoying it so far. Great finish for line knives.

JBroida
06-15-2011, 01:37 AM
I permasoak my bester 1200 and rika 5k. when I start sharpening I add the gesshin 5k to the tub.

BTW Jon, I have only used the Gesshin a few times, but I am really enjoying it so far. Great finish for line knives.

yeah... thats pretty much the perfect way to deal with most splash and go stones... a few minutes soak makes a huge difference in speed and feel

glad you're liking the stone

heirkb
06-15-2011, 02:28 AM
This is my newbie set up for my newbie sharpening:

*Gesshin 400 - based on testing a bunch of stones for a few minutes each at Jon's, this one felt the nicest of the coarser stones. Except for one stone that none of us will ever get, lol.
*Gesshin 2000 - cuts pretty damn fast for how smooth it is (also, smooth does not mean slippery). Feels much nicer than the King 1k that it replaced.
*One of two naturals, which are around 6k (based on testing on razors)
*Atagoyama from Maksim - super smooth, fast cutting stone. Pretty sweet.

I just like using naturals, because I like how they look, smell, and feel. It might have been better for a newbie to go with synthetics, but oh well. I'm liking the naturals. I did the same thing with straight razors.

JohnnyChance
06-15-2011, 02:31 AM
The gesshin 2k cuts fast enough to start on most times? I would love another splash and go to replace my bester 1200, that way i wouldnt have to the dry, pack, carry, soak, use, dry, pack, carry routine when I bring my stones to work. Problem is when other people use my stones and their knives are way shittier, they might need a sub 1000 stone to start on.

JBroida
06-15-2011, 02:43 AM
the 400 and 2k are both soakers

heirkb
06-15-2011, 02:45 AM
I don't have much experience sharpening knives or extensive experience sharpening knives with different stones, so take what I say with that in mind. That said, I really think the Gesshin 2k is fast. You see a ton of black almost immediately even if you sharpen with just medium pressure. It's kinda like the Bester 1200 (which I've only used for a few minutes) in terms of speed, but it feels less gritty. It is not, however, splash and go. Jon recommends at least a 30 minute soak, I think. Oh, Jon beat me to that part.

JohnnyChance
06-15-2011, 02:51 AM
Oh bummer. I knew some Gesshins were soakers, couldnt remember which. Thanks for the info.

heirkb
06-15-2011, 02:56 AM
1k and 5k are splash and go. I tried the 1k for a few minutes, too. Also pretty fast, but less smooth than the 2k. Finish on the one knife I used was similar to the Bester 1200 finish. Less refined than the Gesshin 2k.

slowtyper
06-15-2011, 11:41 AM
Is it better to permasoak or not permasoak bester 1200? Or does it not make a difference as long a I soak it long enough if not permasoak. How many more times can I say soak? soak soak soak

JohnnyChance
06-15-2011, 12:10 PM
I permasoak it, or if I have previously dried it out, I let it soak for a day or so before using it. I just figure I need to sharpen soon so I let it start soaking and usually get around to using it the next day. When I dry mine and bring it to work, and then soak it for only an hour before using it, it dries out real quick while sharpening. If you know you have to sharpen tomorrow, start soaking it before you go to bed and then use it the next day.

JBroida
06-15-2011, 01:01 PM
Is it better to permasoak or not permasoak bester 1200? Or does it not make a difference as long a I soak it long enough if not permasoak. How many more times can I say soak? soak soak soak

permasoaking it is a convenience issue... its not necessary though. Really, you could get away with only soaking it for about 10 minutes if you really wanted. I've found that around 30 or so works best. If it dries out too quickly, soak longer next time. Also, you can just be generous with the water you splash on it as you work.

SpikeC
06-15-2011, 03:04 PM
Why would one need to dry the stone in order to transport it? Isn't that what ziplok bags are for?

Leo Barr
04-21-2014, 02:53 PM
I am having problems maintaining the same finish on the Kireha on several of my knives both Shapton Glass & Choseras seem to leave a more polished or brushed look rather than the sort of matt look they originally had ; I have tried using a Chosera 600 but the look is not what I want . What is the best brand of stone for this effect?
I have a Yanagi , a Deba and a couple of Takedas and I can get them very sharp with the right amount of toothy - ness .
Would King , Bester Rika or Gesshin be the best for giving this sort of smoky matt effect and what grit should it be ?
I am thinking that 1000 grit is the right grit to use.

Birnando
04-21-2014, 03:42 PM
I use a few different progressions really.

It is either:
JNS 400
400 Suehiro Gokumyo Debado
2K Suehiro Gokumyo Debado
6K Suehiro Gokumyo Debado
13K Sigma Select II

Or:
A full Shapton pro progression

Or:
Some form of Natural progression, say a Red Aoto, Hakka Renge and a Nakayama Kiita.

Or any combo that tickles my fancy.
I love honing!
Be it straights, folders or fixed blades:)

labor of love
04-21-2014, 03:54 PM
right now i really like gesshin 400 to gesshin 4k for gyutos.

jaybett
04-21-2014, 07:00 PM
I am having problems maintaining the same finish on the Kireha on several of my knives both Shapton Glass & Choseras seem to leave a more polished or brushed look rather than the sort of matt look they originally had ; I have tried using a Chosera 600 but the look is not what I want . What is the best brand of stone for this effect?
I have a Yanagi , a Deba and a couple of Takedas and I can get them very sharp with the right amount of toothy - ness .
Would King , Bester Rika or Gesshin be the best for giving this sort of smoky matt effect and what grit should it be ?
I am thinking that 1000 grit is the right grit to use.

Every sharpener has their own technique, to create a kasumi finish, while they will share general information, the specifics are usually kept confidential. Dave a vendor on this site, uses the King 800 as a starting point. Jon with Japanese Knife Imports, or Maxim with Japanese Natural Stones, will recommend stones from their line ups, and provide tips on how to achieve a kasumi finish.

Jay

Pensacola Tiger
04-21-2014, 07:52 PM
I am having problems maintaining the same finish on the Kireha on several of my knives both Shapton Glass & Choseras seem to leave a more polished or brushed look rather than the sort of matt look they originally had ; I have tried using a Chosera 600 but the look is not what I want . What is the best brand of stone for this effect?
I have a Yanagi , a Deba and a couple of Takedas and I can get them very sharp with the right amount of toothy - ness .
Would King , Bester Rika or Gesshin be the best for giving this sort of smoky matt effect and what grit should it be ?
I am thinking that 1000 grit is the right grit to use.

Get a King 800, as Dave Martell recommends.

It will leave a matte finish on the blade road with good contrast between the hagane and jigane that is probably what you are looking for.

MowgFace
04-21-2014, 08:10 PM
I hope Theory doesnt mind me posting this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqe71SKhajI&feature=share&list=UUY7LzKnt-Q59iQz01e10rnw

Pretty sweet little video on single bevel sharpening, touches on "kasumi" finishes. His stone progression, or softer/muddier stones in general, lend(s) well to this type of finish.

Mowgs

ThEoRy
04-21-2014, 09:58 PM
Ah geez I just got sucked into watching my own vid. lol I just hope the pro sharpeners, Dave Jon etc approve the techniques employed therein.

Leo Barr
04-22-2014, 03:35 AM
Thank you Pensacola Tiger this was one of the makes I was considering is this a stone that can be perma-soaked as well?

keithsaltydog
04-22-2014, 06:59 AM
Sharpen a lot of Stainless for others. Thinning & minor repair Atoma plates. Use a Gesshin 1K extra large that I keep at the school for most sharpening lessons. Wearing out my smaller stones doing that 2K gesshin, 1200 Bester so now using larger stone.

My carbons mostly 2K Shapton Pro spash & go for touchups. 4K Gesshin, newspaper, leather

Single Bevels 8K Gesshin or Kitayama

Muddy stones for Kasumi mist

Matus
04-22-2014, 12:15 PM
I have 'just' one :) stone sharpening setup - Gesshin 400, 2000 and 6000. These all 3 are really nice, but the 2000 really stands out for me. The cutting speed, resistance to dishing and edge it leaves makes it one of the best stones I have ever used.

keithsaltydog
04-22-2014, 03:23 PM
I have 'just' one :) stone sharpening setup - Gesshin 400, 2000 and 6000. These all 3 are really nice, but the 2000 really stands out for me. The cutting speed, resistance to dishing and edge it leaves makes it one of the best stones I have ever used.

I like that stone too:)

jgraeff
04-22-2014, 10:10 PM
I have two set ups one natural and one synthetic

Gesshin 400

Gesshin 2k

Gesshin 4k

Binsu

Red aoto

Takashima

I use different combos for different steel. Gesshin 2k Is basically my bevel setter and starter stone.

Gesshin 4k cuts super fast and leaves a great edge.

For a toothier bite I use the red aoto

And for a superfine toothy edge takashima followed by diamond spray.

panda
04-23-2014, 02:14 AM
stainless: splash n go synthetics
carbon: jnats

erikz
04-23-2014, 04:07 AM
I use this setup:

Atoma 140 for flattening
Beston 500
Shapton Pro 1k
Shapton Pro 5k
Shapton Pro 8k

There is going to be a 2k-ish stone added, as the person I ordered the Shaptons from accidentally sent me the 8k instead of the 2k (they have almost the same colour).

labor of love
04-23-2014, 04:10 AM
I use this setup:

Atoma 140 for flattening
Beston 500
Shapton Pro 1k
Shapton Pro 5k
Shapton Pro 8k

There is going to be a 2k-ish stone added, as the person I ordered the Shaptons from accidentally sent me the 8k instead of the 2k (they have almost the same colour).
get the gesshin 2k, its worth it.

erikz
04-23-2014, 04:52 AM
get the gesshin 2k, its worth it.
It does sound good because of all the reviews, but in the end the stone will cost me at least $180 (including import taxes, customs taxes, luxury duty and postage). Thats a bit too steep for me.

I might go for the JNS Matukusuyama or a Bester 2000 instead.

Matus
04-23-2014, 08:08 AM
I see your point with all the taxes, Eric. Just want to point out that the JNS Matukusuyama is probably going to a whole different animal than Gesshin 2000. The Gesshin is on the hard side and dishes very little, while the Matukusuyama is supposed to be muddy stone to get uniform finish on wide bevel knives.

Just pointing out the obvious ...

erikz
04-23-2014, 08:34 AM
I see your point with all the taxes, Eric. Just want to point out that the JNS Matukusuyama is probably going to a whole different animal than Gesshin 2000. The Gesshin is on the hard side and dishes very little, while the Matukusuyama is supposed to be muddy stone to get uniform finish on wide bevel knives.

Just pointing out the obvious ...
Thanks for pointing this out Matus, I haven't been researching a 2k stone intensively, with your comment I see I'd better look for something different than the Matukusuyama. I will look for other options beside the Bester 2000 before deciding what to do. The Gesshin 2000 might still be an option, but at the moment it's just to much money for a single 2k stone.

schanop
04-23-2014, 09:12 AM
Maxim has two 3k stones. The big red one is soft and muddy, the blue/white one is harder, probably a lot harder.

erikz
04-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Maxim has two 3k stones. The big red one is soft and muddy, the blue/white one is harder, probably a lot harder.
The blue/white one was the one I was referring to earlier. I should have clarified this in my earlier post. So that JNS Aoto might still be in the picture then. The red JNS Aoto is out of the picture.

MowgFace
04-23-2014, 12:07 PM
The JNS Aoto (blue/white) is quite hard. Pretty similar (in hardness) to Gesshin 5000 IIRC.

Ruso
04-23-2014, 12:59 PM
The progression will depend on the knife and the final edge requirements but my favorite would be:
Naniwa Chosera 800
Gesshin 2000
Naniwa SS 5K
and/or
Beston 8000

panda
04-23-2014, 02:04 PM
you could be the first one to try and report back on this one!
http://fine-tools.com/juuma-stones.html

if i was in need of a synthetic 2k id get one myself.

erikz
04-23-2014, 02:28 PM
Sounds interesting panda, but im not much of a pioneer when it comes to this stuff. Ill wait for a review first :)

divsec
04-23-2014, 03:18 PM
Hi I'm new forgive me.

I am experimenting with German "sandpaper" Starcke with grits 1000, 1500, 2000, and 5000.

I have mounted then on cork floor tiles and work on a ceramic tile. Please tell me this is not the worse thing I could do.

icanhaschzbrgr
04-23-2014, 03:36 PM
I am experimenting with German "sandpaper" Starcke with grits 1000, 1500, 2000, and 5000.
I have mounted then on cork floor tiles and work on a ceramic tile. Please tell me this is not the worse thing I could do.
If you end up with sharp knife then why not?
Whetstones aren't the only way to sharpen knives (though… probably one of the most popular on KKF)

riba
04-23-2014, 03:54 PM
Sounds interesting panda, but im not much of a pioneer when it comes to this stuff. Ill wait for a review first :)

just send me a pm if you wanna try a chosera 3k (but it isn't a 2k ;) )

erikz
04-23-2014, 04:15 PM
Thanks for the offer Riba!

Dardeau
04-23-2014, 08:26 PM
Yesterday I used DMT coarse, ikarashi, red aoto, and takashima up to various levels on a few knives.
It was my first time incorporating the dmt and the ikarashi into the lineup. The DMT to the ikarashi was fine on the smaller beveled knives, and put a great toothy edge on my EDC, but cleaning up the DMT scratches on wide and single bevels took a long time. I really liked the pattern and contrast on the ikarashi so I need to find a stone to go between or that leaves a less aggressive pattern than the dmt. Splash and go would be nice, I really enjoyed the no soaking aspect of yesterday. JNS 300? Gesshin 600? Chosera? Opinions welcome!

daveb
04-23-2014, 11:59 PM
D, I'm trying a couple stones to have as a portable lineup, spash and go, shake and dry. My first S&G is a JNS 300. Damn I like it, even head to head with soakers I prefer the feel, feedback of the JNS to the to that of the Bestor 500, it's about a wash with the G400. Shows some wear but not nearly what I expected. I've a full set of DMTs from my hunting knives, have used on German stainless but can't say I enjoyed any part of it.

labor of love
04-24-2014, 12:22 AM
Yesterday I used DMT coarse, ikarashi, red aoto, and takashima up to various levels on a few knives.
It was my first time incorporating the dmt and the ikarashi into the lineup. The DMT to the ikarashi was fine on the smaller beveled knives, and put a great toothy edge on my EDC, but cleaning up the DMT scratches on wide and single bevels took a long time. I really liked the pattern and contrast on the ikarashi so I need to find a stone to go between or that leaves a less aggressive pattern than the dmt. Splash and go would be nice, I really enjoyed the no soaking aspect of yesterday. JNS 300? Gesshin 600? Chosera? Opinions welcome!
do you not already have a gesshin 400? gesshin 400 and one other "secret" low grit stone are my fave starting stones, gess 600 is really good too. chosera 400 the best feedback ever but will cut alittle slower than both gesh 400 and 600. pm me if you want to loan something.

erikz
04-24-2014, 02:24 AM
Yesterday I used DMT coarse, ikarashi, red aoto, and takashima up to various levels on a few knives.
It was my first time incorporating the dmt and the ikarashi into the lineup. The DMT to the ikarashi was fine on the smaller beveled knives, and put a great toothy edge on my EDC, but cleaning up the DMT scratches on wide and single bevels took a long time. I really liked the pattern and contrast on the ikarashi so I need to find a stone to go between or that leaves a less aggressive pattern than the dmt. Splash and go would be nice, I really enjoyed the no soaking aspect of yesterday. JNS 300? Gesshin 600? Chosera? Opinions welcome!
A Beston 500 permasoaked works very well and quickly removes diamond plate scratches. I use it as progression from my Atoma 140.

panda
04-24-2014, 02:55 AM
dardeau - i used a gessh 600 to ikarashi for a bit, good fast stone. i've since switched to a fancy 600 that feels much nicer, but not nearly as fast and is a soaker. i only use the gessh on stainless now at work. i've tried a jns 300, it was good but didn't feel it was worth its price. chosera 400 is the best feeling low grit, but it's rather slow.

banjo1071
04-24-2014, 04:29 AM
Hi i use

Shapton glass 500 (if nessecary)
Shapton pro 1000
Blue Aoto
Yaginoshima/Oohira/Hideriyama/Takashima/Shinden Sunita mid grit jnat (depending on mood/steel)
Hakka Namito/Fakeyama (japan@home)/Nakayama/Shobu as finisher (if needed/wanted)..

Greets Benjamin

Dardeau
04-24-2014, 08:41 AM
I actually have the gesshin soaking now to give it a go. I know that it will work great, but it does take some time, and it dishes pretty badly. The splash and go makes it so much easier to come home and bang out a knife after work.

labor of love
04-25-2014, 02:12 AM
I actually have the gesshin soaking now to give it a go. I know that it will work great, but it does take some time, and it dishes pretty badly. The splash and go makes it so much easier to come home and bang out a knife after work.

just curious, which gesshin are you talking about? i dont really think any of the lower grit gesshin stones really dish fast. my gesh 4k dishes pretty quick, but its worth it because the edge is so awesome coming off that stone.

Dardeau
04-25-2014, 08:42 AM
The 400 that I have feels like it dishes pretty quickly to me, about on par with a Beston. Maybe if I'm not using it to remove significant metal, but just to remove DMT scratches, it won't seem to dish as much.

Ruso
04-25-2014, 12:49 PM
just curious, which gesshin are you talking about? i dont really think any of the lower grit gesshin stones really dish fast. my gesh 4k dishes pretty quick, but its worth it because the edge is so awesome coming off that stone.

Gesshin 220 dishes rather quickly for example. Too quickly for my liking. It is still a good stone though.

CoqaVin
04-25-2014, 12:51 PM
Ok here is a question...What are some people opinions and thoughts on synthetic lower grit stones...I am a natural guy but there is not much below 1000 of my liking...so what is your favorite stone that is >1000 grit?

panda
04-25-2014, 06:31 PM
for low grits i'm afraid dishing is a necessary evil if you want speed and feedback. dishing i can deal with, it's clogging that drives me mad.

Leo Barr
04-25-2014, 07:48 PM
I use a mix of stones and diamond plates I am still learning .
I have Um 24 grit
Um 60 grit
Um. 150 grit
Chosera 600 grit
Chosera 1000 grit
******** bamboo 1000 grit
Shapton glass 1000grit
Chosera 3000 grit
Shapton glass 4000 grit
*** 5000 grit

Shapton 8k & 16 k
Chosera 10k the 8 - 16 k I only use for razors or for blades that I want shaving sharp

I have a King 800 on order for a kasumi finish my techniques and choice of finishing grits have changed over a year originally I was using very high grits and then stropping on leather and balsa wood now I strop on either 1k or 5k max the fine grits are for straight razors now .
I look upon my variety of stones as a justifiable cost for learning I have a feeling that the King 800 grit stone is going to see a lot of use on my Takedas and knives with a kasumi finish I have an Honyaki Nakira that I will refine on the higher grits .
I have a selection of different makes simple because I am still assessing them I found the Bamboo stone wore extremely quickly although it makes a good slurry which is why I then went to Shapton Glass for longevity then I had to try Choseras since they seem to be a favorite all the stones I have work well but the King I have ordered is a super size 800 and will restore the kasumi finish I have lost on some knives .
I have not really made up my mind which are the best stones that I have no doubt there will be others that I shall try as I wear out my stones the Geshin sounds interesting although I think the King stones could be the answer.
I have sharpened quite a lot of knives on my stones but my techniques are still evolving so until I decide that the technique has evolved enough to maintain it I cannot really decide which stones are most suited .
I normally try to use the stones at least twice a week the first month I started I would use them every day I think now I have more or less found my technique and geometry for most knives so now it is more of a question of honing the technique then I will have a better idea of which stone perform best .
I have picked up techniques through You Tube since I do not know anyone here in Mallorca that uses stones or if they do are prepared to exchange techniques so I sort of justify the cost of the stones against learning since I know of people that have attended courses where as mine is based on You Tube having favored Jon of Japanese Knife Imports , Korin and Murray Carter ; although much of it seems to me about training the body and eye which comes through practice.
I am quite happy with my results I know I have a way to go but I manage to get good edges but I know there is further to go and I judge my sharpening on my poorest results rather than my best.